This thing has great potential, but it needs SO MUCH MORE WORK, before it becomes something interesting to play. I think only now the game shapes itself into something that actually could be called beta, but still lots of things are missing or not working, so I am not sure if it can be called beta, it is still more like late alpha.
Anyway, I see huge potential, but lots of balancing, tweaking, and fluff is required in this game, but it can not be done properly yet, because lots things are not implemented properly. The adventure part will require lots of investment, for quest to be interesting, numerous and of just right difficulty. I see how much work is needed in the game. And without challenging AI, unit balancing is not exactly possible. As far as I see the main GAMEPLAY part, is yet to be tested and adjusted, so, HUGE amount of work is ahead, because adjustment of gameplay sometimes require big changes in the code.
I do like the fact that with beta 3 the game development seems to be accelerated, but the reason I am writing this post is to ask the developers to put even more effort into it, and at the same time, not to release too early. This game can be a jewel of the gaming, but it does require lots and lots of work until it reaches that point. I can easily see how such complex and multifaceted game become ruined by not balancing and polishing it. I hope that Stardock did not bite more than it can chew, because the game is indeed very ambitious, complex and very very promising.
yeah i agree, but i also think a lot of content will come with mods and dlc over time.
i really hope the internal build is much more advanced, since there is a lot to work before the release.
I do have to agree with your points, however I am not quite as worried as you appear to be. I will agree that more time and more polish will be great, but I disagree with your point that it is only now that the game is starting to shape into a beta.Honestly the word beta has been warped in the industry to indicate not a testing phase, but a preview to the game, where 'beta testers' dont really test anything, they just play the game. Stardock clearly still holds to the true belief that a beta is precisely a testing phase, where players are meant to encounter bugs, graphical glitches, and crashes, to help the team, *help*, the team finish and clean up the gameplay for the release.
Its going to be rocky, its going to be messy, and its going to look bad. Thats what a beta is. Its where all the ideas are thrown together, and then slowly worked through until you hit that polish that you 'should' expect from a release. These days, I find myself over and over again being disgusted by released projects that were forced out the gate without proper testing. I'm very glad to see stardock and the elemental team taking the time to do a real beta, in all its gory glory.
Cheers, and my thoughts.
Doesn't impulse ensure that Stardock can take all the time they need to polish a game before releasing? Similar (though maybe not to the same degree) to the way that valve can spend as much time as they want working on games because they make tons of money off of Steam. I was under the impression that this was a reason that Stardock is able to self publish and make a game that big publishers would be afraid to spend money on because it's not intended for a wide enough audience.
I had this conversation a couple days ago with a co-worker who is a gamer, primarily FPS but really likes Civ and SimCity as well. I let him know about GalCiv, Dominions and this beta. It pretty much came down to the fact that I'll buy ever Blizzard game made, (almost) every bioware game made, and every stardock game made. Quality companies that put out good product. In specific with Stardock I love the fact that the devs interact on the forums, they continue to support their games and they're honest (AFAIK). With that said, I like to believe they'll stick with the quality vs release date and put out a good product at the right time.
The game that will be released is not going to be the final version. Frogboy even said that he would continue to work on this game for at least another year, which means that 5 or 6 months from now the game might be completely different from what it is now, due to balancing and adding new content and such. I really don't understand what people are worried about.
a shallow game.
as of now the beta is not particularly deep and it lacks unique playstyles. i am not worried about bugs or missing graphics or even lack of content (i enjoy playing on cloth map more) but different and unique game mechanics.
More opinions related to this kind of thread here:
https://forums.elementalgame.com/387288/#2678448
I do not think that they are "much much further", because there would be no reason for beta test with us in that respect. And while we do test and report bugs, we are just now starting seeing the gameplay. Gameplay takes long time to polish, and in my opinion it is the most complex part of the game to get right. After all, any game has more or less OK graphics and interface, but very few have the gameplay right.
I am rooting for Stardock, they are my favorite game company, and until now they were very good with development of other games, but this game is more complex than say the first GalCiv in terms of gameplay, that I wish that they have more resources and time to get and to implement input from us with respect to gameplay, and polish the game. I am just a bit scared that they will not be able to pull off this time. I do hope that my worries will not be realized.
GO STARDOCK!
To MxM111 and anyone else worried,
Have faith that the guys at Stardock know exactly what they're doing, and yes, their internal build would without a doubt be much much further than what we're getting. Whilst the beta at this stage is still rough and certainly lacks polish, I have never really played a polished beta, and the few that have been close haven't really been true betas of the nature that Stardock is pumping out here. I think you'll be amazed at just how much Stardock chooses not to give us simply because even at this stage, while they still want us to be excited about what's coming out, they want to make sure every little bug and balance issue and niggle is dealt with. I'd wager we're seeing a fraction of what the game has to offer. It's also worth noting that in a recent post Frogboy mentioned that we're currently using 2 tech trees, whilst v1.0 will have 3, and v1.01 will have 10, which is quite frankly ridiculous and amazing.
Worry is totally unnecessary,
Paradoxical
Well, there is no strict definition of what beta is, but usually it is this (from wiki):
"Beta" is the software development phase following alpha, named after the Greek letter beta. It generally begins when the software is feature complete. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing."
This is what beta was and is in majority of the software companies. And even now I can not call what I see now in Elemental as "feature complete" - it is not, but it is getting close there. I would say that what we have tested so far is alpha. It is OK, and I am glad that we were able to help Stardock with alpha.
i am not talking necessarily about the battle system nor do i think that the current betas have much in common with the finished product, but i know demigod and galciv2 and for that matter i found them to be shallow games. don't get me wrong i know that galciv2 is old and had a much smaller budget (and i like it, but i could have been so much more) and demigod was intended to be short and easy to learn, i just don't have that much trust like others have that is all.
i think stardock makes good solid games, but i wish they would sometimes do something more daring when it comes to game mechanics so game becomes really brilliant. if you look at the fall from heaven 2 mod (and modmods, i work on one) you will see that there are really cool (but not always perfect) gameplay differences based on the civilization. a game as the scions plays entirely different then with the bannor for example and i wish this would be true for elemental as well, but i doubt it.
I have no doubt that they will just put off the release until 'its ready.' At least, thats what i hope they do instead of releasing too soon. And Mx, we are just beta testing certain things, in small dosages. While we are seeing the basics of gameplay, i suspect that the majority of the intricacies such as the AI arnt implemented or implemented in a dumbed down version for ease of finding other bugs. If they know theyve got one part done and solid, they'd just remove that solid part, and leave the parts that still need testing.
Somewhere, Brad is banging his head on his desk right now...
I just uploaded 9 bug crashes via drop-box
I just uploaded 9 crashes via drop-box, This version (.806) seems far more unstable than the previous version. I am getting random CTD for almost every action i perform in-game. I do agree that the game will be radiacally different in the following months, but for me, stability is paramont.
I am also concerned that the August gold date is quickly approching.
Cool your jets - Beta is like 20% at most of the actual game. There is plenty of posts done by Frogboy to assure you that the game will be historically diffrent from now Beta till release Gold. Elemental is in good hands, no the best.
Yeah, thanks for the timely advice. Well in 25 days the game will go gold, do you really think that most if not all the bugs will be worked out? I've following this game almost since it's inception and i am just a bit worried. cheers!
I agree, it currently lacks immersion and any real depth. If anything its a click fest, clone cities, bland NPC and Quests. Overall it needs at least another 3-6 months work before its even close to complete, unless of course SD are going to do a ETW on us and release a BETA game and Patch it to a usable game over the next 6 months.
It has potential but its not quite there yet!
I think that everyone claiming that the game wont be ready would be well suited to take a wait and see approach. I for one am going to wait for release, and gauge the reception of the game. If anyone I know gets it I will sample it on their comps. Based off of Stardock's past track record with galciv2 and whatever their part of Sins was, I am fairly confident that this will be a playable and entertaining game at release. That's what I am going on. I think there's a good chance that those who have been in beta and claimed it's not ready for scheduled release don't really know what they're talking about or have much experience with game Betas. Then again, I could be wrong, as I personally have only participated in a few Betas, and not this one.
While I share the concerns of posters believing time is short to get all the game mechanics/balancing/"funness" down, and am willing to admit it is speculative, I do NOT believe SD will release a program in "Beta" form like that Piece of CR** Empire Total War. I think their internal business model will preclude them from releasing something "buggy" though others might think it "feature incomplete."
I just want to reassure everyone that we are committed to releasing a finished and polished game. It would be a disservice to our many fans to do anything other than that. It would also be fundamentally violating one of our own rules, Right #2 from the Gamer's Bill of Rights: "Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state."
Here's a link to the rest of the rights for those of you that have never seen them: http://kotaku.com/5043432/the-pc-gamers-bill-of-rights
Beta 3A even has new Pop ups noting that SD is aware of Critters with huge HP's and the like. Balancing those types of #'s is morning coffee time type work. Not that everyone will agree what "balance" is anyways.
Without a true Enemy (AI) to piss you off, become your Ally, suck your toes, how in the Hell can you have Immersion and Depth? Let's assume the game will ship with an AI.
This week will be my Critique week, and as LeBlaque did, I hope to make a post noting for the Dev's on some of what I see needs attention before they totally lock it down.
Most will be cosmetic surely, and most probably already on some list somewhere, but if not... perhaps it will get fixed and I will know why....
So play it, in Windowed Mode, for now and read and look at everything and make notes. That is our job, not to speculate now on how it might/should have done different. (Too late now, even for us old time beta'rs)
Let's continue to assist the Dev in their time of need and not criticize just because the latter is simply easier to do.
It's wouldn't be the Elemental forums without a daily/weekly "This game is not ready!!" thread. They've been saying all along to not look at betas as representative of the final game.
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