Hello my fellow Modders and friends,
As I'm sure you'd all like to know, work on the Dragonlance Mod is progressing slowly but surely. I've been plugging away on the world map and some custom tiles (though the tile editor keeps crashing on me). Realistically I'm still at least a month or two away from a 1.0 release, maybe longer if I can't find the models I need. As I've mentioned before, 3D Modeling is Not one of my strong suits. Skins, Textures, Colors, I can handle all those and even apply those to current models in game. Making decent looking New Models is somewhat beyond me though. As such I thought I would come to my fellow Modders for help. I also figure if others have Model Requests we could keep all the requests in one thread like a "Order Form" where we can request Models and when those Models are made the requests can be filled and posted in this thread.
Here are the Models I currently need. Some of these may not be needed after release but there's no way to know for sure until we have the full release and see what goodies they've been holding back from us for the full game.
Draconians: In Dragonlance there is a race called "Draconians". They are an intelligent race though they are not natural. They were made by magic and twisting the eggs of Dragons into a Dragon/Man hybrid. They have the head, wings, and tails of a Dragon with the body shape of a man. Their skin is scaly.
Minotaurs: In Dragonlance Minotaurs are a intelligent race which mainly inhabit the island nations of Mithas and Kothas. Minotaurs have a Human Body with the Head of a Bull.
Elves: In all honesty this one shouldn't be that hard. All that really needs to be done is to have pointy ears places on a standard human model.
Dwarves: Short, stocky, humans.
Kender/Halflings: Short, skinny, child-like, humans. I wonder if there will be models of children in the full game? We have all kinds of civilians walking around the cities so it would make sense that kids would be running around as well. If so I can use their model for Kender.
If anyone else has any Model Requests by all means please place them in this thread. Since I consider Kyogre to be in charge of keeping all the modding info in order maybe he will be so kind as to keep track of these as well.
Thanks Civfreak. I made the wings separate from the rest and added later.. I had some problems with face normals facing wrong direction when doing the skin flaps between wingbones however.. that's part of the frustation that kinda killed my motivation.
I'm using Blender too, same version I think. The poly count is shown somewhere on the upper right corner.
I was going for similar crests like you have on your model's head, too.. but Das123 is right, they'd be better as sub-parts, but how to do that, I've no idea. Could you show a smoothed pic of your draconian btw?
Ravenx, I think the scaly skin would have to be done fully with skins, except maybe the biggest scales and crests. Same goes for other parts too.. I don't think making eyes on the model itself is practical. On the topic of skins.. should the models be unwrapped etc? Hopefully I'll try to continue modeling/practising it, but.. Starcraft 2 is taking my time
And ye, I know there are different kinds of draconians, used to read Dragonlance a lot. Wasn't one type of draconian wingless, too? The spellcasting ones I mean. Btw.. are there any new Dragonlance books that are actually worth reading?
I can see your view on the scales. They could be all done with the skins, but I was thinking more along the lines of "textures". You wouldn't build each and every scale in 3D as that would make for an insanely high poly count. A texture is what you apply to the model (kinda like a skin) that gives it a chosen surface. Definitely don't worry about making eyes. Those can be done totally in the skin. I'm not sure what you mean on "unwrapping" the models. I know the skin files are flat and that might be what you mean by "unwrap" as the skins wrap around the model. There are plenty of examples of this in PNG form in the base game files. When it comes to models being unwrapped I have no idea. It might be easier for me to make skins that way.
The spell casting Draconians were called "Bozak Draconians" iirc. I honestly can't remember if they were the wingless ones or not. I know none of the Draconians that have wings could actually fly with them. They could use them to glide and to float down from high places (like Kitiara's flying citadel) but they couldn't actually fly with them. I want to say that in the second generation books the Dragon Khellendros, more commonly known as Kitiara's blue Dragon Skie, made another race of blue Draconians with magic and I believe they could fly, but they weren't your standard Draconians either.
Unwrapping is the process of assigning the individual polygons in the model space on the texture map.
Ahh, good to know, thank you. See, told you all I don't know jack about modelling..lol.
I'd be interested in finding someone who was interested in modeling the Vord and Canim units I'd need for a Codex Alera mod. Short of that, I guess I'd be happy to find see a Werewolf or Wolf-man model I could use as an asset for the Canim. Since the Vord tend to take the shapes of their enemies I would probably have an easier time reskinning models and making subtle changes than creating the Canim outright.
Heres the smooth version of my model, for some reason I prefer working on it on the non-smooth version.
I also have no idea how to make the sub-parts for the scales or something else, but if I knew I'd definetly do it that way so when you design units you could have more variety. I worked on it a bit more today and added some crests on the head and back, I'll add them all the way down to the tail cuz I think it looks cool lol.
Oh forgot to mention that I can't move the tail from that position atm since I'm working in mirror mode and if I move it it gets all distorted.
If you like working in smooth texture that's great for working, not for a finished model though. When we're talking about "texture" that's what I'm talking about. You don't need to make sub parts of the scales. Just change the "smooth texture" to something a little more rough and it would be perfect
See what I just said above about texture. No need for sub parts . I like the spikey look on the back and taking it down the tail sounds like a cool idea . A little artistic license is a good thing.
It's really coming along very nicely brother, great work man. Do you know how to make a blank so I can start on a skin for it? All I'd need is for you to label what part of the skin goes where, as in orientation like it was a blank piece of paper you were handing me. I'm sorry I can't explain that better. Here let me see if I can show you what I mean. Here is a picture of a standard Dragon Texture from Elemental:
Notice the layout of the pieces (also note the scales are part of the skin and not physically on the model, hmm) . Anyway, if you can give me a blank like that or give me an idea of the layout of the parts, I.E. Head goes here, Wings go here, etc etc, with little labels, I would be able to start on a skin now . No worries though if you can't grasp how to do that at this stage. Like I said I have no idea how the modeling program you're using works and I'm sure we don't have the necessary plugins/converters from Stardock yet anyway, so...
You're doing a Great Job man, keep it up.
You deserve more Karma.
Raven X, that's just what requires unwrapping. The model needs an UV-map that tells what parts of the flat texture represent parts in the actual model. There are different ways to unwrap a model, but usually there needs to be some pointers for the program what parts should be one piece on the texture etc. Blender can do much of that automatically though. What file format you'd use for the 3d-models, btw?
Btw, Civfreak, I find it easier to use mirror modifier instead of whole model and mirror mode. Just cut the model through the middle, set cursor to the edge and apply mirror modifier. It has some drawbacks (like having to be careful not to move the edge vertices on the mirror axis), but I like seeing what it's looks like with smooth textures when modeling (I mean, it's going to be smoothed ingame anyway). Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, btw, just in case you hadn't noticed
Here is my crappy version of a minotaur head done in Blender. I guess we won't know how big a poly count these things can have till after release? I need to add a body now. I think my minotaur looks like a cow. Hey, y'all need a cowataur?
Ahh, thanks for the explanation. As for a program I'm using, none at the moment. I have an older version of 3DsMax burried around here somewhere. I've been looking for my old install disk for a couple of days now especially since it has my registration number on it. Moving around to go through boxes has been a pain in the ass though. So, when I find the disk I'll use that. If I can't find the disk...I don't know I'll have to resort to using something else. I use PhotoshopCS4 for most of my skinning though and I believe it has plugins for viewing some model formats (might be wrong on that last part).
That's looking pretty Awesome as well Admiral , Great work. Minotaur's have cow heads anyway so it's all good
I haven't really done any complex UV wrapping yet, the only time I did one was following a tutorial to add a Pepsi label to a can. Every other time I've attempted to unwrap something I run into some kind of problem, but I guess this will serve as motivation to actually learn how to do it effectively. Good thing Blender has many many tutorials on just about anything the program has, so learning it shouldnt be so hard.
Admiral your minotaur head is coming along nicely, it looks so clean and well thought out! Cowtaur yez! Hehe I think it looks fine and once you add the neck it'll start taking shape and if your not happy you can tweak it here and there as need it
Did some more work on the "Draconian" today, and I gotta say I've learned quite a bit of stuff since I started doing it. The changes I made today was adding the hands, although I don't know why the goddamn thumb is giving me so much problems, also changed the legs a bit and the feet. Oh I also opened up the mouth but that needs some work too.
I need some input though since I'm kind of undecided on the proportions, should I "buff" it up more? Is it too skinny? Too fat? Anything you don't like (dont be shy!)? I added the bones that are extruding out of its Knees and elbows but I don't know if it looks any good and it gave me trouble to do it, its kind of hard to see in that picture.
Going to link pics this time since there are 5 of em
Front View, Side View, Back View, Hands, Feet
I fooled around a bit with the UV wrapping and I think I get it, managed to get a few body parts to appear like I wanted them but soooo many seams can be easy to lose track of x.x. Also if you want to send a personal message with an Email I could send you updates to, don't want to spam the thread anymore.
By all means my friend, Spam The Thread . It's more than ok to spam the thread when you're showing work you're doing. I don't think anyone minds that at all, I know I don't. Those pics look killer, man. It's come a long way since you started. Have you found a way to get me a blank texture/skin to work on? No worries if you haven't. I think the proportions are pretty spot on really. It looks cool as hell. Well done my friend, well done indeed. With your permission I'll definitely use it in the DL Mod. Looks like I'll have to make some room on the "Credits Page" for your name .
Question, are you going to fill in the blank areas of the wings?
Thank you kind sir :>! The blank texture/skin you are asking about is the UV Map Unwrapping that Kemoosi mentioned, I attempted it yesterday just to see if I understood the concept of doing it and I sorta got it to work. Once I work on the wings I think I could make that for you so you could do some skins for it.
As for the wings I'm not exactly sure how to do them either, should I do them with a thickness or just a thin layer for the skins/textures? The base of the wings look like french fries to me too so i gotta fix that lol.
I'd say do them in thin layers, like a skin membrane on a bat. They could even be paper thin. They don't need to be thick. In fact making them too thick might make the wings look funny. If that's too hard to do though I might be able to skin them in. The french fry part your referring to doesn't look bad at all I don't think. It has that look of there being a bone structure holding the wing membranes in place. You might want to think about making the wings a tad bigger or longer though. Either way it's looking pretty damn sweet!!! Keep it up my friend.
Hey, thanks for the kind words Civ and Raven.
Civ, you mentioned the two words I hate most... "wings" and "thumbs". They are a pain in the buttocks, and buttocks are hard too. Here is a dragon I did...
the wings on that son of a bitch took FOREVER! The only problem I had with doing them is that you have to have some thickness to them. At least that is the problem I had. Make that thickness too thin and the mesh bleeds through. Too fat and they look goofy. Also, I had to have thickness so that two sides were possible to texture and color. Then again I am new to modeling, so there may be some better way to do them. Oh, and as for thumbs, ha, ha, ha... man those and ears are things you wouldn't think would be hard to do. I mean a face and getting a body to look right seem like they would be hard and then you do a thumb and ya realize it ain't easy as it looks.
Damn Admiral, you did that Dragon? That looks f'kin Awesome . With your permission I could use that in the DL Mod as well. Granted Elemental already has some nice looking Dragons, but more variations never hurt
Damn thats one awesome Dragon Admiral, the time spent working on those wings was well worth it, they look great!
Good news Raven, I think I really understand UV mapping now, heres a preview of an example of the model's map:
As you can see its a mess atm, but I'm excited cause I managed to isolate the back and front sides like I wanted to! Don't use this since I used an old save to mess around with UV mapping without affecting the latest version. Couple more days and I should have it nailed down though, so hooray!
Sure thing. That actually is an Elemental dragon. It looks better rendered out though Elemental army
I am new to blender so do I just give you a saved file? Also, do these things need to be animated/boned, because I barely know how to do any of that stuff.
if this game turns out good or bad i know 100% the community will make this game 3xs better. Good job guys look forward to seeing yoour mods
What programs are most people using to be making their models.
I have an itch to be working on scenery models.
Das123, I really hope you don't mind (by the way, great stuff you did there) but I used the images of your minotaur as a reference.
Here is my modeled minotaur cowotaur. Man, I suck. the head needs some major work. I like my axe though. Sorry that he is naked
front:
Admiral your Minotaur won't be a Cowtaur (lol) for long, I think you're almost there, the only thing that is missing is proportions. I believe with just some scaling here and there that it'll evolve to a minotaur, like scaling the neck some so its thicker. That alone should go a long way for the next stage in the evolution .
On another note, I just found out what you meant about the wings, they are a bitch -.-. Spent quite a while trying to find a way to add that small thickness, oh and thanks for the tip on adding the thickness, I was gona do a small film and that wouldn't have worked .
I messed around a bit with modifiers and adding a Subsurf dramatically increases the quality of the model, I was amazed.
Subsurf Modifier added:
I think some of the quality is lost in the JPEG. but the difference is incredible. This of course comes at a price, without the subsurf my model has around 2800 faces, but if I apply the subsurf it goes up to 11,500 faces . So I'll leave it off for now and to be honest I don't even know if that would carry over to a game, hell we don't even know if Blender will work with Elemental -.-.
Anyways, what do you think about the wings Raven? Should they be longer? Wider? You mentioned someplace they used them to glide instead of flying so I'm not sure how big they should be Also idk what to do about the eyes, in Elemental they animate the eyes with still pictures I think. In the unit folders there are still pics called "X_Blink" or something, which is basically 3 separate pics of an eye blinking. I have no idea how to apply that to a model .
Edit: @Lupine I'm currently using Blender 2.49, it's a free 3D modeling software. With it you can model, animate, assign materials and textures and a bunch of other stuff I don't even know about yet. Best part is there are many tutorials online that are free and they are usually well done and you will learn fast since its such an easy to use program.
LoL I was about to copy it and use that to start from lol. Good thing I finished reading before I got all jumpy. Way to go man, great job indeed!!
Honestly, I have no idea how I'm going to incorporate new models into the game yet. That will be one of the things I figure out as I piece things together. I'm working on parts of the DL Mod in pieces at a time. Characters, Building Tiles, Maps, all one piece, one day, at a time. The Human looking characters are the easiest part. Everything else after that starts getting complicated. I started working on the world map but scrapped it until launch for a more stable editor (memory errors will be fixed).
The Minotaur model is coming along very nicely my friend. Excellent work . A few minor crits if I may. I like the head, it looks great. I'd say shorten the neck a little bit though and if you can, from the waste down, make him look more , hmm, "Beefy" I guess you'd say, no pun intended lol. Possibly add in some bulk to use as fur. You don't need to actually texture the fur from the waste down as I know that would be a serious pain in the ass even for a professional modeler. I can make the bulk look like fur with a skin. That's seriously damn good work though!! Keep it up brother That Axe does look pretty bad ass btw.
I wouldn't worry about the eye blinking part my friend. I think that's for when characters are seen close up, maybe for in diplomacy and stuff which I don't think we'll need the Draconians for. I'm assuming the game will except the model without the need for an eye blinking animation, which I don't see why it wouldn't. As long as it does I'd say no worries on the eyes blinking.
I like the thickness on the wings, you got that Perfect!! The shape of the membrane is a tad off though. Notice the shape of the wings on Admiral's dragon and the shape of the wings in the skin pic I posted from the Elemental dragon. They are more bat-like. To achieve this on the Draconian model I think the top part of the wings that the membrane attaches to might need to be longer and angled down a bit more. Notice the roundish flap part of the membrane. Instead of being rounded down it should be rounded up, meaning the parts of the wing it's attaching to (I'm just gonna call them Struts for now) need to be longer to get the wing shape right. Just keep the image of a bat's wing in your head you'll see what I mean.
Honestly I feel bad even criting you guys work. It's great stuff and I know it's beyond my skills of making models. Far be it from me to say "hey that doesn't look right" as it's all a matter of taste and opinion anyway. Both you guy's models look freaking Awesome. I really can't wait to skin them . I can already see skinning just the two will be an all day project for me. I really enjoy skinning as well. I don't get that much of a chance to do as many things with my art these days as I'd like so I'm really looking forward to it.
Seriously, great f'king job guys!! You've impressed the shit outa me. You're both getting named as partial creators of the DL Mod when we're done. You're both officially part of the Dragonlance Mod Team, congrats .
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