Okay. Lets discuss Multiplayer just a little. I know we are putting things back in which were stripped out, i know the MP patch is coming thats all good.
However... this is what I think multiplayer should look like.
The EXACT same as Single player but with humans. Thats it, boom done. Yes add all the extra modes you want, wizard duel, hot seat, ect ect whatever. Multiplayer mode, with all the options of single player, tactical combat, same tech tree, same units, same magic ect ect. The main multiplayer mode should be EXACTLY the same as single player. Add all the extra fun modes if you want, but a true to the single player version would be just what the Dr. ordered. We are well aware that games will last days and days... its what we want
S.R.
I agree.
When they said they were not going to do much with MP just yet, this is where I thought we would start. Just SP with human players and then work from there.
they've said they are planning on doing unique tech trees, among other things. I'd assume it'll be much more streamline. Which is good and bad. Better for PvP but worse for co-op
give us both. how hard could it be to have both when one's practically already made?
Nah most people planning to LAN this game dont want dumb down tech trees We want Single player but with friends. Half the people probably arent planning an all out PVP game. Just turn the difficulty up and do the good ole man versus machine
Well.... man versus machine... unless some guest gets annoying then you torch his empire too
Competitive TBS.. how exciting...
"Here is Lord_Destrucktion, he's opening his city buildnig menu... oh going for a shanty... NO! NO!!! Building a Money Changer! WOOAA!"
"Now Elementalist_586 is moving his army 2 squares north... done... fiou... Oh... he's done with his turn? NO! Realized a Pioneer was sitting there for 2 tunrs! What a great faint!"
*Crowd goes wild*
I will admit its not for everyone but I play a very good range of games, anything from SC2, to COD, to Sins. Since its hard to find anyone to play chess with these days Elemental will just have to do.
Agreed! Well, I would actually make one tiny adjustment (as an option): Allow "simultaneous" turns a la Civ 4 or AoW: Shadow Magic, that way turns are only as slow as the time of the slowest person, instead of as slow as the time sum of all the players combined.
Cloning the single player experience has the added benefit of allowing the developers to focus on the single player development, instead of developing two different products. Some people might find that turn based games are bad for multiplayer, but those who buy a 4x TBS with multiplayer should already know what they are getting into. When I buy a 4x TBS that claims to have multiplayer, I tend to think the multiplayer will also be a 4x TBS. I don't usually expect wizard duels!
Any other fancy modes the developers want to add should be extras, not the main event.
Sadly enough, Brad doesn't seem to want this. (Well not short term)
His "Multiplayer" essay just drove a dagger through my poor little TBS-FANTASY-HEART.
I found his concerns to be overblown and misguided, catering to a competitive element in a genre that isn't known for that is kind of weird. I know there are Civ competitions, but it's nothing like RTS or FPS. Those later types of game rather require competive play to be possible, as TBS games should be built for friendly gameplay. You are not going to play a 20 hour game with some random stranger "overnight".
And then he talked about Wizzard Duels *Shudders*. That really, really scared me. Like WTH?
I can't talk about this anymore it's too upsetting lol.
that's been my attitude for the past couple days
Heres the thing with Brad rest his froggy little soul. Brad isnt into multiplayer TBS. Hes not. I dont blame him... it takes ALOT of time and patience to play this kind of game multiplayer, specially if your playing with people who are just starting to play this kind of game. So Brad made in my opinion a few judgement calls which were not good. However i do believe he said somewhere he was sorry about that, and they would fix that more towards what we want. I dont want to go looking for it on the forum, but i think the intention is to make MP close to SP. I just wanted to see if we couldnt get a little feed back early as to making exactly like SP. I dont like the idea of a unique tech tree for basic MP. Let the modders mod, let the players play.
And whats with everyone calling for hotseat? If Brad thinks this game will be boring playing tactical MP, how painful would hotseat, or play by email be? :/ to each there own.
I don't understand how he could be so gun-ho for competitive multiplayer when the current resource system can completely fuck you over depending on where you start.
Player 1: Hey I got a fetlie ground, what did you get?
Player 2: Gold mine, earth shard, oasis, old growth forests, and two lost temples, no fetile ground though.
Player 1: My network cable fell out of the back of my computer, we are going to have to restart.
Oh oh... Stop please... I almost fell off my chair laughing...
I agree!
An option for simultaneous turns (not sure how they could be implemented nicely though) wouldn't go amiss either!
Wholeheartedly agree.
I got into 4x games with MOM, was a big civ player, AoW and many others. Perhaps the most played have been Kerberos's Sword of the Stars and Stardocks own GalCiv II.
Not all of these games have had multiplayer - but of the ones that did, Multiplayer was the same as Sandbox mode - just with people.
And thats what it really comes down too - I want to play the same game with others that I do by myself; I don't want to play a different game. I'd Like to have the option to play a different game - in fact its the reason I'm so excited about the modding parts of Elemental. I plan to use it for map making - hell if it all works out as a visual platform for pnp play.
But when I want to play Elemental - I want to play Elemental.
Exactly. Couldnt agree more, if i love playing Elemental single player, why would i want tech trees and such different when i play multiplayer. There will be loads of multiplayer mods(someone needs to buck up and do a tactical battle tower defence, lets see you guys pull that off )
I honestly think if they give us the whole game in MP format, that would be better. I dont want modders trying to put the game back together bless there hearts.
Tom
P.S. If ANYONE at StarDock wants to put together a multiplayer game of GC2 id toss in a couple grand and im dead serious. You out there Frogboy? i know this isnt the time and place to discuss the only short comming of GC2. But man that game was perfect sides the lack of multiplayer.
Agree completley with the OP.
I just want to play the same game as single player, with friends. That's all.
Stardock seems to have a really twisted over complicated view on multiplayer. I think it's one of those weird things you get with some people where they can perform the most amazing complicated tasks with ease, but give them somthing simple to do and they just don't get it.
Semi-simultaneous turns would be great. You can build structures/start training units/fiddle with your tech at any time during the turn, but you can only move your units when your turn is up. Maybe have two buttons: End tactical turn (to let the next player move his units) and end strategic turn, which you hit when you're done micro-managing your empire. The turn as a whole doesn't end until everyone has hit the second button, so if you want to change your training in response to something the last player does, you don't have to scramble to do so.
All (or most) of the benefits of strict turn-based gameplay, but sped up since you don't have to wait for each player to go through making sure all of his cities have enough housing, are training units, are building things, take 15 minutes deciding what tech and/or spell to get next, buying equipment for their champions, negotiating a treaty with another player (who went off to grab a soda...), etc.
I was a little dumbfounded when Brad said he doesn't want to do a traditional multiplayer system and was not very eager, in general, to have multiplayer in Elemental. I mean, Elemental just SCREAMS multiplayer with all the customizations. More than any other 4X TBS to-date, Elemental actually makes you want show off your empire because your characters will be so unique.
Sure, it's fun to look at your own sovereign's unique outfit by yourself, but it's so much more interesting to show him off to a friend.
I'd just like to see hot-seat mod personally. I always found CIV III-IV a ton of fun hot seat, and would love to see it in Elemental!
I haven't seen MP yet, so I will not ask or comment until I do.
lol Sotrander your nuts bud. Hotseat is hell. Specially for this kind of game. But to each there own I guess.
A changed around competitive quick match is probably important if we want a large online community. However most people probably just want to sandbox it out in single player with their friends.
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