So right now the team is working on getting v1.09 of Elemental out this week. I’ve been working on the AI which continues to generate a considerable amount of pain for me but it’s getting better but as I’ve gotten better at the game I’ve found it very problematic at certain things.
What I’m working on tonight is a detailed user manual update that will be based on v1.1 of the game (global mana and population as a resource). Population as a resource was something discussed in the beta a lot and was one of the core design elements of the game got lost because, at the time, the engine didn’t support non-storable resources (i.e. resources that are calculated each turn).
Playing Civilization V
I’ve been playing a lot of Civilization 5 recently. I am enjoying it quite a bit and I really really wish the Civ and Elemental communities would cease sniping at each other. It may seem hard to understand this but Stardock and Firaxis are on the same side. We’re not competitors. We’re friends. I think I can safely say that we want Civilization V to succeed and Firaxis wants Elemental to succeed. What neither of us want is for everyone to just throw their hands up and decide that Elemental II/Civilization VI should be a first person action game.
Anyway, my point is, please don’t use our forums to criticize Civilization V. Given the state Elemental launched in, it makes us wince (glass houses, stones, etc.). But flaming Civilization V is about the same as flaming Elemental to us. They’re our friends. Please back off.
Elemental UI
Now, a lo of people have been talking about the original Elemental PAX Beta UI:
So why did we change from that to our current UI?
There were a lot of reasons but a big one was, at the time we had to do a UI, performance. These are development journals so one assumes some of you guys like technical details. But basically, at the time we had to finalize our UI, we couldn’t support having a context-sensitive detached UI like this (the highlighted object would bring up a context-sensitive mini UI where the current item was). It also required 1280x1024 which we weren’t prepared to require as our minimum resolution.
After Elemental: War of Magic, we’ll be able to reevaluate what the engine can support.
Other Ramblings
So v1.09 is still mostly about bug fixing, memory optimization, etc. A broken API got fixed that made the AI considerably better but it’s still way way too unaggressive. Having a non-cheating AI kind of stinks sometimes because the AI doesn’t usually know how weak your cities are. In GalCiv, the AI could come up near your planets and see how poorly defended. But the same technique fails in Elemental because they don’t get close enough to your cities to see how weak they are and then coordinate. So it’s something I’m still trying to deal with. But if anyone wondered why the AI wasn’t “aggressive” enough now you know. It’s something I’m painfully aware of.
Demo version
The demo version won’t come out until v1.1 and will be based on that.
Best Buy and Walmart content
v1.09 will also coincide with the special content for people who bought the game as Best Buy or Walmart. They get their own special quests. That said, we will be providing this content for free to all users 90 days after their availability to those users (they paid for them so don’t feel like you missed out).
Similarly, if you bought the book Elemental: Destiny’s Embers, the full map of Anthys, will be released this week for those who bought the book.
The book is at a bookstore near you. We’re pretty happy how it turned out and the book takes place 800 years AFTER the War of Magic so you can get some hints and allusions to things coming up in the game world over the next several years.
Didn't you in the past state that you had some issues with civ v do to its Steam distribution?
Personally I dont really like either civ v or elemental right now. Civ iv and gal civ beat them both imo. That said, Civ V is more polished and less buggy then elemental, or at least when comparing their respective release versions(haven't played elemental in a while now). But I do want both games to succeed and do well as I bought them based off of previous good experiences with firaxis and Stardock. Though I certainly should have waited(more-so in the case of elemental)
Can you clarify this? Are you guys going to overhaul the UI in the expansions or are we stuck with the current UI (barring small changes) for at least a couple of years?
I think I can safely say that we want Civilization V to succeed and Firaxis wants Elemental to succeed. What neither of us want is for everyone to just throw their hands up and decide that Elemental II/Civilization VI should be a first person action game.
Yes. Thank you. Look what they did to X-COM and Fallout. The new systems work alright, but they are not the same game.
Oh, and please don't opt to make Elemental 2 or GalCiv3 an RTS, either. That's another disheartening trend.
With regard to the AI not knowing about the strength of enemy cities, have you thought about adding espionage units to the game? Most 4X games have espionage just for this reason - because neither the AI nor human can make a coherent strategic decision without it. The human can use caravans for this, but that's a side effect trick. With magic in the game, it's reasonable to have units with cloaking ability (and of course those units would be able to see other cloaked units). They'd be quite weak and easy to kill.
Don't worry man, they'll probably be MMOs.
-J-
Thanks feeding me some more crack....I can finally stop shaking...
Well, i think that a spy unit, which could go either stealthed or "dressed up" as an npc or monster, could address the AI situation, given that this unit could walk inside enemy influence teritory.
This is a great idea. Why not spell to summon harmless scouts like birds, ghosts, rabbits (anything). Things that the enemy can't even see. So you can freely explore everywhere (well at the cost of some mana). More anxiety knowing that someone could be watching right now. Would solve the AI scouting problem.
What about us nook owners? When do we get our content/content code?
is the problem really that the AI doesn't scout or that it is not calculating risk accurately.
even if you get into enemy territory, there is always the chance you can see the 700 attack rating and say "oh crap" and turn around.
instead the problem is the AI has its sov see that rating and say "what the hell, let's do this" instead.
and i'm not flaming elemental, i like it. just saying we don't need more carrots on the stick.
An espionage system could do wonders for allowing the AI to "discover" the opponents strength. I'd do a combination of designating funding (like in Gal Civ or Civilization IV) as well as an "Agent" system (more like Civ IV). Those were both fun, enjoyable, and worked. The more the AI would put into it then the more they'd know, however, the human could also use this and protect/mislead the enemy. That'd be fun!
Regarding Civ V, it's fun, I'm playing it with Elemental but they both have their positives and faults.
Also, that UI looks fantastic. Why not allow it as an optional (higher graphics) setting? That way, people who want it can use it and those who don't aren't penalized by it's requirements.
EDIT: Just saw the mini-map. It does look incredible compared to the released one. PLEASE give us that UI.
That minimap would be very nice in game. I'm looking forward to the update.
I'm no expert on AIs, but I thought each faction would have an overall power rating based off number of units, number of cities, number of heroes, spells learned, etc. Based on this overall rating, the AI could get a feel for which opponents are weak or not. I don't know if this rating is considered cheating or not, but you could say it is based off word of mouth from the peasants of the world. To be honest, when I play ridiculous mode, I don't really care if the AI cheats to know if I am weak or not, I just want a challenge! In Fall from Heaven and Civ 4 I thought it was good that in the hardest level the AI units all got about 5 starting promotions. Another good way to make the AI more challenging for higher levels is for them to start with 2 - 3 cities and/or more units.
In two of my games I distincly heard the enemy Sovreign scream "LEROOOOOOOOY Jenkins" and then run into a battle. It died both times before it could escape.
Unfortunately, in v1.08 and before the pUnit->GetCombatRating() function wasn't returning the value of the army it is in IF it is in a city. hence, the AI would go after a city thinking it could take it because it was only looking at one unit in the city. This is what I mean about new engines and such. In GalCiv II, the various APIs that I had available to me were mature and robust. In Elemental, they're still babies. It's one of the reasons why sequels tend to be better than the original game. You end up with tons of mature APIs to work with for all kinds of things.
Well, at least your on top of it. I really like elemental, but I just want it to be more challenging. I want to play on ridiculous level and be like "oh ****, this is ridiculous." Right now, I find sand golem totems (I found three in like the first 20 turns on my latest game), and I feel disappointed because I know I can now just tear the opponents to pieces. I want to find cool stuff and think to myself, "Thank god, now I've got a chance!"
I don't know if it's just me, but I have pretty much given up playing until 1.1 comes out. I guess the essence/mana system just annoys me when I think of a global system coming out soon.
Is there any indication what stage of October 1.1 will be coming?
Right now the AI doesn't have to scout, it sees everything on the map. You will see wandering sovereigns heading to goodie huts half way across the map. I hope this gets fixed because it is a biggy for me. I was hoping to mimic stealth by manipulating movement and sight range.
Umm....Duh..... just rework the Reveal Spell. Lets you reveal any part of the map forever. Have it give LOS for 2 turns and then FOW it afterward. 5 turn cool down. 5x5 area. Should be been like that from the start duh.... Solves all your AI not close enough to the city and AI not having to travel totally wrong ways to search.
Bam! Wheres my high five?
hey! this is an opportunity to make a new spell. one that allows you to see enemy cities. currently we have a spell that only gets rid of the black area. also, i don't quite understand why the AI can't see human cities. once you uncover the fog of war, you can ALWAYS see what that city is up to.
its my opinion that we shouldn't be given so much information for free. it just kills the strategy when i can look at all of my enemies cities, and see what they are doing there(like what they are building, what units are being trained, and how many they have, combat rating etc...) under the fog of war, i mean why even have fog of war in the first place?
edit: crap shark, you beat me to it. high five to you then.
As far as the sovereigns going "What the hell, let's do this", I just renamed them all Leeroy Jenkins and let them have at it.
I've got a question regarding this if someone could be so inclined as to answer this.
Does this mean that <Calculate> will be applied to more things? For example, could a <Calculate> expression be applied, on a per turn basis, to trait bonuses. For example, the Merchant makes (CHARISMA + WISDOM) / 10 gold per turn?
This would be amazing.
Possible ideas for the AI/humans and cities.
Why not have the AI make more aggressive usage of scry spells, and Ranger packs to see three-four hexes in?
Secondary idea: marry into a Civ, and you gain the ability to see the Civ's cities. declare war on that civ, and you have a high prob of losing the husband+wife.
This is just one type of the game depth we need for Elemental.
For example:
Most monsters should be more than just a fixed set of numbers. Thus if I'm fighting skelletons then arrows should do little damage where as a warhammer would do lots of damage. A sand golem should be immune to poison attacks. A mind flayer should be able to do more damage against units with low intelligence.
i swore I wouldn't be following the dev journals... but am apparently a liar. Really like the look of the new ui. Good job!
That's true, but I'm still confident you guys will mature things nicely with this first game and get things into shape. Then when elemental 2 rolls out (hopefully), you guys will have a ton of great content to work with that you built from the ground up. And that's exciting stuff! Just keep plugging away and improving on your baby!
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