Based on my name, you can see I'm a big Master of Magic (MoM) fan. I've waited 16 years for a game to replicate the experience that the MoM provided back then. Though there were other excellent fantasy TBS games since then, even today I run back to the DOS emulator to fire up the old MoM once in a while just to enjoy the fun of imbuing a double axe with flaming, haste, and +6 attack, and then let it rip in the hand of Gunther the Barbarian. There's just something special in that game. Too bad there was never a true sequel to the game. Imagine my surprise when I heard Stardock was trying to do a game like MoM. Even if it did not get the brand name, as long as the gun has the fun ingredients and factors from that game, then I'll be more than satisfied.
I'm also disappointed to hear all the hoopla about the launch problems. It certainly didn't present a good invitation to me as a gamer, but I am still hopeful that the concept of Elemental is not lost. Keep in mind that even Master of Magic took until 1.31 patch to become the fantastic TBS that it was. I'm hoping by update 1.31, Elemental would be a much more polished game that everybody expected it to be.
Therefore I have not played the Elemental, but I will be as soon as it's improved to the point where I get to jump right into an enjoyable and balanced game. For now, to wet my appetite, I'm wondering for you Master of Magic fans, do you think Elemental has the key aspects of the original MoM that made it such a classic? And what can be done with Elemental to make it more fun. Perhaps this will give developers some ideas about how to fine tune the game to capture the "magic formula" for a classic?
I have played MoM, MOO, MOO II, Civs, Apha Centauri, ... etc...
Is Elemental: War of Magic a Spiritual Heir to the Master of Magic lineage?
The simple answer is... NOT YET. It probably will be when it gets polished up some and new features and techs and spells added in. Or when they do more patches.
I you enjoyed MOM you will enjoy this im pretty sure. I was a fan of MOM and im loving Elemental, even with its AI and lategame slowdown issues.
Get it!!
BoydofZINJ is right. As of now I can't say it is the heir of MoM, but I think it will be when all is said and done. I would definitely suggest buying it, but you may want to wait a month or 2 for a things to get ironed out a bit.
The game's channels much more of the Civilization games than Master of Magic - that'll probably remain true even after a couple of expansions.
Atm the game's focus is on city building, research, and army-building. Elements like heroes and magical gear are underutilized, there are no powerful magical items and even the strongest hero is at best as good as a three man squad with equal gear - but he's probably quite a bit weaker.
Some things are very similar, trade especially. Cities progress in a similar way, although there's more micromanagement here as you specialize cities towards the indigenous resources - no city can do everything, like in MoM.
No. It does not. Almost none of the charm is there. The only thing it shares with MoM that isn't standard for the genre is that you can see the individual buildings making up your city.
Will the charm be added in patches and expansions? Maybe. The most important steps in that direction would be differentiating types of magic, differentiating races/civs, adding a TON of passive "special abilities" which almost every unit in MoM had but are very rare in Elemental, and making heroes more powerful.
In reply to the OP
No, not really. Actually I believe it feels quite different, and therefore basing your decision on MoM alone will likely leave you a bit disappointed. Elemental, when it reaches it's full potential, could be something quite special, but isn't quite there yet. I must say though I had a similar experience with one of Stardock's other games Galactic Civilisations II, which I thought sucked a bit when I first played it, but when I came back 2 years later to play the Ultimate Edition, it was a really good game. I'm not sure that's such a viable financial model for a developer, but it does give me hope that Elemental will be a great game - but really probably not even a good one for 3 months or more from now.
Yes and No.
Certain aspects of the game are already better than in Master of Magic (city building, RPG focus, researching tech), basically everything on the Civilization kind of level. If you are looking for an engaging magic system and lots of interesting abilities for regular units and fantastic creatures plus exciting combat: definitely not! Magic is very boring at the moment and feels more like an accessory than an integral part of the game.
If magic is very important to you, I highly recommend to wait a couple of months and to ask again then. Still, I am quite sure that the game will eventually surpass Master of Magic in every way. Why? Because the groundwork is very good, because there is a company at work with an impressive body of work when it comes to patching and expanding on the core mechanics of a game and because it has far, FAR better modding capabilities than Master of Magic.
I think the Civ IV:BTS total conversion/mod Fall From Heaven 2 feels more like MoM, personally, even though that wasn't the goal of that project.
Elemental is pretty cool though and with Stardock, you never know. They've been known to totally redesign game elements and in the end, Elemental could end up feeling more like MoM.
Thanks for all the information. I definitely would wish that MoM had some Civ aspects...but it was a fun game in a way that it didn't bog down on a ton of city building details. The magic and combat system really made the MoM shine, especially the variety of magic and specialization that it offered.
I first heard of Elemental is when it broke the news that Stardock tried to acquire license to Master of Magic. Why else would Stardock try to get the classic name if they didn't do something following the path. And even today, "War of Magic" seems to imply a focus on magic and combat, so I'm still hopeful that these areas will be improved upon to make the game much more like the game title suggested.
Some days I just wish some one would just update the Master of Magic with new Gfx, UI, and add some of the strategic empire building elements. In fact, Stardock managed to make GalCiv II superior to Master of Orion, I don't see why they can't make Element just as good. If I had to choose, if Stardock had simply used Gal Civ 2 engine, and adapted a magic system in it, I feel it would've been a great game since many quirks had already been worked out. Some times, there's really no need to reinvent the wheel when it's working perfect.
Honestly Elemental doesn't compare to MoM at this time. Maybe with a few months of support and good design changes / additions. The magic is far too bland at the moment (aside from all the other issues too).
I agree with a lot of the replies here in part. Here's my take on an answer for the OP.
I think when all is said and done Elemental will surpass MoM in every way. In some ways it already does, and in other ways it doesn't. The Magic system needs a Lot of work, as does balance and hooking up proper skills and abilities. Elemental also NEEDS to have a lot more variation on the amounts and kinds of Units in game. There needs to be a Lot More magical units, like Undead (see my Mod HERE), flying units, and more spell casting units.
The groundwork is Definitely there in Elemental. I can't wait to see what they come up with in terms of expansions and new content (especially FREE content). Probably the number one thing holding back Elemental as a game right now is the AI (sorry chief). I think Frogboy should have started working hardcore on the AI a lot sooner than he did. The AI is the most complex part of a game to program and get "right". If you make the game too hard, people complain, if you make it too easy, people complain. Also, as with ANY game, there's always going to be certain strategies that always win and give you the edge over the AI because we humans often use "cheese" tactics which can break the AI.
I think Elemental has the potential to be THE Fantasy Strategy game of our generation and once they reach that goal Elemental will surpass the legend that is MoM and take it's place as the Fantasy War game that goes down in history and is talked about by gamers for years and years to come. As a gamer the best thing you can do if you're looking at getting into Elemental is to get into it Now. Stardock does a GREAT job at listening to it's fans and players and incorporating their ideas into the game and game-play.
Don't listen to the bad hype that's surrounding the game right now. The sites that are saying that Elemental is "unplayable" are LYING. Yes, there are some people who are having trouble running it, but not nearly as many as some of the early reviews would have you believe. If you've got a decent system to run it on I don't think you'll have anything to worry about. The game IS FUN in it's current state and it has a strong sense of that "just one more turn" feeling when you've got a good game going.
I say go for it and don't hold back. If you're a fan of strategy games and fantasy games then this game is a dream come true and it's only going to get better from here.
Cheers, Raven X
No definitely not.
MOM has tons of interesting spells.. Ability to create magic items. Interesting magic system (Power channelled into mana/Skill/research) + interesting Tactical combat due to the ability to cast overland spells + tons of special abilities, interesting heroes
EWOM : Has spells that duplicate each other. No ability to create magic items. Magic system is boring .. No "global enchantments", no concept of mana upkeep instead you have "enchantment" slots.. You can only cast spells if your Soverign is around , or one of your champions is around who you have chose to embue. Most units don't have special abilities. Most champions in EWOM are weak, basically administrator types (Think The sage has opposed to Torin). Magic is weak and doesn't scale into the middle and late game..
The game worked fine for me as well, and I have no doubt it will eventually with a ton of patches become a decent game, but seriously it is not even close to being 1/10 as fun as MOM.
If you want to get the game don't think of it as MOM II, or you will be very disappointed.
I agree whit most that has been said here.
It's definitely not MoM enhanced, Elemental has its own charm. And it's a good thing IMHO because I still have MoM on my computer, if I want to play Mom, I just have to start it.
So far, despite its flaws (which are thing can all be fixed, especially since we have a really, really dedicated team), I had almost as much fun as on MoM. So like many other say, give it some time and it will be the fantasy game of the decade.
For me, Elemental already beats the crap out of Dominions3 (which I like also) and AoW.
Once:
AI
Balance (including tactical battles)
Dynasties
PvE (small adjusments)
Some polish on UI and feedback.
When this will be fixed, you will just love the game more than anything.
I will add something. Most people will agree the game is not as polished as it could be ATM. There is no reason to BUY it now, honestly. If you want to play a game - and this game was not out what would you do? Do that. Hold off. If and when the game gets better purchase it. Unless the money burns a hole in your pocket... is there a reason to throw it at an underdeveloped game that has mega potential but is not likely to shine for another month or two. In (I think its about 3 weeks) Civilization V comes out and a month later-ish Fallout Las Vegas. True Fallout Las Vegas is not a fanasy game (well i gues it kinda is) and its not a 4X game.
Ultimately speaking, read the reviews and remember that was less than a week ago. The last patch fixed alot of crashes, I guess. I got the game last night and had no crashes. However, this game bugs me still. The potential and lack of polish really bugs me at the same time.
Well. I got the game the day it came out, and been playing it ever since several hours a day, having fun. That's a pretty good reason to buy it methinks.
Not that i disagree that the game is unfinished - you can literally smell the potential for greatness that is just not there yet - but that does not mean the game isn't fun ATM, even unfinished as it is.
This game is no where near Master of magic or it's epicness, if you got this game thinking of master of magic like me, you'll totally disappointed. I got even more disappointed after hearing dev say they're not going to make the tactical battle deep or close to master of magic and other game but simple......
I 2nd this
No, Master of Magic's features are much more streamlined. Elemental is a bunch of more complex systems thrown together. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
No.
At least not yet and not without a lot of work from both the hardworking team at Stardock (who have managed to push out 3 patches and 2 hotfixes since the early release) and the hopefully dedicated modding community.
To wit...
Magic has *NO* personality
The overwhelming majority of single target spells are "does INT * shards of that type damage" and AoE ones follow the same mechanic. No cool stuff like doom bolt (ignoring all defense), cracks call (25% chance to instagib non-fliers), no battlefield buffs, no overland spells (VERY minimal town buffs that rapidly diminish in value). Worse a huge bug affects tactical combat making those "useful" elemental shards nearly worthless since they don't have any effect on spells that mention 'em. If you are opting for a min-maxed caster sovereign you can just gleefully select all spellbooks and take a couple of completely non-detrimental "bad" traits and just roll along your merry way. Just imagine a couple of bad retorts then being able to take all spellbooks in MoM.
Part of the huge draw of MoM is the ability to completely tailor your build. Want to make a magic item factory who's never out of mana? 2 spell books from each of 3 schools, runemaster, artificer and alchemist FTW! Perhaps Torin the Chosen and a huge buffer build works better? Go all life! There are so many usable and downright fun combinations that Elemental's bland "take everything" approach is just meh.
Recruited/built units are 1 dimensional
The overwhelming majority of the units you can research and build are bland and very weak/fragile. Yes you can modify their looks and starting equipment (the latter being insanely expensive) but short of exploiting some big bugs in the current system such as the ability to wear dozens of rings and amulets, they're a complete letdown. Worse, once you finally research how to make entire squads of elite units there's absolutely no impetus to use the design system. Just churn out tons of peasants and wear down any jerkwad you see. No special abilities, incredibly limited archery, no fantastic units (outside of summons).
Diplomacy is similarly simplistic
This is not to say that MoM was any paragon of diplomacy but at least there was some subtlety and granularity in the system. Elemental's version is mostly "gimme money or I'll attack" and "how much money should I give this jerk so I can track mud through his throne room". Sadly it's far too elemental (pun probably intended
Magic is a 98 pound weakling
As an adjunct to the above listed blanditude of magic, the entire system is just anemic. Want to make a magic heavy "nuker" of a sovereign? Good luck. Yeah, you can cheese the system by maxing out the adventuring tech tree ASAP so you can get the real money stuff like potions of essence and the big stat boost books combined with imbuing a couple of your "champions" (more on those later) so they can also cast spells. If you do that and rely primarily on auto resolve combat you'll steamroll most anything you run into. Tactical combat makes that much dicier and far more annoying.
To compound the problem is that your maximum mana is LOW. The absolute best you can start with is 15 with most single target damage spells being 2-3 per and AoE costing 5. You can add 3 essence (aka wisdom but only for the character creation screen) per level up which still means you'll end up with a paltry mid 70s by level 20. This sounds grand, doesn't it? Well, there's another HUGE caveat... your sovereign regenerates 1 mana per turn. Not combat turn (where absolutely no regen exists for you) but GAME turn. This means that if you blow your entire wad, it'll be 2-3 turns before you can do even ONE single target spell. This is unfathomable.
Champions are anything but... and still cost a fortune
Unlike even some of the more mediocre of MoM's low level heroes (Tumu anyone?) the "champions" in Elemental are fragile, weak and just never get better. There are two kinds of them... specialists (+1 gold per turn, +20% food bonus to a city, etc.) and "combat" ones that are tagged as adventurers or assassins. At first level (when you really need 'em, early in the game) they're fairly affordable but incredibly weak, ridiculously fragile and barely if even equipped with more than non-armor clothing and a low damage staff or dagger. Want to equip 'em? You need to research a couple deep into warfare or even further into magic to buy anything but the most craptacular gear and that takes time and money. So you'll end up with "heroes" that are just not worth the cost (unless you imbue 'em as above). They level just as pathetically as your sovereign does with a SINGLE attribute point to spend per level. Worse, their special ability (all one of them) never gets better. To wit, the "merchant" gives you +1 gilder per turn... forever. At the start this is pretty sweet, but by turn 200 it's pathetic.
Now if you have cash and are lucky enough to find a level 3 or 4 assassin or adventurer, the starting stats are exponentially better than their level 1 counterparts. Worse, there's absolutely no way to replicate these bruisers starting with a level 1 jerkwad, no matter how many stat books or potions you dump into them. Even then they are just a walking corpse waiting to find their killer... a well equipped one that you got at level 4 can still be easily killed by even a level 1 bandit or spider due to the horrible way defense works and the non-existent HP scaling. If you don't exploit the Mr. T Effect (as seen above by equipping dozens of rings, amulets and "trinkets" to use the WoW parlance) even a melee sovereign or "champion" who can dish out 200 damage per hit can still be felled by any number of very low level jerks.
The UI and the information it's supposed to give you is confusing, misleading and/or missing
Imagine this... you come to a "goodie hut" (think node or lair) and you can't entire because your "notable level is too low". WTF. Nowhere in the game is this explained. At all. It's easy if you have access to the forums, but outside of highlighting said "goodie" or trying to enter you don't even *KNOW* what your notable level is currently at.
That quest that you accepted 20 turns back but have you to do... so, uh, where do you go? The quest log (if we can even call it such) has nothing more than the description and whether it's active or completed. The only real way to see what remaining quest objectives you have left on the map is to enable the cloth map (either by zooming way out with your mouse scrollwheel or setting it to a lower threshold in the options) and even then it doesn't tell you which quest said objective is for. You'll get something like "This pub looks interesting" or something similarly obfuscating.
There are dozens if not hundreds of other examples of conflicting or lacking information but I'd have to engage in a wall of text 10x the size of this post to list them all. Suffice it to say that the game is suffering from severe schizophrenia inasmuch as it refuses to adhere to TBS standards for information presentation. Let's be honest, some wheels really don't need to be reinvented and most modern TBS, while homogeneous in many of the way they keep you informed, at least get the point across.
As it stands now, I really can't recommend the game to anyone except a real diehard fantasy TBS fan. There are so few games in this sub-genre that we are beholden to the axiom of "beggars can't be choosers".
Do I think it'll ever be worthy of the appellation of "spiritual success to MoM"? Quite possibly. Stardock has historically lavished a great deal of attention on their games, even outside of actual moneymakers (aka expansion packs). They've already managed to squash a large mass of bugs and can hopefully get a handle of some of pernicious ones that somehow made it to retail (the now infamous crash to desktop on alt-tab that still exists in 1.06). But as Master of Magic proved, even a very buggy initial release doesn't doom a game. Lack of focus, environment, polish and consistency will though.
Spend $56 and answer definitively for yourself.
I would guess you would conclude E:WoM is not a successor to MoM (you may or may not like E:WoM but its really different in many ways)
In regard to the OP, it isn't and it may or may not be. Obviously, I really, really want it to be, as would be evidenced by my persistent lurking of these forums. To tell you the truth, I sort of in a dazed and disillusioned state (that's how much I was looking forward to this game. Sad?) My greatest hope at the moment is that someone like Raven X will make a mod for the game that will be remarkable. The game so far is a mess by my perception which makes me wonder exactly how capable the dev team is in regard to making a viable fantasy game. Fortunately one thing the devs were very good at was making a comprehensive modding system.
Demiansky, you're not "sad" my friend. We've all put a lot into this game. I've put the last two years of my gaming hopes and dreams into Elemental. Cheer up brother, it's not that bad . You know ow Stardock is. Six months from now Elemental will be the masterpiece we all envisioned when we started down this long road. The launch hasn't been a smooth one for SD but they know how to bounce back like old pros. With all the talent and sheer game making power behind Stardock, and everything they have riding on Elemental, they can only go up from here. Just imagine what kind of game we'll have if they do Nothing but work on Elemental and it's expansions for the next year or two years, which Brad has already said that's what they'll be doing.
For Mods, there are a lot of long term mod projects in the beginning stages right now. I'd say it's a safe bet that I'm pretty "plugged in" to the elemental Modding Community. Already the community is pulling together, pooling our resources and knowledge, and working hard on the things we can until SD gives up the tools to import our own models and animations into the game, and there ARE some great models and animations being worked on by various teams, the Dragonlance Team included. Speaking of the DL Mod, I'll have a update/status report on that coming up tonight or tomorrow to let people know what's going on with our work schedule.
Have no fear brother, there are great things on the horizon both from SD and the Mod teams.
Really strange particularly since you go on to list all the ways it's NOT MOM
The Magic system needs a Lot of work, as does balance and hooking up proper skills and abilities. Elemental also NEEDS to have a lot more variation on the amounts and kinds of Units in game. There needs to be a Lot More magical units, like Undead (see my Mod HERE), flying units, and more spell casting units.I think when all is said and done Elemental will surpass MoM in every way. In some ways it already does, and in other ways it doesn't. The Magic system needs a Lot of work, as does balance and hooking up proper skills and abilities. Elemental also NEEDS to have a lot more variation on the amounts and kinds of Units in game. There needs to be a Lot More magical units, like Undead (see my Mod HERE), flying units, and more spell casting units.
You pretty much said.. it surpasses MOM in some ways.. except it doesnt have anything that made MOM fun.. ???
Definitely not. No matter if you think it's a good game or not, it's definitely a very different one than MoM. Both are fantasy TBS games with Civilization-like elements, but this is where the similarities end. All the features that make MoM great - races, special units, sophisticated spells, heroes with their special abilities, item creation, merchants and mercenaries, nodes and ruins defended by powerful units, Myrror etc. - are missing in Elemental.
Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic is much more similar to MoM, but still I wouldn't call it a spiritual successor.
A SPIRITUAL heir, yes. A MoM clone or MoM 2, no.
When it is flushed out and polished, I expect that Elemental will surpass MoM. I would also expect to see various MoM clones from the modding community.
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