For everyone who has Elemental whether you love the game, hate it or somewhere in-between we now have a poll up to see how the community at large feels.
https://www.elementalgame.com/journals
I voted i love it.
I don't mind giving some cash to a company who really needs it, expecially since i'm an developer myself.
Stardock can have my $$$ (well € Euros) anytime. This is Stardock, they will improve it greatly in a short amount of time.
Wish this poll was made sticky, and or that more people would vote! 800 people is a very small sample size atm.
Bingo.
At first I thought it was awesome and was excited about the potential, then once the 'new game excitement' wore off and I got deeper into it - I can't believe the number of major issues.
This is the most incomplete game I have bought in a long, long time. This is definitely a major blow to Stardock's reputation - hopefully they can redeem themselves down the road by improving this game. I think I'm going to bury this game on the shelf and come check it out in a few months.
When are you going to make the game not terrible? I ask this seriously - I read the patch notes hoping there'd be fixes. The UI is awful - which is a substantial step up from the abomination it was earlier in (apparently now pay-for) beta, but it still presumes someone already knows what they're doing (and I love Civilization, so I'm not exactly in the dark on most of the basics here); in which case, why have a UI at all? They can memorize keyboard shortcuts from some fansite! This is a basic design failure that makes beginning the game a non-starter. I don't need a Baby's First Videogame dialog, but maybe something that doesn't presume I am on the dev team would be nice. Valve has a Friends and Family test - they sit down friends and family and have them play their game in development, with no coaching, and take extensive notes. I can't help but think "struggling with basic tasks" wouldn't scream at you guys from such an encounter.
Someone suggested the campaign as a bit of a tutorial; I can only presume that this is a joke and the punchline is me. Found a city, check. Build a farm, check. Next quest objective? Nothing. Maybe I need to grow my city? So about 50 turns or so later of nothing, I attack the little spider (not the big one, the little one) with the three peasents and champions/heroes/Soverign+scribe+farmer and get wiped out. Turns out he has 0 attack. Maybe equipping him with a 1 damage weapon since it's the VERY FIRST MISSION EVER might be a great safety railing?
I enjoyed GalCiv 2. I enjoyed SOSE even though the game amounts to GET A CAP SHIP AND GO (Entrenchment didn't change that for me). I enjoyed Demigod, even though it took months of patches for you guys to figure out the save function (favor point purchase glitch?). What I read before launch read that combat in this is the same - BUILD MEAT AND GO - I think you missed a lot of feedback in the beta by postponing bug fixes (which I could understand if you were adding/removing functionality that might obviate the need for bugs fixed, but then you posted that it takes one dev a half day to bugfix - uhhhh, large swaths of beta testing/feedback rendered inert as a cost on one hand, 4 hours * 1 dev time as the countercost... I read that post as a self-slap in the face that didn't register). Good luck on your next endeavor, but I can't talk myself into talking my friends into your games, and I've now drifted into wondering if I should buy the next game that will sit underplayed on my Impulse launcher.
Also, it's just awful that Impulse uses embedded IE controls. I couldn't comment on the post with Medium-High Internet Zone security settings and had to lower it. Good job. The side links also don't work... why do you need anything besides standard HTML to link me to an anchor?
SOSE and Demigod were published by Stardock, but not developed by them, this is their first in house title since GalCiv II. I do have to agree about a lot of the feedback from beta being missed out on, apparently about six months worth as to delay the title would have meant releasing in February, but if that's what it takes to live up to your reputation it could potentially hurt you more not to if you can afford it from a financial standpoint. The game that hit store shelves in some alternate universe in February could have had the polish and fun factor that some people expected when they purchased a Stardock title. Instead no matter how well the game improves the reviews it will get on it's boxed copy might well lead to lackluster sales.
I voted "I'm disappointed with it.". I am doing this specifically because I have not given up on the game yet and believe there is a lot of room for improvement. I hope the poll results show that a lot of others feel the same way currently.
There are lots of things I could bring up as issues, but my biggest is the tactical combat. It's just not fun compared to MoM. Add more special abilities (and not just this creature does X damage) that are unique and force you or your opponent to change up your gameplan a little. Look at MoM and other tactical battle games like Heroes of Might & Magic and you will see that almost all their units have special abilities that make combat fun and interesting. Matching attack vs defense stats should be part of it, but not all of it.
I voted "I don't like it". Even though, since I spent good money on it, I really, really want to.
I come back to the game once every day, but sadly, after the first ten turns, the UI and the general ugliness of the game get to me. Someone needs to explain to me why some of the buttons are just so TINY.
One of the main issues with Stardock games-- GalCiv and Elemental-- is that their backstories just aren't very good. Forget about the ridiculous names. Take a quick comparison between Elemental's incomprehensible hodgepodge of fantasy tropes and the utterly compelling story behind Alpha Centauri. Or compare the quotes used in these two games. The difference in the quality of writing is so stark, it's embarassing. GalCiv was a better attempt, but it still had a weaker story than Master of Orion.
Basically, whoever is conceptualising Elemental's lore isn't a very good fantasy writer. I know they got Random House in on the picture with some book, which I haven't read, so perhaps that book is a lot better than whatever is in the game, but right now, as a game player and avid fantasy and sci-fi reader, I have to say this is C-grade stuff!
Public opinion polls in Canada tend to use 2000ish people, and that's to cover a population of 30 million.
If you look at the number of regular posters on the Elemental forums (even from just this week and not the much quieter beta period), this is a HUGE sample in comparison. A lot of people we don't hear from have taken this poll.
Short of emailing everybody who has registered the game and asking them to vote, I'm not sure how much wider it can get.
I voted disappointed. Not because of bugs, I haven't encountered any serious ones yet. Not because of the UI, even thoughit is a little rough in some places and needs some work, it is sufficient for now. Not because of the graphics or art style, I pretty much like it the way it is. Not because of the setting, I applaud Stardock for doing something different (I still would like some more different factions, but I'm sure mods and expansions will add plenty). Not even because of the campaign, even though it is apparently more of a tutorial but at the same time does not play anything close to how the sandbox is played. It is because the heart of the game, the sandbox mode, just doesn't feel compelling or immersive. I haven't been as excited about a game as I was about Elemental for years, and I absolutely hated that I had to wait until yesterday before I could play it. But I think it is very telling that I don't feel terribly compelled to start the game today, while usually when I get a new game the first few days I play it just about every opportunity I get.
My expectations may have been way to high. When I first learned about Elemental back in 2008, how it was going to make you the ruler of a nation in a RPG world, I thought it sounded amazing. I imagined little woodland outposts, charming rural villages, busytowns and beautiful cities, all with populations you had to keep happy. I expected to be dealing with scheming nobles, mad wizards and invading hordes, and dealing with them through force, diplomacy or magic. I thought of great armies clashing total war style, with dragons soaring overhead, heroes leading the charge and sovereigns casting epic spells from across the field.
I have been closely following the development since then, and adjusted my expectations through the process. But still I was very exited. Even when the combat system was changed to 'old school' turn based. As long as the main game was interesting enough that wouldn't bother me so much. When I didn't see much of what I was hoping for in the final stages of the beta, I started to get worried. But Stardock assured us that their internal build was way more fun, that we would see when we got the game.
Unfortunately what we got is a game where you build the same generic city after city, so you can build a strong economy, so you can build a strong military, and then proceed directly towards the victory condition of you choice. Armies consist of two types of units, melee units armed with the best weapons and armor you can afford, and ranged units, with the occasional hero or monster for support. The magic spellbooks are pretty much identical, the only thing guiding which direct damage spells to use is what shard you happen to find.
The above is pretty harsh, as there are a lot of things to like in the game. I like designing your own troops (although you need to be able to make more interesting choices). I like the art style and graphics (seriously, kudos for those). I don't mind the economic system, although it needs balancing (and I'll probably use a mod that makes it more settlers like when such a thing is made). There are a lot of things to like and the game has a lot of potential, but right now it doesn't live up to expectations.
Agreed.
I think the %s we're seeing now won't change much. The numbers haven't moved much.
Well said, Satrhan. I voted "I liked it" because I do, I even love parts of it. So while I didn't vote disappointed, I agree with everything else you said. What your paragraph describes is epic and what I was hoping for. In it's current state, the game isn't there (yet).
Small map + 8 AI and you won't have the cushion room of building an economy up. I started on a large peninsula, getting 2 cities before noticing an AI blocked me in by building a city at the tip of it. I fought as long as I could - making my city into a giant wall from sea to sea and put all my army on it. The blocking AI began to ask for compensations. After 3 bribes I stood up and shouted no. He declared war -- his economy (since he could expand) was much higher than mine, yet I held my forward city for 50 turns of heavy combat.
I've been a bit disappointed and I am usually very resilient and pain-resistant in terms of design deficits when it comes to TBS games simply because there are not enough of those out there these days. That disappointment however is just a result of stacking frustrations occurring during playing the campaign - I did not play the main game yet because I sincerely hoped for some epic story.
In my opinion it would have been better to introduce a pure tutorial map which would also explain every aspect of the game, alot players these days are ad-hoc learners who learn through doing the things themselves instead of reading about it. The campaign part should have been separated and being richer. The story should have been a bit more arcing. Instead of disconnected and loosely connected stages it would have been better to stick to mini-arcs.
The UI was one of my biggest gripes, while it does what it should in most areas I feel that in general had a clunky, inconsistent and the whole opposite of sleek feel to it. For once it does not hurt to have more highlighting. Knowing what you point at is in my opinion very important, the second important thing is a response. I want to know that my click actually just was acknowledged visually (think of buttons). I should also have the possibility to actually cancel any action in progress - this is why tactical combat confused the hell out of me. Sometimes the whole combat would be stuck with me accidentally clicking elsewhere and getting an unexpected response which sometimes ended with units running into their deaths without me being able to prevent it at all, another time I couldn't click anywhere or getting any response out of it so I had to press Next Turn/Auto-Resolve or in case the battle seemed to be totally stuck - with neither Auto-Resolve or Next Turn doing anything: Kill the game via task manager. Since we are already at the tactical combat section - not being able to quit and reload seems to be odd. Seriously most of the time I battled more with the UI than with monsters.
Last but not least I feel that tactical combat is very...simple. Which can be a good and bad thing altogether. I expected to be able to pre-position my units and have a little more flow - in the end I found auto-resolve just sufficient and ALOT less hassle.
Now this won't turn me into a fanatic tinfoil-hatting "I trusted you for 7 years and now this!" hater. Lord knows I've played games which I paid more for and were alot more disappointing and a real trust-killer. I just hope that in case GC3 is coming that alot lessons will be learned from here.
Well I don't know if I'll be eager to be on the bleeding edge of a Stardock release again, but I can at least play the game until I decide to stop now, instead of experiencing something game stopping and getting frustrated and not wanting to mess with it any more.
I simply don't.
i don't like it at all.
There isn't one single feature which makes this game better than Master of Magic or Age of Wonders 2. So its very existence is mostly meaningless.
Two: Unlike the mentioned games, this one has an active dev team behind it, and is highly moddable by the public.
A game shouldn't need to be modded to make it fun. Not that elemental isn't fun, it just doesn't seem to bring that much new to the genre.
When i heard about the game i was hopeing for real RPG turn based strategy fusion, what we have right now is a pale shadow of that. Mostly because the RPG element of the game can more or less be ignored with almost no detriment to your chance of winning.
Oh and the magic system is far too generic, populous style magic would've been much more fun.
I voted disappointed, but i have hope for the game in the future.
I voted disappointed with it.
Actually the more the days goes by the more i'm fearing it may never become what we all hoped it would be.
So many things gone wrong that it would take months of development to fix them. And by fixing i don't mean squashing bugs but actually making the game fun (champions, magic, city building, you know it all by now).
I surely hope stardock will manage it but i can't help fearing that a majour overhaul may came with a paid expansion. Or not at all if sales figures will be too low.
Crossing fingers here anyhow. Like many others my stance is "i want to like this game, really"
Oh yes i agree. The game is definitely bare-bones and need alot of meat added to it before it can de-throne the likes of MOM. However the foundation is solid, and i have no doubt it will be built upon extensively in the coming months.
You are right that a game shouldn't be modded to make it complete - it is my belief that stardock should have postponed the release - but i am not all that disappointed because what i got for my money is playable(and fun, i wouldt have spent several evenings playing something i don't consider fun), and will only get better with time.
I voted that I like it, recommend it, simply because it seems I needed to vote to see the results. Having now played it I really wish I had voted disappointed instead (or even hate it, only reason not to is optimism for the future). The game isn't finished, and I don't mean the stability bugs - they will presumably be fixed fairly quickly, in a matter of weeks I imagine. Way more concerning is that there just isn't a strategy game in there right now.
Strategy games are about multitudes of choices between different options each of which are viable but have strengths and weaknesses in different situations. Balance is so bad that most choices only have one right answer once you know the game. The AI is practically non existant, the mechanics are broken, many areas of so called interest have no affect by late game (eg magic, champions, even resources become pointless, you either have more than you can use of a resource or none), etc. It might count as a sandbox game and can be fun for the first few hours but once you realise how things work and that there is only one optimum choice in each situation you realise it isn't a strategy game.
Compare Elemental with something like Civilization 4. That is the standard for strategy games now - tautly balanced choices and tradeoffs between different paths, an economy and gameplay that scale from early game to late game, competent AI. Graph Elemental vs Civ on these points and Elemental is the line that you can barely see at the bottom of the graph
Unfortunately I'm pretty sure fixing this is a multi-month problem because what needs to be done is to actually MAKE a game out of all this. It isn't a matter of fixing some problems, the core mechanics need complete rethinking so that tradeoffs such as large cities vs many small towns, champions vs normal military, magic vs tech, rushing vs digging in and teching up, etc are all balanced. I'm not even sure that there is anyone at Stardock capable of doing this sort of complex multi-mechanic balancing but I live in hope...
Rather disappointed.
There is potential in it, but as for now, the game simply is lacking. The problem being, it would require to be rebuilt from the basis to become really shining, and I'm not sure that even Stardock is willing to basically redo the whole game.
The UI is very bad, lacking clarity and intuitiveness - there is still basic gameplay features that I do not know how to use, and I'm far from being a newcoming to the gaming scene. It's clunky, not easily readable and not very immersive.
Mechanics lacks what I would call "elegant simplicity" : they are confusing and uselessly complex. As such, they end up more detracting from the game than adding to it. The old Master (of Magic) had a very solid, simple and usable system.
The magic system is particularly guilty of being very bland, which is especially hard to swallow in a game with such a theme around magic. I'm espeically stunned about the extremely simplistic magic domains : they are very cheap and binary. You wonder why they are even a choice, in fact.
To sum up : the game is, sadly, simply not as good as its inspiration. Despite being 16 years younger, in the end it looks like an inferior version of MoM, with lots of part removed, and the part added being not really interesting/well thought-out.
ATM it's a piece of coal and I voted disappointed because I was expecting a rough cut diamond.
I just voted for "I love it." For me, the whole package is inspiring enough to keep coming back, despite its flaws. It's one of the first new strategy games I've really gotten excited about. As for the state of the game at release, well, I can't say I was thrilled, but even then I liked it enough to spend days fixed to my PC playing away. And even if follow-up support doesn't excuse a buggy release, it does lessen the pain somewhat, and so far support has been great. Most of all, I think Elemental is tons of fun now and has huge potential. Some specific notes:
- love the customization, especially the unit, map, and faction editors. Hope to see more in the future. Kinda wish that there were true random maps, though...
- love the feel of Civ + fantasy strategy. City development is engaging and the tech tree is just great - most techs give you something fun to play with right away.
- the game seems to have a decent amount of flair. I don't recall playing MoM, so I can't say how original it is. I'm happy with the story and the world it's told in.
- combat is fun, but could be better. Other, better posts have already addressed this, but I would second the posters on these issues:
- one-hit kills are all the rage, and it's too easy to develop your entire military strategy around them
- AI doesn't seem to use offensive magic enough
- the defense stat is wonky
- tactical AI is too predictable, and lets itself be suckered into moving within range of YOUR attack, then having to wait a turn while
you one-hit-kill it
- ah, maces and warhammers. Is there any motivation to use anything else? Even economically, they seem to be the only kind
of weapon that makes sense, and the speed penalties don't seem to curve their death dealing very much
- great graphical style. Anime-esque, but not TOO anime-esque
- there are still CTD's and other stability issues, and the maps get sluggish as they fill up late game
- the AI, at least on lower diff. levels, tends to send a lot of lone units on suicide missions. I have noticed that it sends decent-sized armies
from time to time, though, and I never felt like it was unplayably broken
- on the whole, the game is just a lot of fun
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account