Just started up a new game in 1.09q.
This problem is not specific to 1.09q but its been bothering me for quite awhile. Basically, heal is overpowered. In my new game I wasn't even trying to go for a steamroll strategy early, but I ended up being able to wipe out the two nearest rivals within the first 100 turns.
Basic strategy, beeline to heal and arcane weaponry grab some spears for you 3-4 champions and your sov. If you have these combos and your rivals don't your army is essentially unstoppable early game.
Heal- Heals 10 damage per turn, I'm playing tarth and my sov has 5 action points per turn, thus I can cast it three times. Imbue another champion and that bring the total up to 5 times per turn. Thus I can heal up to 50 damage per turn, only limited by my total mana stores which are right now near 200 (Sov has attunement) thus I can cast heal up to 25 times before my mana runs out.
My stacks total hit points are in the 100 range, thus this one spell bumps my stacks hit points on any given turn to 150 and over the course of a battle to over 350. For a roughly 350% increase. If I have this spell early game and my enemy doesn't, or doesn't have a caster in his stack there is no possible way that he can realistically beat me. I was able to take over Capitar and Resoln both using just this spell.
Arcane Weaponry- Adds five to attack for basically a cost of 1 mana. In early games attacks are around 5-15 range. Thus you can at most double and at least multiply attacks by 1.33 for the cost of 1 mana. Combine this with heal mentioned above and if you've been able to nab these two prior to a rival then your stack is essentially unstoppable early game. I have yet to loose a battle for an enemy capital while employing this strategy.
If I'm able to capture two enemy capitals simply because I happened to stumble upon a champion that produced 1 Arcane research in turn number 5 something is out of wack. Doesn't really mater that I may have expended some mana to do it. Now that I have 3 resource rich cities, each with 1-2 shards that mana loss will be made up very quickly, and I'll be unstoppable for the rest of the game.
Suggestions- Heal
1) Move heal to be a strategic spell rather than tactical. Allows you to heal your forces after a battle back to full strength in exchange for mana, but doesn't essentially grant you unlimited hit points during any battle in the early game.
2)Scale heal according to intelligence and spell level, say (Int - 10) * .5, thus at early levels with Int near 15 you're getting 2.5 points of healing. Not great buts its enough to perhaps save one champion from death, a worthwhile use of mana. At later levels it starts to power up again, but hit points and damage also scale making the increases less of an issue. I think this should be implemented regardless of other solutions adopted, all spells should scale with int. Int scaling ensures that early spells can remain relevant in late game, but also ensures that they're properly scaled in the early game and not overpowered.
3) Preferred solution. Limit the number of spells you can cast per strategic turn. Their are multiple ways to accomplish this but I'll throw out my idea. I love the global mana reserve, I think its a great change to game and adds a lot of strategic thinking about when and where to employ spells and enchantments. However, it has the drawback mentioned above. With a mana store high enough I am able to cast some spells an a practically unlimited amount of time in combat. This needs to be cut back, preferably in some way that scales as the game progresses and champions level up. Well we've already mentioned something that has precisely this property: intelligence. Keep the the global mana store but link the amount that each channeler can use per strategic turn to their intelligence. AoW used a similar system but linked it to another skill called 'Channeling' that you could improve upon level up. If a hero wishes to cast a more powerful spell let them cast it over multiple turns. If you want to cast an extremely powerful spell let your champions combine their channeling abilities in some way in order to cast it quicker.
Suggestions- Arcane weaponry
1)Increase mana cost and upkeep. Make it costly enough that although I may want to cast it on one character in my stack, putting it on every soldier would be impractical. Cost in the range of 20 mana with 2 upkeep per turn would be sufficient. For this cost range I'd be more likely to just put it on one soldier to get me through a couple tough battles, Casting on an entire stack would be impractical. Additionally this brings up another point: there should NEVER be a spell that has a casting cost that is the same as its upkeep cost. If casting cost = upkeep there is no thinking needed about whether or not you your maintain the spell. The answer is always dispell once the period of usefulness has passed! About to go into battle? Cast arcane weapon on everyone. Battle finished? Dispel all arcane weapons, if you need them again just cast it again next turn. If the casting cost is much higher than than upkeep this becomes a real decision. I just won the battle and I have three soldiers with arcane weapons. My mana production is hurting because of the upkeep, but there is an enemy army 5 turns away from that stack. Do I dispell to start building up mana again to cast my direct damage spells? If I dispell and that stack moves for my army I'll have to spend much more than the upkeep I would have had to pay to re-enchant those weapons. With casting costs higher than upkeep costs this becomes a real choice. Right now there's only one right answer.
2) Scale spells with intelligence and spell level. Same as above for heal. Make arcane weapons something along the lines of
= (int-10) * (.5 + .25 * (current spell level/2-1))
thus at spell level 1 with between 10-15 int you get a bonus of from around 1 to 2.5. Still makes you a little more powerful but not +50% attack
at spell level four you get
= (int-10) * .75 with 15 - 20 int this works out to between 4-7 increase, thus it still scales with available weapons.
at spell level six you get
= (int - 10) x 1 with 20-25 int you get from 10-15 increase, still scaling with available weapons.
It would be helpful if something along these lines were incorporated for all spells. Thus you can ensure that the average percentage bonus they give to attack, heal, etc is balanced with the HP, attack, defense that you would find for the average unit at a given point in the game.
Same with direct damage spells.
Making all spells scale with int and spell level ensures the following (number are just examples). In general as the game progresses heal cast by an average caster (assume most points spent in int) with heal approximately 10% of the average units hits points for 10 mana. However a later spell like 'Greater heal' will heal approximately 20% of a units hit points for 20 mana. Arcane arrow will be approximately as powerful as a 1.5 x a bow at any given tech level of the game. However a later spell, say a level three fire spell 'Fire Blast', will be approximately 2 x the strength of a bow at any given tech level of the game.
This gives some guidance as to balance for various spell levels. I.e. in general any level 1 buff spell should give 10% buffs at any give tech level, a level 2 buff should give 15%, etc. A level one direct damage spell should be in the range of 1.5 x tech level weaponry at all times throughout the game for 10 mana, a level 3 dd spell should be 2 x for 20 mana, etc. Ensures that there is some scaling of all spells and that all your spells remains somewhat useful. You can spend higher mana for a big punch or lower mana for a small punch, but the small punch is still a valuable piece of your arsenal.
Back to the arcane weapon example. Say there are three spells in the game that are variants of arcane weaponry. Arcane weapon, Greater Arcane Weapons, and Blade of the Titans. One is level 1, one is level 3, and one is level 6. Arcane weapons scales to give on average 10% bonus to your troops at any given level. Greater Arcane weapon will give on average a 20% boost, and Blade of the Titans will give the average weapon at the current tech level a 30% boost. Mana costs are 10, 20, and 30, upkeeps are 2, 4, and 6. Thus in an army there might be reason to use all three. Give sword of the Titans to one powerful champion, give Greater Arcane weapon to a couple others, buff everyone else with just regular Arcane weapon. Attack.
Arcane Arrow is even more broken. It's a bit like the Heal math, except that you deal twice the amount of damage (if you're meeting it's intelligence requirement) from any tactical range for less mana. Equipment? Pah! Get a couple of casters, and you can steamroll everything at a really early date.
There needs to be a limit on how much mana an individual can channel per strategic turn. Otherwise most tactical spells become gamebreaking instantly upon acquisition.
I would be sad to see tactical heal go entirely, but I would much rather see it either be a scaled mid-tree spell (int*.5 at spell level 3-4 or some such) than its current incarnation.
As far as a strategic heal. I wold LOVE to see a good, solid, early game (perhaps even =Int) overland heal spell. If you can survive a battle early game, you can recover fast, if you a good caster mid game you can buff in combat.
Unfortunately this post is absolutely correct. All spells need some kind of casting cost in addition to the maintainance costs, and strategic heal is very broken.
I say unfortunately because I'm enjoying abusing the heal spell in my current game.
Agree with arcane arrow being even more overpowered. Spell blast is similarly overpowered. I was able to defeat the entire army guarding the last piece of the forge of the overlord in one turn with just spell blast and arcane arrow from 2 casters plus one dragon.
However, at least arcane arrow and spell blast are a couple rungs up the spell tree and not level one spells.
Which leads to a second point that I may write a full post on. Moving up to the next level of spell should be a major investment. Right now moving to the next level of spells costs the same in terms of research as any one spell at that level, making it very easy to just run up the spell levels. I should have to think long and hard about when is the proper time to start researching level two spells. Moving up a level should take your research on additional spells out of commission for a significant period of time.
The calculus should be that someone that spends time researching all the spells on level one should have an advantage to someone who went for level two spells immediately. Their cities are more productive, their forces are stronger, etc. However, if the player who went for level two spells survives long enough they start to become more powerful as their buffs come online, forces become stronger, etc. Going for a higher spell level should involve a significant risk that is just not present now. Do I risk forgoing 2 valuable city buff spells, 3 valuable troop buff spells, one dd spell and one area damage spell in order to be able to START researching level two spells in 40 turns? Right now moving up a spell level is a trivial decision leading us to bypass the vast majority of the spells on each level. Grab the couple you need, move up, grab the next couple, move up, etc.
Healing and resurrection is one of those crazy game mechanics like teleporting. It has an inordinately large footprint on the resulting fiction. When you can instantly heal wounds caused by battle, while the battle still rages, you can no longer explain why anyone should ever die in this universe without some major 'deus ex machina'.
Mid-game, a 10 HP heal isn't such a big deal. Maybe it should heal 3/4 Intelligence ? Or 1/2 ?
Although all your points are good, this part in particular needs to be bolded, circled, and underlined twice with an unhealthy number of exclamation points and a few 1's thrown in for flavor. I mean to say, it's important. Everything in the game should scale if it possibly can (i.e. if it can be represented in any way by a number), or it'll be too weak after things that do scale start to take off, or too powerful before that, or both. Scaling could make certain spells less overpowered early game, more useful late game, and not to mention it makes int more well-rounded (rather than useless for some spells and too good for others).
I also really like the idea of AoW-style channeling points of some kind: a number (possibly based on int, or research, or both?) that limits how much mana a given caster can use in a short period of time (whether we're talking about an entire tactical battle, or each tactical turn, or whatever). But that's a pretty major change, something that appears on my expansion-pack-wishlist but not something I'd expect to see in next patch.. int scaling is a simple, easy fix that ought to be patched in for as many spells as possible as soon as possible.
Shouldn't there just be a cooldown on all spells? Maybe Heal only once every two or three turns. Fixes the problem right up, so far as i'm concerned.
This.
and this are not only really nice suggestion, but I believe they're vital in balancing magic. I'm going to link your suggestions in the 1.09r changelog thread because I believe the devs need to take them into account.
What do you think of having a different cooldown for each spell? Then fireball and fire dart will stop being redundant.
My faction rating is around 60 and Kraxis (top dog of the game) is around 90. If I decide to crush him, he won't stand a chance. Not even one unless he has as many or more channelers like me, and being able to use the same spells (and actually plays well which is unlikely until Frogboy updates the AI). My Sovereign alone makes 20 damage points per Arcane Arrow and the spell is rarely resisted. This is very similar to the old times in which all I had to do was to get a basic attack spell (don't remember name now) and Blizzard, have a bunch of Channelers, and spam my enemies to death. Same exact situation but with different spells and mana sources (now the spam would be a bit more limited but the Int bonuses compensate).
These isues are in the next beta patch notes already.
I just finished winning a game where my entire military was my sovereign and spouse. Attunement, max int, all levels into int, imbue champion, and you can steamroll everyone with absolutely no trouble at all. Switched over to Yithril Bows in the end simply because I had the money, but that just saved a bit of mana for mobility spam (which is also crazy). Never had to research a single War tech.
All this would be less broken if the AI took advantage of it too, but then the game would devolve into instant superweapons - either you have the counter within a turn or two of the opponent getting the superweapon, or you die. Instantly.
This game really needs per-turn channeling limits.
That's why I think that all spellcasters should have a "spell skill" that determines how much mana they can use in a given go. This could translate directly from intelligence, so (INT=Spell Skill) with a 15 intelligence you could use 15 mana in a turn.
For strategic spells, this means it would take multiple turns to cast more powerful spells, and in combat, you would have to use your spells more wisely. You could either have a total spell skill every combat round, or have a total spell skill for the entire combat (which might be better as INT*2).
Oh, spell specific cooldowns can already be implemented in the XMLs .
Well, that could be an awesometastic solution !
All that is needed, for most of these spells, is a cool-down.
Cast heal and you cannot cast it for 3 combat turns. BAM - it is now reasonable.
Adding a mechanic like this also gives you the need to plan a casting rotation and to acquire the bits and pieces you need to be successful. It also makes spells that are not the best still useful which removes all the min/maxing that wargamers like us are capable of doing. In short, some sort of limiting mechanic would help the game by making more parts of it actually relevant.
EDIT: Oops, I see several others have made a similar suggestion... Leaving this alone otherwise because it is a simple solution.
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with the Heal nerf, perhaps I'd like to see a greater heal or a revitalize (heal fully) higher up the spell tree- at least level 5.
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