Not posting to bash or trash the game. Just dispointed with the state its in and not interested in playing if that is supposed to be a finished game.
So where do I go for the refund that is supposedly available? I bought the game online via Impulse if that makes any difference.
Thanks.
email sales@stardock.com
It would seem that refunds are only offered when due to purely technical problems. In my quest for a refund, this is the response:
Please review our refund policy located at: https://store.stardock.com/policy.aspx We offer full refunds for Stardock products after technical support is utilized and is not able to resolve any technical issues you have. Specifically, we need to know: 1) Your product name and your subscription/serial number 2) Your hardware configuration (video card and CPU are the most important ones) 3) What version of Windows you are running 4) A complete detailed report of the issue including any errors that you received and how the problem can be replicated Please reply to this email with the information described above. If technical problems cannot be worked out by reasonable means, technical support will instruct you on how to receive a full refund. If you do not wish to work with support on technical problems, or you do not have any technical issues, I can only offer a partial (75%) refund. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. Curt Hendzell Consumer QA Manager Stardock Corporation http://impulsedriven.com/
So it would seem that the standard reply in this forum in the form of "STFU and go get at refund" is not really an option. And it would also seem that Stardock does not live up to the standards that they are so busy touting in their Gamers Bill of Rights.
Offcourse, I could get at 75% refund, but somehow that just doesnt live up to the impression I get regarding Stardocks fantastic refund policy. I've bought the game directly on Impulse, so its not like they need to retract some retailers cut from the amount.
So is this the officiel Stardock policy towards customers who prefer not to pay for beta-state releases? Do we have to eat at 25% loss because Stardock sells an unfinished product?
EDIT: Sorry, double post.
http://www.gamersbillofrights.org/
#1 Gamers have the right to return a game that does not function or is incompatible with their machine or does not perform at a reasonable level of performance within a reasonable time.
"I didn't like it" would not fall into that. We still offer partial refunds. You not liking the game does not make the game a "beta". In the future, I would recommend waiting for a demo.
Your other option would be to opine what sorts of things would make you happy with the game so that the development team can try to address those needs.
I am hit by a fair amount of crashes and game slowdown as the game progresses. These are issues that anyone reading here would know are quite a general problem for many players. Those are not my main reason for wanting a refund, but if it makes a difference lets just use that reason instead.
One thing is certain: If this is the policy, then I wont consider rebuying the game in 6-12 months when its been fixed and completed.
For now, I'll take the matter to Paypal instead and request they withdraw the payment due to delivery of a product that does not live up to the description and I'd recommend anyone else that payed that way to do the same.
This response has completely destroyed any good faith StarDock might have ever built with me. Brad and the rest of the team are fully aware of the state the game is in and the number of game-ending bugs users are experiencing on a variety of platforms. Making customers jump through hoops to get a refund for a game with such pervasive and well documented issues is disingenuous and underhanded, and makes me seriously reconsider the possibility of ever buying something from this company again. And I say that as someone who is *not* contemplating a refund, even though those same bugs make it impossible to complete a full game. I paid for beta access and frankly consider this state of the game's release a continuation of that, but expecting someone who paid for a finished product to continue to devote their time and attention to helping StarDock fix the broken product they received is beyond the pale.
Stardock should be offering full refunds for digital downloads of this product no questions asked, and for physical purchases with the return of the game disks. Even if someone takes advantage of the lack of copy protection, without the continuing updates they won't have a fully playable product, so there is no concern about exploiting the system for a free game.
Sshh guys , the -25% were to pay Sean Ridgeley the reviewer from Neoseeker .
it clearly says that you can get a refund if the game has performance issues AND is not fixed within a reasonable amount of time. the game has been out for a little over a week. do you think that is reasonable?
Depends on the definition of reasonable.
(I admit : trolling ,for the fun of it )
true better w8 for the version 1.1 it promises alot
I can't currently play the game due to performance issues. I mean I seriously have a piece of software I cant play past 200 turns. But I am going to hold out and hope for the best.
I realise that the Bill of Rights have been changed since originally used to clobber other companies on the head. Here is the original:
http://www.next-gen.biz/blogs/the-gamers-bill-rights
2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
This game is not finished. Not even close to it. But it would seem that my right is purely to demand the game is finished at release, and if Stardock chooses to ignore my demand then thats just tough luck for me (and everyone else that expect to get a finished game when the pay for it).
This has later been changed to be:
2. Gamers shall have the right to that games they purchase shall function as designed without technical defects that would materially affect the playing experience. This determination shall be made by the player.
Wow, talk about a rubber paragraph. All the developers have to do is claim that their unfinished game was designed to be so poorly balanced, devoid of content and without a functioning AI. Well, except for the second sentence:
This determination shall be made by the player.
I'm the player and I determine that EWOM is not functioning as designed. There are technial defects that materially affect my playing experience. As an example (one of many) I present the problem of AI's dysfynctionality. The AI will either do nothing and let you walk all over it OR it will be bugged in a way that allows it to spend unlimited amounds of Gildar by going into a huge deficit. In the latter case they can then swarm you with the ally type units that can be bought for Gildar (spiders, sions, dragons and so on).
I defy the developers to tell us that this kind of AI behavior is "functioning as designed"! Does anyone from Stardock have the nerve to make a post here telling us that the AI is supposed to work like that? If not, then give me my refund.
So you have a problem with them enforcing their (rather reasonable) return policy? Might I point out that most major publishers won't even give a partial refund unless you email their CEO or jump through 500 hoops?
You're angry becuase in order to get a free refund they require confirmation in the form of "trying to help get it running on your system?"?
You do know that consumer protection laws only require refund in the event the product is defective (poor game balence does not count, nor does not liking it). Stardock is going above and beyond what is required of them by offering a 75%! refund on a non defective product.
I've already stated quite clearly that if the game one days reaches a state where its worth buying, I will consider buying it again. But that obviously depends on whether Stardock stand by their CEO's fancy Gamers Bill of Rights and are willing to live up to it. If they fine me 25% of the purchase price for a refund on a defective product, then I'm not buying anything again later.
[ quote who="JesperEB" reply="12" id="2749224"]I'm the player and I determine that EWOM is not functioning as designed. There are technial defects that materially affect my playing experience. As an example (one of many) I present the problem of AI's dysfynctionality. The AI will either do nothing and let you walk all over it OR it will be bugged in a way that allows it to spend unlimited amounds of Gildar by going into a huge deficit. In the latter case they can then swarm you with the ally type units that can be bought for Gildar (spiders, sions, dragons and so on). I defy the developers to tell us that this kind of AI behavior is "functioning as designed"! Does anyone from Stardock have the nerve to make a post here telling us that the AI is supposed to work like that? If not, then give me my refund. [/quote]
Which is why they are offering a refund.
I asked from the very beginning for a refund with the reason that the product is unfinished, and I referred to the Gamers Bill of Rights, as explained above. I'm not angry that the customer support employee is offering to help me work out any technical problems that prevent the game from running. Thats fine and would be much apreaciated if the main problem with the game was purely technical. Besides, angry is such a strong work.
I am unsatisfied to find out the I have been sold an unfinished piece of software, and now have to pay a 25% fine if I want my money refunded.
No they're not. If I was offered a refund, this discussion wouldnt be taking place.
I'm on the same boat, Jasper. They want to fine me 25% for trying to return an unfinished beta product.
Look If you walk into bestbuy and buy a game, and then decide you don't like it; they will laugh you out of the store if you want a refund. Box is opened, to bad to sad. If its defective, they will give you a new one. YOU DO NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK.
Stardock is offering you a 75% refund with outgoing through their full refund process. In the retail world that is called a restocking fee. Yes they don't have a physical copy to restock but supporting it has cost them time and money.
They are offering you a refund, two refunds infact. A partial 75% one no hassle and a full 100% one with the requirement that you having technical difficulites(and seek support first).
That is a refund.
I dont know about you, but I live in a country (Denmark) where anything bought through mail-order, internet sales and similar sales channels come with a law-determined 14 day period where you can return it for a full refund without needing to justify that request in any way. This law is in effect for anyone who sells anything to consumers living in Denmark, no matter where in the world the company has its headquarters. That means that Stardock is required by law to fully refund the purchase on the condition that I delete it from my computer. Otherwise they could technically be sued and forced send a high-priced lawyer all the way to Denmark in order to lose the case and the be forced to refund the game.
Now, I'm a realist, so I am aware that a lawsuit obviously is out of the question for small change like the amount we are talking about here. However, that doesnt change the fact that Stardock are breaking a law that they are obligated to obey since they have chosen to sell their products in the country that law covers. Not that this will have any real consequence, since the matter is way to small to actually consider taking any action. But it sure is food for thought that they are willing to break the laws protecting consumers in the countries they do business.
Feel free to study the details if you can read Danish. The relevant information is in §19, which deals with the right to return products.
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms/R0710.aspx?id=1843
let me see if im getting this. you bought a game, you tried for...what, a week?(time in which LOTS of bugs have already been fixed,and already working to fix the rest,plus new stuff to make the game even more enjoyable), you decide you dont like it,based on a whim or whatever (lets face it, the bugs are nowhere near the level to make you not enjoy this game if you like the type. and btw, civ 4 in latter game slowed down to a crawl to maaany players too). then you ask a refund ,and complain they take a 25% because there is no real reason for you not to wait 2 weeks so they can fix the bugs you are complaining about. did i get it right? (sorry if i made mistakes while making this post, english is not my native language )
Peace and love my friends ! Flower power !
Yes, I wish a refund as is my right by the consumer proctection laws of the country I live in. Laws that Stardock are obligated to follow as they sell their product directly to consumers here, via their internet platform.
Not that it should be necesary to invoke a law in order to get a refund for an unfinished product.
Ah that explains it then. That is something you should bring up much eariler in a converstaion like this.
I was thinking the only logical reason for your expectations would be if you lived in a country with much stronger consumer protection laws.
As a persecpetive check - Where I live and where Stardock is based out of the laws and industry norms are that a person in a situation like your self would be told to stfu and go away - you are not legally entitled to anything. Which is why I expressed some incredulity at your demand for a 100% refund over a 75% one.
State side a 75% no questions asked refund on a software product is a god send.
Stardock Policy and their gamers bill of rights reflect the consumer culture here, where no refund is the norm. thats why they say and stand by gamers getting a refund in those situtations.
As you have an legitimate reason for your expectations I will recuse my self from this conversation - as I still agree with Stardocks handling of the situation.
Maybe you people should offer a demo, then.
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