Edit: Please read the entire thread before posting (or at least some of it) and not just relate to this message, as things have changed and addressed several times in it since I first started it. Thanks!
I tried playing Galciv 2 with all the patches and expansions a few days ago, and I got bullied and wiped out by the AI in normal difficulty. I remember having the same issue with the first Galciv as well when I tried playing the updated version of it some time ago as well.
Brad, or anyone else which reads this: Stardock seems to always listen to the 'Hardcore' war-mongering fans which complain about how easy the game is, how passive the AI is, and how this is too strong, and that is not balanced. Elemental was actually just fine before the patch, but the process has started already - you took out the summoning spells, which could actually help me out survive and actually gave me an alternative to building an army.
I wanted a game in which I could actually defend and slowly expand while slowly leveling my sovereign, but unless I build an army and maintain it as soon as I'm able, that is no longer possible without the summoning spells. Before I'll know it, you will listen to the fans and the game will, again, become a war-fest filled with bullies that attack you from turn 0.
This happened so many times before, and it looks like it is going to happen this time again. If I wanted a pure wargame, I'd buy one. That is actually disappointing. As a long time fan and supporter since the times of the first GalCiv, I don't think I'll buy your next expansion or game you guys make any more, I think I've had enough virtual masochism to last me quite a while
Play on Easy?
If I remember correctly, the AI on Normal in the GalCiv games were *handicapped*. They had penalties to their resources and/or you had bonuses to yours.
Now, I'm not the best player to begin with, I usually don't go above the first two difficulty in the Civ games, but this game? On Normal the game is over as soon as you research the Party and Weaponry techs because you now have an unstoppable autoresolve stack with your super-duper teleporting Transport hero.
That said, that's a problem with the current battle system making the Hero/Champions kinda worthless compared to regular unit stacks.
Excuse me, sir, are you a troll?
Whatever, you can always lower the difficulty... That's what difficulty levels are for.
i am 110% sure the community will make wonderfull maps and balance the weapons/items etc stuff for us.
i am personally doing a mod for this game at a later date 70% done, and its going to be amazing.
Is this a joke post?
Either way take the hit in pride and go down a difficulty level
Funny it reminds me of when I fired up Master of Magic last week with an unofficial fan patch and while I was exploring monsters came and destroyed my city in turn 5. It then happened 3 times in a row, I could never get a decent start location. The funny thing was this didn't frustrate me, it actually made me chuckle that a game over a decade old was kicking my ass on normal when most modern day games I breeze through on the hardest difficulty.
I wouldn't worry too much right now the you can easily beat even a ridiculous AI. On my last game two AI went to war and marched their Sovs into my undefended main city. Yeah undefended sure I teleported back and took them both down. Bam 2 AI down 4 to go.
This may be a TBS and a kingdom builder of sorts but that doesn't mean you cans skimp on millitary. Get some research into promoted troops (forgot what it's called) and groups of troops you'll do fine. Galciv used to kick my arse till I got the hand of building my own units.
Please look at my profile, I am here since 2003, I am no troll.
Guys, playing on Easy or similar difficulty level just causes the AI to sit and do nothing, and say YES MASTER to everything I ask, which is not a solution to the problem. I want some challenge, but not to drown in threats and battles from the first turn.
The problem is the AI, which becomes more and more combative and war-mongering and the options for peaceful resolutions are diminishing more and more as the game is updated just to please the hardcore fans (such as you, I guess).
You're asking for something at total cross purposes. So you want a challenge, but you don't want a challenge from the AI? Either the AI threatens you or it doesn't, you can't have it both ways.
If Easy is too Easy, put some AI to normal and some to easy, tinker with the world size, the map difficulty, the number of AI in the game. Research diplomacy techs and invest in alliances with the AI.
If you want a peaceful builder game, give something like Anno 1404/Dawn of Discovery a try (an awesome game), but games like Elemental/Civ/GC2/et al are part builder, part wargame, always have been.
Well you need some muscle for diplomacy.
Maybe get in the habit of building up a military to detour the other powers. I've played enough games of Galciv2 on Challenging to know that if I build a decent force and get an ally soon enough, I never really get into any major wars or conflicts. In fact I've never gotten a conquest victory in Galciv2, it's always been tech or mega-alliance.
It also doesn't hurt to do some power brokering by making other nations fight themselves in pointless wars by offering techs and cash.
Lord Nova, I think you're the exact kind of fan I was referring to. You want your challenge no matter what, all the others can just 'lower the difficulty'. My issue is not with you are the fans that think like you do, my issue is with Stardock which listen and update their games according to your opinions.
You could argue, but the fact that remains is that these games were just fine when they were first out the door (with a few patches to address serious bugs), but have become and more war-centric as they were updated, and that is not really fair for people like me who bought the games just to have some fun building an empire, researching, and using diplomacy. I don't believe Stardock just want to create war-games, I always believed they wanted to create something more, and that is why I started as a fan back at 2003, since the first Galciv actually allowed me play the game without fighting all the time unlike the games of that era, and that, disappointingly, has changed.
Considering how easy it is to mod Stardock games you can create improvements in gal civ 2 to give yourself exactly the game style you want.
Harder settings are for those who risk defeat , and as someone pointed out , if you cannot accept being beaten , then you do not really want a challenge.
I loved GalCiv2 and found normal difficulty to be just fine. I DO NOT play a warmonger, I usually play a industrial capitalist with some decent diplomacy and a small but strong standing army. I do the same thing in Elemental and I'm not having too many problems (although I did lose my last game).
It might be difficult to expand slowly because the AI is going to expand quickly, however, you really don't have to play this game any one way. It's quite versitile.
Give the game more time, play on a lower difficulty, and learn how to improve your playing style.
Also, as everyone has basically stated, there is going to be warfare elements in any strategy game like this (see GalCiv2, Civilization, Age of Empires, Superpower, Universalis...). Warfare is a fact of life and a MAJOR component in civilization's history. To ignore it would be a disservice to the customers and the genre.
I suggest you make some "friendly" custom civilizations who lack military strength and who focus more on diplomacy. That way you won't be playing with evil Empires and overambitious Kingdoms. You'll certainly want the World Difficult on it's lowest too and might want to find/make a mod that weakens the monsters.
I play a fully updated version of Galciv 2 regularly and almost never need to go to war, so I don't really think that the game is only for war mongers.
Mtrixis, I disagree with your last paragraph.
The entire reason I joined as a fan back in the day was becuase the first Galciv actually allowed me to win diplomatically and economically, almost as good as Alpha Centauri was.
But that has changed over the years, as the games became more and more war-centric in my opinion, while leaving behind all the other great ways to win the game.
This is not something I decided over night, it is a long issue I kept to myself until now - Stardock games start excellent, and become wargames as they are updated, in my opinion.
History has shown that you need some defensive capabilities in order to have any influence or safety.
Show me a country without military power and it will either cease to exist in short order or is already a vassal state to another country with a powerful military.
I understand both sides of this argument. What we need is an Aggressiveness mod tweak Or option in the menu. Something to tweak how aggressive they are but not change their actual intelligence or resources etc. As a way to add or take away difficulty and tailor the game to your style.
And everyone stop flaming eachother it solves nothing try to come up with solutions. He's an loyal customer just like i have always been and his opinion shouldn't be put under intensive scrutiny Yes you should scrutinize it but don't outright tell him hes wrong and should just play on easy.
But on the otherhand Gormoth. Please reframe from insulting others just because they enjoy war its pointless. Infact your starting a small scale conflict in which both sides are responsible but nonetheless refuse to take blame. So please can we all just relax and have a meaningful and suggestion or at least help filled discussion.
Maybe someone can post a modified A.I file with lowered aggressiveness on normal for him if they have the time If i knew what values determined it i'd do it myself.
lol I'll take that as a compliment
In reality though you have to build some type of force or else how are the other nations suppose to take you seriously?
I almost always play as Humans in Galciv2 with the diplomatic advantages, thanks to those I always have a military strength in the middle but am able to power broker and use cunning to keep in the mix. Even if you prefer to turtle and build an empire you still need some ships orbiting planets.
Heck even in civilization you can't get by unless you build at least 1 defence unit in each city or else all the nations just walk all over you.
It sounds to me that you want to get through the game without building a single military unit but that's just unrealistic, why would any galactic power especially the dregs or Yor take you seriously. I'm usually the last guy in my games to build a military unit (I super tech up there while using diplomacy to keep them at bay). I then build a medium capitol ship that I place in all my planets as a show of force, I rarely go to war but you have to have a show of force.
Did you think the Russians did all those parades in the 1980s down red square with their arsanel for fun? It was a show of force to the world. Granted it ended up bankrupting them but that's what you get when you don't keep an eye on upkeep.
Even the Federation in Star Trek has a fleet and they are the biggest tree huggers in the galaxy.
Oh man...
A game can never please everyone, that's for sure.
The most important thing I'm looking for in Stardock games is their challenging AIs. If military power wins against a player like Gormoth1, then the AI should go for it!
That said, AI behavior is governed by the modifiable xmls. Maybe someone could mod more peaceful factions for you to compete against.
Absolutly correct about the agro mod and in Gal Civ 2 when you use the built in game editor that is one of the settings you can adjust from 1 - 100.
I expect it will be in one of the future patches or expansions.
I'm glad to see this thread take abit better nature. Well there will likely be an Aggression mod or built in feature until then. Its 3 AM for me but tomorrow i will look into the A.I and see if i can edit the aggression for you. I make no promises just that i might try if i fail you probably won't hear anything about it if i succeed i'll post here or in a new thread *if this one is locked down*
Anyways. I think everyone misunderstood him I do not think he meant he wanted No military. I understand his view its just that he wanted afew men to be enough in the beginning as in 'How the F*** does the A.I have 20 men already? i only have 5 defending my town' and then they diplomatically all declare war on him spontainiously and attack.
Its understandable to be abit angry. Granted theres logical thought in their actions but in reality it doesn't apply. People don't go to war senselessly particularly if their trade allies or if that other nation has a strong leader. Yet no matter how strong my sovereign is I even tested it by modding the unit file. He can be the equal to over 40 soldiers and they'll still declare war and think they can just march in.
It does get abit ridiculous. No offense to those whom enjoy war. I do as well but i enjoy war that i can win and not to be ganged on even by kingdoms and empires for seemingly no reason that i enjoyed good diplomacy with thus far.
So his point of view is understandable. But on a logical *purely logical* way of thinking so is the more war orientated and more then likely in a post apocolyptic world it is likely that people will be more willing to war over resources.
So in the end both sides have their own point to make and we just need a modifiable variable.
Sorry for my lack of grammar my grammar is normally poor and its 3 AM. Thank you all for your time for reading my post and have a nice night i'm off to bed.
Thank you, Sethfc, your post was excellent and actually very contributing. You cheered me up, thank you. You really understand my issue.
But just to add address what you've said - I wasn't trying to insult anyone, I was merely stating my opinion in the most peaceful way I can under the circumstances. I believe everyone should have their share of fun out of the game, except I feel players like me are out of the equation and I feel this is unfair.
I do believe there should be a way to tweak the aggressiveness of the AI players, without compromising their difficulty in other aspects.
Lord Nova and IDMopman, while this may be true for real-life, that is not why I joined and started as a Stardock fan back in the day. I want battles, but I don't want just battles.
Vallu751, again, that is not fair. If Stardock's games would start out that way from day 1, then I would agree with you and simply stop buying Stardock games. But I believe that they want to create games that will also cater to players like me.
Good point.
If you have a problem with the level of aggression in Galciv2, just edit the races or make you're own races that use the Torian AI or the Drath AI with basically 0 aggression and all good or neutral.
Granted Elemental doesn't have that now but then again neither did Galciv2 at launch.
All I know is I almost never build military ships for 2-4 years ingame time which made me think I was a rather passive player but apparently I'm a warmonger.
I didn't mean to imply you're a warmonger, I felt that I was under a bit of flaming and I was merely trying to defend myself a bit. Sorry.
I think Sethfc best described my issue with the game:
'Anyways. I think everyone misunderstood him I do not think he meant he wanted No military. I understand his view its just that he wanted afew men to be enough in the beginning as in 'How the F*** does the A.I have 20 men already? i only have 5 defending my town' and then they diplomatically all declare war on him spontainiously and attack.
It does get abit ridiculous. No offense to those whom enjoy war. I do as well but i enjoy war that i can win and not to be ganged on even by kingdoms and empires for seemingly no reason that i enjoyed good diplomacy with thus far".
I really have nothing to add to that, this post is simply accurate in my case and that is exactly what I meant to say when I first started this thread.
I didn't take any offence at being called a warmonger so no need for apologies, it's just that my play style rarely has me starting wars but I sure as hell finish them.
It sounds to me like you need to re-evvaluate what is an adequate starting defence and incorperate that into the city building. If you're just buliding up and building up with reletively weak defences, then it makes you a juicy target. There's a civ4 quote of Aristophanes
Any 4x game is based upon the idea that you're in open competition with countries lead by imearalistic dictatorship. In other words if you've got something they want they'll take it from you if they see an opportunity.
Having no reasonable defence makes you a prime target because as far as they're concerned there's no downside.
city would give us +20 gold - good.
We can take it without threat of retalliation - excellent, lets go take it.
If the AI didn't behave like this i'd consider it to be stupid. The only caviate would be if they're meant to be peaceful.
Nova, I understand what you mean, but let me try a different approach to explain my point of view: I play Rome Total War. A LOT. I love basking in never ending wars there, because that is what the game is all about. There is no 'Total War' in the title for nothing.
Stardock games, I believe, shouldn't be about waging endless wars and building considerable defenses, while trying to defend my land from multiple fronts because the AI considered me as a juicy target. I am looking for different aspects to enjoy when I play their games. I don't want Anno games, like Mtrixies pointed out, I want an empire builder that also contains combat but doesn't force me to rely on constantly pumping out defenses to prevent the AI from ganging up on me, because I don't want to play that way in this sort of game, especially since I feel the games started out just fine and became that way more and more as the updates progressed.
My playstyle worked just fine in GalCiv 1 and 2 before the patches, and it also worked just fine in Alpha Centauri in the first or second difficulty levels. I don't mind lowering the difficulty in order to prevent the AI from behaving that way, as long as it won't cause the AI to become a sniveling yes-man, and in Alpha Centauri, for example, it doesn't.
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