I just did a quest for a dragon egg and got a dragon. From there on I had 150+ hp i guess because I was in it's company and walked into every city and never lost 1/3 of that taking on the biggest monsters in the level. I had 10000 gold and alot researched when I took over the last town, (with no chance of defense). The game cannot work this way when we buy it, we may be treated to a quest like that but something has to happen to the dragon so you don't just walk thru the game, and I thought titans and elementals where the big guys in this game maybe the dragon can only help against them. ? something to see the end by Conquest??? -Jeremy Sr.
Yup same thing when ever i get him... however game is not fully balanced yet.. easier way to win make archer squads and do same thing no dragon needed.. point is its known that the dragon and bows (although bows seems more like a bug) is over powered for when we get it and may be all together..
Well something should develope from having the dragon so that you don't just trample the game and ruin the story(like the elementals and titan) that was in the game foremost. -Jeremy Sr.
I got that dragon as well, not worried that I ran the map with it as well, this is the beta...
However, while I appreciated to size of the dragon it made it fairly had to click on anything nearby or even see items nearby without going to the zoomed out view.
Perhaps a smaller dragon for release?
The dragon has a weak point: He crawls at 1 move per turn. Sovereign is usually able to wipe out the map alone before that. But the dragon is useful for the master quest where big baddies actually are.
Dragons (and other über monsters) should only be controllable for a limited time, until they turn on you / fly away / cease to function (golems/constructs). Such limited time monsters also shouldn't be able to heal, so that it would be worth it to actually battle them rather than just run away with all units.
if your sovereign has organized, then the weak point is eliminated.
Why, why not just balance them?
Well, that's an option but if you don't limit their use somehow, they need to be made much, much weaker. I'd like it better to have them stronger but with caveats like the one I mentioned. My opinion only of course.
the limited control period idea is a good one. perhaps if you agree to release them after a reasonable period you are guaranteed an amicable departure, but if you keep pushing your luck the odds of it turning against you are increased? i think that would be a pretty cool mechanic.
+1 to above post.
My suggestion? Dragons should get diseased and cursed, just like our friends from Dominions...
I don't have an opion but glad people did offer some design ideas. thanks guys. -Jeremy Sr.
The easiest explanation is that you won't be finding or recruiting Dragons in "every" game of Elemental you play. As far as I know, Dragons are planned to be "Rare and Powerful" beings in Elemental. This means you may play 20 or 30 games on the largest map possible and only see 1 Dragon the entire time. If they Are that "rare" then getting one and being able to steam roll the map with it isn't really that big of a deal. Having used one in the beta as well I can say they are over-powered, but, they're supposed to be. Plus of course there's also all the associated "Beta" problems like balancing that need to be taken into account.
Hope that helps.
+1; I approve of this idea.
I disagree. It will feel like you have wasted your time and effort building a kingdom if you get "lucky" and stomp the map with a dragon. Unbalanced is not fun (well... it might be the first time) but I'm sure they fixed it for release anyway.
I also had a dragon in 3b and did the master quest, but found the master quest boring in 3b as it is an instant win when you get back to the starting point with the five parts, and the dragon allowed a win on each of the battles.
harpo
+1 looove this idea
hehe I guess the archery thing is one way in which the game really is like MoM. Archers and spellcasters were so broken in it in the original version that there was rarely any reason to ever build a non ranged unit. They did eventually fix it, but it took awhile.
Be interesting to see what becomes of the final dragon, but yeah it obviously can't stay the way it is.
Odd - I've completed this quest twice now and never did get to see the dragon or have it in my group... not that it mattered too much since I tend to run with 5-10 NPCs and the 4 or 5 summoned creatures available and trounce the map anyway...
There's probably gonna be some stuff in the game you don't like then. A while back Frogboy was talking about "Super Rare Quests" and "Super Rare Items" that Won't show up every game, or even every few games. These are added to bring unexpected spice to the game. This keeps it fresh. Maybe you'll be dominating a map with no challengers and then "Wham" one of your enemies completes a Rare Quest and gets an uber item and starts stomping everyone on the map. Now it's up to you to bring the remaining Kingdoms and Empires together to stop the faction with the super weapon. That's why these things are "Super Rare" though, so stuff like that doesn't happen every game. Honestly I think it adds a lot to the game having things like this in it.
Well they said there would be rare stuff, they didn't say they would be super powerful and let you "start stomping everything on the map". There are plenty of rare and interesting events in Galactic Civilizations, but while they might cause you to change your gameplay, they generally don't cause you to win or lose because of one thing.
This is true. The main example I like to give in Elemental's case is when Frogboy talked about the "Diamond Golem Quest" that would only appear once every 400 games. I don't know if that's something that's in game for certain or if he was just using it as an example, but I use his example as my example. IIRC what he said about it was that it would be a multi-part quest and there's not even a guarantee the player would be able to finish the quest and get the Golem without interference from one of the other factions in game. There are many many factors to overcome in getting the quest and getting all the items you need to make the Golem, but once you (or the AI) gets the Golem...watch the hell out...LoL. It would be the real life equivalent of one nation on Earth having an Atomic Bomb while everyone else is using guns and small arms fire.
It definitely Would unbalance the game, but, that's the point and half the fun of it. Keeping it Very Rare is what makes it fun because you Won't have something that drastically unbalances the game there very often. Just the "chance" of something like that happening brings a lot to the table for a single player game. Imagine if you're loosing the game, badly, and then you stumble on the quest to get the Diamond Golem. Completing that quest and getting the Golem could turn a loosing game into a winning game And it would be a challenge to finish the quest and get the Golem before you're wiped out of existence. As long as it's limited and doesn't happen very often I don't see any problems with it at all. No one can expect to win all the time and no one should expect to loose all the time.
One of the things with long played out strategy games though is there comes a point in every game that's played where you either know you're going to win, or you're going to loose. Often this knowledge comes at Mid to Late game. Imagine you've hit that point, you know you're going to win, you have 5 massive "stacks of doom" heading to finish off the capitols of your enemies, and then one of those enemies gets the Diamond Golem. Now you're forced to turn all 5 of those stacks of doom against the Diamond Golem to stop it from crushing your cities. You succeed but take heavy losses. Now the other factions on the map have a fighting chance again and you Don't know for certain that you're going to win anymore. I don't know about you, but to me that sounds like a Bad Ass Game . Just the chance of things like that happening that can turn the tables on a winning or loosing game means that it's worth it to play out each game from it's start to the bitter end. This is something all deep and engrossing strategy games should strive for and I think for once Elemental is going to break the trend in strategy gaming where you often know whether you'll win or loose.
I am with RavenX on this.. In fact if we are lucky over time ... ala mods and updates even more variety of these kinds of neat and unique items/quests can work there way into the game ... I love the idea that there is always a chance for a different way to win/loose heh heh
Then may be it should be immune to that. 1 move per turn, no mater your sovereign traits.
wow this game just gets better and better the more i hear about it, i must admit when playing civ 4, the game became boring and i stopped playing once i knew i had won mid to late game.
@Raven X,Thanks for posting that example it made what could of been perceived as a negative trait in the game, what it was meant to be an awsome idea to keep the game alive mid to late game.
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