Not only do I get to experience most of the "normal" Elemental bugs and issues, but because my rig is slightly under the system reqs, I get to see some really weird graphical fireworks (already posted about it on the support forum) , and the game still could certainly use quite a bit of re-balancing, tweaking, and perhaps major changes to some systems to achieve its true potential. But with all that, I am already enjoying it more than many games that have received some of the best review scores ever, such as Civ IV, for example. Its basic premise, that of an RPG-type character in an RPG-type world but with empire building elements is just pure genius, and if Stardock are as committed to it as they have stated, I get all tingly just thinking about this game in a year's or two year's time (or maybe even Elemental 2, with all the Elemental's lessons learned). But even now, after patch 1.08, the gameplay is already picking up, and it's very nice to see the game take major steps forward with every patch (and some minor steps backward ). Keep up the good work, Stardock. I think a lot of people criticize these guys without considering their situation and the current state of the industry. Most games today are derivative, simplistic corporate money-makers aimed at the mainstream and boasting ever improving graphics and little else. Anyone who tries to make innovative or ambitious games, on the other hand, usually struggles to some degree, because innovation and ambition are inherently difficult, and because they cannot match the resources of an EA or Activision-Blizzard. I believe I read somewhere that Elemental's entire team is like twenty people. So you can't really expect them to make something as complex as Elemental and have it be perfect right away. As long as they are committed to improving it, we owe them some patience.
Wow, simply wow. I agree with you completly .
Totally agree
Normally, I wouldn't comment on such posts. But I think it's necessary in the current situation. SD needs a little bit of motivation or it won´t do any harm at least.
Agreed.
I think the extent of the disappointment can partially be attributed to how much hope we have/had for the game - I wish instead of calling this the release they called it the open beta, and all problems would have been solved.
You are exactly right. As gaming has gone from a small fraction of the population to mainstream, the quest to sell to a wider part of the market has steadily decreased the quality of games while constantly yelling "Hey, look at our graphics!!!!!". Rather depressing.
Thanks for producing interesting games guys.
Definitely agree.
I havent enjoyed a game as much as Elemental nor played one as much in years. Even with it's flaws this game keeps me coming back to play it again and again.
do you folks also enjoy watching paint dry?
I agree on the main point.
I disagree on the concept that these bigger companies somehow only develop derivative and overly done games and that somehow any of it (them being big, successful or publishing games people obviously want) is a bad thing. I only hope for Stardock's sake, they don't ever get that successful or something weird will happen and everyone will despise them for 'selling out' or 'getting too big' or 'making Elemental 3'. It's a weird ass mentality that is. It's called a business, it's always been about selling out, selling what the people want (just look at the success of Halo Reach) and if it works, keep selling it to them, I see nothing wrong with it.
Also, ambition and innovation are all over the place, just look at the indie scene and if you look closely you'll see some of the big names publishing the odd ball game here or there. It wasn't that long ago id made a little game called Doom or Blizzard made a little game called Warcraft.
Stardock is also a corporation looking to make money.
I agree underneath the bugs is a great game trying to get out, I'm still having great fun now even though it has some issues 1.08 was a great patch too but unfortunatley the hotfix introduced some new issues and since I had beta's turned on I don't have the saturday patch that fixed the later issues anyway.
Still I lookforward to each and every update Stardock issue and I say this, stick with it guys in 5 years time people will remember the game Elemental becomes, not all the problems it had in the early day.
MrCapitalG, the issue isn't that they are hated for being big as you say. It is that in many cases what sells to the masses is not fun to the type of gamer who enjoys the sort of game a lot of us here like. Is there anything wrong with a company doing the math and seeing that very basic games have a larger possible player base and that you can sell graphics? Hell no. Do I want to play shooter clone X or insert sport 20XX just because the company upgraded their graphics and changed the numbers in the X slots? Hell no.
The key here is that whether or not I like all the game mechanics I see in elemental I see things that tell me this isn't just a clone with sweet new skins. It is significantly different than any game I have ever played (though it does of course share some aspects with other empire building games), there are interesting possibilities here with regard to future gameplay, the team working on the game is clearly willing continue altering game mechanics to correct current issues which would otherwise destroy the game, and even with the issues in this game I still enjoy it MUCH more than many games I have payed the same amount for.
You seem to think people like stardock because they are smaller than blizzard(another good company) or something. The truth is that the only thing their size might have to do with it is that they really can't just sit back and keep reselling the same game with a few graphics upgrades. They more or less have to generate something new or no one is going to look twice at them.
In terms of "seeing units fight in a cool looking fantasy worlds", it sorts of delivers. But as a strategy game... well, there's actually no real strategy game here yet.
Civ V, for instance, shows that major companies can innovate and rock the gaming world.
Some of the more rabid supporters of Elemental and Stardock have made it CLEAR that Blizzard in particular is the face of all that is evil with the PC gaming industry. Using the example of Starcraft 2 in particular. Generally with little more than "Starcraft 2 sucks" as the rationale.
I love the indie scene (I've played more of Jeff Vogel's games than almost any other publisher) but being "indie" doesn't lower standards in my eyes. I don't expect AAA level cutscene or even graphics, but gameplay, UI and solid storytelling are available to all without a huge buy in so to speak.
Fer zample, Spiderweb Software's games are ugly (butt fugly) and the UI takes getting used due to it's quirks. But they pack some really good storytelling, TONS of content and replayability. And don't forget some pretty damned unique settings.
Back to the topic at hand... the THEORY behind the game is exciting, but little is with the current implementation. Framework alone does not make a good game.
Better than Civ IV?... I guess there is truly no accounting for taste.
And it's not even a fair comparison. Civ IV has been out for years and has some truly fantastic mods for it. Elemental isn't even really a game yet. I agree with others on this thread that state that being a small (Stardock is NOT indie, let's be clear) company does not excuse releasing a hot mess. There are reasons why Activision and Blizzard have the resources they do. You don't think they started out huge, do you? Certainly Sid Meier/Firaxis did not.
Elemental might be a great game down the line and some of the ideas are interesting, but even at 1.08 (which is how many patches now?) the game is still slightly more than a demonstration of an engine with lot of blanks that need filling in. And yes, when a company asks for a premium for their game, I expect to get premium software in return. The demographic of their team is irrelevant to that transaction. Look at Basilisk games if you want an example, they take their time and release solid titles with little or no bugs. Oh, and they don't charge 50$ either.
One of the (supposed) nice things about not being beholden to a publisher means that there really is no excuse not to delay a game to get it right.
Well, to be fair, elemental is also not inventing the genre. There was MoM and AoW... In fact, it is quite difficult to find original concept in this game.
Well - I'm certainly still enjoying it, and looking forward to continual improvements and new campaign bits for a change of pace. Also, dungeons maybe?
That and the elemental plane. After all, the Master quest hints at other planes of existence where danger lurks.
Agreed. But please, please, please make the computer AI play smarter.
Actually I rather like starcraft 2 personally, I just said it crashes more than elemental which on my system is a fact. It's still fun though.
Anyway, wasn't Activision the evil with PC game industry? (some months, not so long, ago, it was EA the Final Boss of pure evilness) You know, level of polish of Starcraft 2 having nothing to do with milking customers from their money*? I was fooling myself thinking that... apparently.
* for those thinking in the expansion packs, maps...
Agree with the OP. (Disagree Blizzard is evil: they put out good stuff. I like SC2, and liked its polish but thought it was a little bland.)
Due to stability issues, I just started playing (or more precisely, finishing) with 1.08. Since 1.08 it's been running well with crashes maybe every 200 turns that can be autosaved around. Not bad for a new release. Each game I keep discovering new features and new angles to supreme power, and get a little better sense of the game mechanics. In the last game, over three sessions, I was able to use diplomacy to play two AIs against one another such that they fought and fought, weakening each other--I love doing that to AIs--while I sat back and researched my Spell of Making. By the time they were done there wasn't much left of either, and their cities would have easily fallen to my army of dragons anyway. In terms of winning, I'm pretty hit or miss on normal difficulty--losing due to poor starting resources, overly aggressive expansion, or carelessness with my sovereign. Each of these I'm getting better at. But once I get a good economy going, it's only a matter of time. Already I'm finding Elemental very fun and addictive to play (two 4 AM nights now) and no two games have been remotely the same.
A couple prominent issues spring to mind at this point:
(1) The AI tends to spam units and throw them up against unwinnable cities, like a repeated onslaught of armies ranked level 20-50 against my stationed army, ranked 250. The 250 army can and does fight them off forever--I guess the steady stream of gold is nice. Since they are spaced so close, often 2 per turn, they should be grouping up. Maybe I'll find that in harder difficulties. It's just bad form is all, and if they are doing this to 2 cities, all the initiate battle screens and winning screens can be annoying.
Also (2): I can tell you right now which spells I'm going to get in my next game: lightning bolt, imbue champion, inferno, summon fire giant (at which point I'll rush any neaby faction), deflection, freeze, and summon water giant--and then after that I'll play around with other random spells which I'll try to see what they are like but will hardly ever use them. I'd like it if spells were more balanced, and once they were, acquiring them had a more opportunistic quality.
I agree that under the layer of problems (which is an extremely thick layer) is an incredibly enjoyable game that has the potential of being one of the greats (if it doesn't get screwed up in the process).
Game is fun but only on the early part, then it becomes unbalanced with the very poor and suicidal AI, and broken gameplay mechanics.
Underneath all the poop this sandwich really tastes good.
"Sure, the game needs a total redesign, but right now it's great!"
"I've never heard of Master of Magic, Age of Wonders, or even Heroes of Might and Magic."
"I regret buying this game and am trying my best to support my cognitive dissonance with Stardock's help."
"I understand the QA process even worse than Stardock."
"I have absolutely no clue that Elemental was advertised as Master of Magic, a 15 year old game, with better graphics."
"I am totally comfortable with spending my money on an unfinished product. And if I keep telling myself that, I might start believing it."
^ LAWL....
Sigh, will the fun never cease around here?
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
