When i first started playing this game, i'd always go really slow when it came to colonizing planets and made sure they were up and fully upgraded etc before moving on to the next. I read that rapid expanding is much more efficient and a better way to win the game so lately i've been trying that.
However, it seems that when i do this, while it is generally effective in getting me planets, eventually i come to a planet where i colonize it then all of a sudden the enemy just jumps in with like 3 capital ships and a whole mob of frigates. I can't defend against this since chances are, my fleets not in one piece cause i like to split it up and go both directions when expanding, and also i haven't even gotten the fleet/capital ship expansions researched. Basically I just start the game by building a colony capital ship and have it go one direction killing off the small militias and skipping the ones (if any) with big militias. I also put up 2 millitary labs immediately and start building LRMs and a colony frigate to go in the opposite direction/take care of big militias. Generally speaking i ususally get in about 5 or 6 planets, and start a trade chain easily. Its right about then though that The AI comes in with just a massive fleet and wipes out one or both of my edge planets and thats where it falls apart. I havent even thought about fleet expansion/capital ship expansion yet. Once they even came in and built a starbase, and their home planet was wayy over halfway across the system.
I just have no clue what to do. Basically, i can't expand both the fleet AND my empire cause it seems as though im already using most of my resources just expanding one or the other. what should i be doing?
Very much so; fast expansion not only provides you the best early-game economic base (lots of extractors) but also provides you plenty of room to grow in the mid-late game. I often don't need to touch logistic planetary upgrades (which can get ludicrously expensive) until well over an hour into the game, and those cost-savings can be funneled into more units to crush my enemies and expand my holdings further.
You still need to buy civilian population upgrades to avoid underdevelopment tax. Asteroids require one upgrade, full-sized planets require two.
Your best defense against this is scouting, so you know where the enemy is and what kinds of assets they have. If the first you hear from an attacking enemy is them knocking at your door, it's probably already too late to set up a good defense. If you're outnumbered and don't have any aces up your sleeve, it's usually a good idea to abandon your front-line world and regroup. Unless the enemy has a Marza or Vulkoras (or a Jarrasul above level 6) it usually takes a few minutes to bombard a world, and this can give you lots of time to prepare for a counter-attack.
As TEC, I would build a second capital ship to lead this force, probably either a Marza or a Sova. This has a dual-benefit of providing you a tank to absorb militia attacks (thus avoiding frigate casualties) and also allowing you to gain levels on this capital ship. It's very nice to be able to have the "cavalry arrive" and a level 4 capital ship join the battle in your favour.
If you're taking casualties with this group, that alone might explain your problem. Ten LRM cost almsot as much as a capital ship, so if you lose that many over the course of several battles that's going to set you back dramatically.
If the enemy is coming from both sides when you're that size, it sounds to me like you're "fast" expansion isn't quite fast enough. For 5-6 planets, you should typically be 15-20 minutes into the game. Presuming you're playing against the normal AI, your description of three capital ships and a "whole mob" of units seems to point more towards 30-40 minutes into the game, if not longer if they're hitting on both fronts.
You want to keep your fleet low and focus on expansion and economy in the early minutes of the game, but you also want to scout voraciously. You want to know where the enemy is, what they have, and what planets are likely to be the "middle ground" where you meet. Keep scouting and reorganizing your priorities based on what you see.
When you get close to meeting the enemy (2-3 jumps away from each other) start focusing heavily on military. Produce large numbers of units so you can withstand his first offensive or (even better) push him back from the get-go.
If you want more in-depth advice, feel free to post a replay and I'll critique it for you.
I have one, it's probably one of worst ive done, and it ends abruptly at some point cause i got frustrated and just quit and went outside
its also a 4 player map, with one on my team though. Usually its just a small random.
.. If only i could figure out how to post a reply :b
Sorry new here, how do i?
Just some quick tips to help with all of Darvin's strategy...
1. The Empire Tree is your friend: You can macro your expanding forces while queuing up a growing fleet while requesting reinforcements all at the same time and without moving your screen. Taking the time to learn it is very useful.
2. Don't always use your colony cap: For asteroids at least. After your first one, it can be much more productive to send your capital ship to a volcanic or ice world (assuming any are in reach) and use frigates to clear the asteroid. That way you save some of your valuable colony caps time or if you have a colony frigate use it for other things entirely.
3. Max out your starting fleet supply quickly: A capital ships plus 50-100 supply worth of light frigate/LRMs can clear all but the most heavily guarded desert and terran planets with few if any casualties. So after basic research and development don't be afraid to go all out on your fleet.
Also, you might find this thread of use (ignore the OP's AI conspiracy theories), especially the replay's on the back (Darvin did you ever make that youtube video? I'm sure we will be needing it for a while yet).
They are in Sins AppData folder (the one where mod folders are stored, just search how to install a mod and you should find the right area). Then just upload the replay file somewhere. Oh and what version of Sins is it?
I try to get a couple scouts outs while increasing funds from taxation (first option planetary upgrades), build a capital ship factory and save up for an Akkan Battlecruiser. Send the Akkan to kill off the hostile denizens of the gravity and then use the colonize ability to obtain that planet. Upgrade that planet and send the Akkan to the next world. When you can afford another capital ship, I would recommend either a Marza or a Kol and try to keep it where it can easily reach any planet under attack, such as a midpoint planet in the phase lanes.
Building a couple civilian research stations and researching trade ports is advisable, and then building trade ports on each adjacent planet is a way to quickly increase your credit income, and with more credits more possibilities. When the enemy attacks with their capital ships, bring your own to bear down upon them.
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/25658122/AutoRecord-12111224.record
There is the record of the game I described. Keep in mind im a newb and itll probably be horrible
edit, its actually quite bad. But its a general look of how it always goes. Theres just usually alot more frigs behind those 2 capital ships at the end, im not THAT pathetic :b
I'm currently downloading and watching your replay, Robert. I'll get back to you soon.
The replay file you provided was either corrupted or from a different version. What version of the game are you running? Have you patched to the most recent version?
Haven't had the time to play for a little while, but I've always been confused about how best to scout. Would you suggest to put them on auto-explore or manually enter in their routes? Scouts on auto-explore seem to be drawn toward pirate worlds, from which they often don't return, but I tend to forget about scouts that I've set to manually explore.
In addition, how many scouts do you suggest creating in the early game stages? And how would the number vary based on map size?
Again, I haven't had played for a while, so my questions may be a little outdated.
Thanks!
Manual, definitely. If I'm feeling lazy I might go half-and-half, but I would never go all-auto.
Auto-explore has a habit of back-tracking, gives you sub-optimal coverage, and often get killed by cutting through pirate bases (that was doable in entrenchment/vanilla, it's suicide in diplomacy with those longer range turrets).
You need to keep active tabs on the enemy's position, which involves rapidly revisiting a few important worlds where all the action is going on. Auto-scout tends to avoid worlds that have been scouted recently, while focusing on worlds that were scouted a long time ago. The problem is that you want to keep constant tabs on certain high-priority worlds while there are other gravity wells you just don't need to bother with.
During the early game, you want to zoom out every 30 seconds or so and re-evaluate your current intel and check if any new planets have been revealed. Basically try to multi-task; colonize a planet, check on your scouts, build your civic labs, check on your scouts, queue up some techs and build some units, check on your scouts. In the first 15 minutes, you should be downright anal about your scouts.
Once the map is filled out, scouting should become more sporadic and purposeful. Again, try to take a moment every minute or two to zoom out, look at the map, and figure out what intel you need. Go grab a scout or two and queue up some manual paths that will give you that intel. Holding shift, you can order it to visit multiple gravity wells in succession. If the last well is a friendly gravity well (or empty, such as the sun) you don't have to worry about forgetting about the scout.
Typically I want 4-6 scouts in my opening phase. If I see lots of uncolonizable gravity wells with neutral extractors I'll produce a few more as Vasari, but otherwise I seldom need more than 6. On smaller maps (5 planets per player) 3-4 is usually more than enough. Unless you're playing massive FFA's where you don't have any allies to scout the far reaches of the map for you, you virtually never will need more than 8 scouts.
The auto-explore behaviour is set to visit planets with the oldest intel first, so often what happens is that auto-exploring scouts will tend to go for planets far behind the front lines and end up having to go through heavy defenses. If those defenses can consistently kill those scouts, you'll basically be throwing scout after scout at the same place with the same results.
There ought to be some extra logic for these scouts then, like "if gravity well last known had x amount of firepower or destroyed y amount of other scouts, then seek another gravity well. If no other gravity wells are an option, then and only then traverse it evasively." I imagine such in a computer language would be a fair bit more complex, but the jist of that ought to give a basic idea. Otherwise, for people who manually navigate with their scouts, what are the thoughts and priorities you use when doing so?
Honestly, once front-line worlds become instant death to a scout passing through, I highly doubt that any reasonable AI would suffice. Personally, I'd just be happy if the AI had a little more prioritization. When a scout would rather revisit that dead-end volcanic behind your homeworld than move towards the unexplored gravity well right next to it, there's a problem. Similarly, when scouting the enemy there are usually 4 or 5 front-line key worlds of interest.
How do you determine which gravity wells are key? It would be good to figure out a precise thought process, an algorithm, as to how a knowledgeable player determines this so that, perhaps, it may be easier for programmers to get around to improving the scout ship's method of exploring.
I think front-line is the best you could do on this matter. It would depend quite heavily on the placement of assets and what moves you anticipate from your opponent.
I understand what you mean about front line scouting but when I was in the military the "front line" was where combat was taking place, in SINS if this definition is true then you already have ships in the area. So in fact you would have no need for scouts on the front lines since you need to see what the enemy is throwing at you, you have to go just behind the enemy lines, this is where you want to micro the scout's path in that gravity well and then send it back in your green zone while passing some Repair Bays and then back to the enemies territory, rinse and repeat.
Would "frontier" be a better word than "front line", meaning unexplored gravity wells rather than known hostile gravity wells?
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