Serak Warriors thinks that the first captain gets dicked over in most 5v5 pugs. Considering that the majority of number lottery winners choose to defer, should we consider a new draft order?
The current draft order is: X-Z-Z-X-X-Z-Z-X
Proposed new order is: X-Z-Z-X-Z-X-X-Z
In the current system the first captain gets 3 of the top 5 but also gets last pick. In the proposed system the 2nd captain gets the 5th pick but also the very last pick. So he also gets the 3 of the top 5 players. Is the proposed pick order more fair? Is the current draft order unfair to the first captain in some sort of a way? Discuss.
If you think of it in terms of four rounds of 2 picks, in the current way the first captain picks first in the 1st round, second in the 2nd round, first in the 3rd round, then last in the 4th round.
In the proposed order the first captain picks first in the 1st round, second in the 2nd round, second in the 3rd round, and first in the 4th round. Is the value of not having the worst player in the pug worth losing the first pick in the third round?
Here are three interesting ideas:
(1.) If the number winner chooses to defer, the first captain (loser) gets to choose one of the two draft orders.
(2.) Number loser gets to choose from one of the two draft orders regardless if the winner goes first or defers.
(3.) First captain gets to choose the draft order regardless of who won or lost?
Maybe Option (1) is our best bet.
DT are too shy to come out and face the big boys, so they smurf. Lol Lol
I play against other [DT] players in pugs all the time. You just might not see it because you don't recognize the smurfs or can't discern their identities.
That is the whole point. You being a DT know exactly who the DT players are and have a benefit from knowing that. That gives you an advantage that everyone else does not have. You are one of the smurfs yourself, whip. You pitch for a better pug system yet your behavior online is one of inequality that favors DT by the very fact you all know your smurfs and/or are in teamspeak manipulating the results. If you want to make things more fair, man up and show yourselves rather than being deceitful, manipulative little smurfs. That will go a lot farther than rigging up a different pug system.
[_]-Greyfox
A agree with grey on that. No change in pug system will help with picking out more even teams if players are smurfing
As a proverbial fat kid I am going to offer my opinion here. Keep in mind ive only played one game against other players and im looking at this whole thing with fresh eyes. The term smurf was completely new to me until today. I heard it last night and had no idea what people were talking about.
It sounds like Sins is a small community full of people who mostly know of each other. So if you Smurf, you are actively deceiving everyone else intentionally. Lying about your skill is still lying, no matter how you dress it up.
If you lie to get people to think you are less skilled than you are... you are looking for an easy win - for truly skilled players this should be anathema. Good players should relish a challenge, not run from it.
If you lie to get people to leave you alone... you dont know how to copy/paste a message saying 'let me alone tonight'.
If you lie to get into a game on the same team as your friends... you are potentially unbalancing the game - see easy win. You could easily create a game with just your friends or break off into smaller groups if necessary.
I can see wanting to play with your friends or wanting to shed a crazy awesome record. The problem is that we all play to have fun. That means people should be conscious of others fun as well as that of their own. I have played games where Ive been hands down better than some of the other players. In that circumstance I don't mind shaking up the teams or working with new players. As long as its not set to be a blowout it can be a fun CHALLENGE. As a new player here Ive encountered some real rudeness from total strangers who knew I was brand new. If you want to keep your few new players, maybe you could try encouraging them to play along with you. Oh, and maybe Smurf a bit less?
The problem is that most of what was the clan DT and some nonaffiliated players do not care about having a challenge. They only care about winning so they can thump their proverbial chests and feel like they are badasses despite the fact it would be more so if they stack the odds against themselves rather than in their favor. In general they could care less about anyone else's enjoyment. They try their best to rationalize their actions but at least to me if falls very much flat. Dirtysanchez here himself who advocates for online has done nothing to change his smurfing ways despite being told on many occasions by many people that smurfing is detrimental to the online population.
Greyfox, I'm pretty certain that everyone who plays in the pugs know what names I'm using. I often tell people and if a captain /w's me and asks me my skill level I'll tell him honestly. That's not the same as typing out, "Uh, I've never played online before" and then pretending to be a complete noob.
I'm pretty certain that it's a common term that's used in other communities, at least communities of clan or pro players. Another term you might encounter (outside of Sins) is "ringer". A ringer is someone who plays in a clan match, illegally, by using a legitimate player's name.
Welcome to Sins online multiplayer and to the forums, btw. You should feel good about not having been crushed in that game last night.
Lol! I loved it when grey said 'thumps their proverbial chests'...heck I dont even know what proverbial means! I award greyfox one karma for making me laugh.
I would be very interested if people who smurf give me their reasons for smurfing rather than playing on mains. Is it because they fear that their win-loss ratio will go down if they play on mains? Or maybe it's because they are too afraid to prove they can compete at the very highest level against pro players who play on their mains, so they smurf to hide from that possibility should it arise. If that is the case, then those who smurf are simply victims of stats, and don't play this game for fun.
And it seems that those who favour smurfing are losing in their arguments against those who are anti-smurfing. E.g. Star has gone incredibly quiet... Does that mean that they are beginning to realise that smurfing is for cowards?
And Dirty, not saying you are a smurf unless asked in a pug is the same as lying.
sanchez should never play on his tag lol
i like the idea of being able to change ur name...
but each name should be linked to your account and thus show your stats (no matter how many times u reinstall or make a new name)
i dont understand why it is not like this
I rarely know when you are playing unless you specifically say it to the room or tell me. I rarely keep track of smurfs anymore as there is no point to it much. The smurfs will rarely be played more than 25 games. Whether you pretend to be noob or not, there are plenty of your clanmates and others that have no such compunction to be honest. The question remains that if you are going to tell who you are to whomever then why smurf at all. You could just play your main and not bother with coming up with new names at all. Every excuse I have heard for reasons to smurf is just varying depths of BS(some being knee high and others over their head).
As far as stats go, they are very easily manipulated so they are fairly worthless. There are easy ways to get wins and losses on ICO. Smurfing is not used as a way to protect one's record.
Here are my reason to smurf
1) Trying new strategies. People rely on you to do well in a game. Not a good time to try new things.
2) Busy doing other things while playing. Cant devote full attention to the game cause doing emails, phone calls, etc.
3) To not be stacked against. Playing 3v3 no matter how hard I try to distribute the teams fairly people want to give me the two noobs. I get to develop my skills but not really fair to my teammates
4) When I smurf Im captain. I'm not picked last or first. I'm the captain (usually against higs who likes to capt)
5) Clans are dead. DT won all the clan matches. Other clans can group together to play clans vs but not DT.
6) I dont tell anyone my smurf. So if I'm not capt no one knows who I am. You have to go based on my records and they are usually at 90%+ win rate.
7) To not be tripled or worst. Its not fun to be focus on by an entire team.
I try new things on my main. Some of my clanmates have tried new things on their main. You can too. My livelihood or life does not depend on it. If you mess up then nothing really changes. It's a game.
If you are too busy to not smurf, you are too busy to play a game at all. Do your job instead.
So you would rather stack in your favor than against. Basically what I have been saying this whole time. Gotcha.
Who knows on this since according to you no one knows your smurf.
Your clan may be dead but mine is not. Clans on a whole are dead but only because everyone else smurfs. DT won most of its matches against us back in the day but not all. No one but yourselves stops you from playing other clans or others in general(us for example). Clans being dead on a whole does not stop you from playing on an untagged main.
You just said when you smurf(read always), you are captain. You alude here that sometimes you do not captain. Make up your mind. One of these statements is a lie.
Sucks when it happens to me too. Grow a pair.
You dont come up with new things Grey. You are more of a follower. You just recently discovered level 0 spam units 1 year after every else has done it. You only play advent. You are missing 2/3 of the game
I can do many things at once. This game isnt that hard to play while doing other things
Where did I say I liked to stacked? Tell me? You assume something and then make your own conclusion from your assumptions. Do you need anyone else in your conversation or do do you just make up whatever you feel?
Quoting JohnJames, reply 38Here are my reason to smurf 4) When I smurf Im captain. I'm not picked last or first. I'm the captain (usually against higs who likes to capt) Who knows on this since according to you no one knows your smurf.
I dont recall losing ANY clan matches personally or any 5v5. Thats how dominate DT was. BTW I was in most clans including yours. But when it came to Clan matches always played with DT
Well again you read what you want to read. Didnt say always captain. Left that out there for the off chance I dont get to capt
LOL not at the first 10 mins of game when the third guy came all the way across the map to make an 8 cap fleet.
Grey I find most of JJ's reasons resonalbe
1. Do you want to disappoint your team or do the same stuff every game till the next patch.
2. While I don't do this, I'm not surprised to find that JJ multitasks with other projects while he plays I think it's debatable whether its a reason to smurf to not.
3. It can be frustrating when you play a 3v3 and your team cant 2v1 the worst player on the other team
4. While it's difficult to know what actually happens here I regard JJ as an honorable player
5. No comment
6. Grey if it means that much to you you can always start checking IP's
7. Some games I imagine the other team saying something along the lines of "if we kill player X we win even if 2 of our own die trying"
I spammed tier 0 units because its one of the few things one could do against vasari BS. I hate tier 0 spam as is evidenced by my posts regarding it in the past. That is why I have not done it for a year and not because I was not aware of it. You are fully aware of this fact seeing as how you did this crap last patch when illums were bugged and scouts were still strong. I had lobbied against scouts at that time as you are also aware. I like advent. They are what I prefer
Yet you used it as an excuse to smurf like you were possibly harming your team by doing it. Thus by smurfing you didn't earn a reputation for being a jackass or going afk on a main because you were half assing things by "working" and playing a game too. If it was so easy to do and no harm in doing it, there is no reason to use it as an excuse for smurfing. Play your main if its so easy and it harms nothing by multitasking.
That is where you said you did not want to be stacked against. You hide your identity to accomplish this thus stacking the team in your favor automatically since they do not know who they are getting. Play your main and cap yourself if you do not want stacked against you. There is always a shortage of caps in pugs. If you aren't cap then you can hardly complain about teams. Generally I will make mention in the lobby if I think its going to be a short game but if they want to play it then I still do. In 3v3 it is always hard to balance teams because the noob to pro ratio is rarely right for it.
To me that reads you always captain since I have not seen you on JohnJames or [DT]JohnJames in more than a year. Smurfing is not fair. When you are not captain, you automatically stack whichever team you are on because they do not know for sure what level of player they are picking. They are not making an informed choice and thus you mess up the fairness in your own favor.
[Quoting JohnJames, reply 38Here are my reason to smurf 5) Clans are dead. DT won all the clan matches. Other clans can group together to play clans vs but not DT.I dont recall losing ANY clan matches personally or any 5v5. Thats how dominate DT was. BTW I was in most clans including yours. But when it came to Clan matches always played with DT [/quote]
Convenient memory. DT won most of them as I have admitted already but not all. I call bullshit on you being in BIA unless it was before I was in charge. More likely you were a pretender like we have had in the past. Numerous occasions we have had people pretending to be in or faking another member by putting a slightly different name.
8 caps in 10 minutes from across the map. That's truly impressive. Sounds like you were outplayed. I maintain my "grow a pair" stance here. 3 people on you means that much less fleet to defend their territory and thus easier for your team
I have known JJ to misbehave at times back in the day even on his previously main name. How do you know what sort of honor he has? He never plays on his main and you do not know what he does on smurfs. One of the points(bad point in my opinion) of anonymity is you can get away with whatever jackass behavior you like and no one knows its you. IMO, it is not an honorable thing to smurf because it is inherently deceptive. He has already said that he joined my own clan under false pretenses. That sound like an honorable thing to you? Everyone is entitled to their own opinions so if you think him honorable then you are welcome to that opinion. I have already said that I do not care enough to keep track of what smurf belongs to what person much less try to find out by any means possible(tracking IPs or otherwise).
You think the only reason people have other names is to misbehave, be a jerk or stack. I've seen you stack games countless times.
If you think I got out played, I welcome you a 1v1 and as you kindly put it grow a pair.
I have stacked games? That's a new one to me. If I games were stacked when I was cap then it was either picking lucky with smurfs or because the other cap picked terribly. If it was stacked when I was not cap then it wasn't exactly my doing. Apparently you capping on your smurf(since you cap when you smurf) against me when I supposedly stacked some games did not get the job done.
I suck at 1v1 so you would very likely beat me. I either econ too much or not enough. I never claimed to be better at you in the game anyways. Just more honest and with balls enough to show my face whether I win or lose. You used to be good. Who knows how good you are now.
If you two did a 1v1, it would have to be on a map that is not called "random small".
I think it would throw both of you off enough to actually make it intresting.... Instead of TEC, econ, akkan+sova+lrms standard stuff.
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