Cowbuttzex and and Xynth railed against a friend of mine last night and in my experience she is just as good a teammate as either of them. She pointed out that they both commented on her poor purchase of the Journeyman Treads.
She also pointed out that they had hitpoints in the 8 and 9k's without sigils. I am willing to believe that I have never gotten a DG to those unsigiled hp levels in a pvp game. So...to the question, what do you buy after giants? And please explain why.
Cit updates, simple the stronger giants are the less work on my end to bring down towers >.>
But by the time we reach giants, you should really have all you need; aside from a few artifacts which in a even game shouldn't even be accessable.
Yeah, what synnworld said. Regarding hps, I've been in a couple of games where either a Rook or UB had at least 8K health (no sigils). I suppose that this involves taking BotF, purchasing the best health items (including an artifact or two), and reaching level 20. It is possible to do, but rare since most games don't go to level 20 or allow for that kind of extravagant spending.
What demigod was your friend playing? I don't think that I have ever purchased Journeyman Treads. There are many better ways to spend 6750 in gold.
Ummm i think you all missed a major point.
A GIRL WAS PLAYING DEMIGOD !!!!! AWESOME !! lol
Journeymans are a nice addition to some speed builds. I've seen them best used on ice TB and Reg. (and ninja rook lol. They would probably be good on any ranged auto-attacker though ie QoT and Occ)
However the player has to justify the significant cost of j-mans over hungarlings (or already have hungarlings or BoTS etc.)
Personally i dont recommend them at all since i prefer HP stacking. Having the ability to stay in a fight longer is better for me than the ability to run away. If you get journeymans then you will most likely consistently run away hence the ice TB and Reg being the most beneficial to J-mans....
To get to the 8-9k HP level you need nimoths, narmoths, maybe girdle or some other artifact....
j
Come to my level design class, my teacher is female, and we have 2 female students. They love games to.
Who was this person? The only person I bitched about last night was an oak with the name of Allouete because I was pissed that I lost a game that we should of had well in had. I also never have over 8k unsigiled and I didn't bitch about some ones choice of Journeyman's treads because its a fine item for late game.
The circumstance was I was tanking a 2v1 by our portal and oak arrived in time to fight them off, all I needed was a shield.
Oak shields himself and runs with nearly full health as I am left with little to no HP sigil already popped still fighting 2v1.
The oak didn't bother to lock our portal or to save me so we obviously lost after that horrible play.
Other than that I had a good time last night. Got in some nice games with Pacov, Peter, Trouser, and some newer players that I haven't played with much yet.
---------------------------------------
As for what I buy after giants,
I usually upgrade them full with armor and damage lines but if I am struggling 1v1ing demigods I usually get grofflings, journeymans, orb of vieled storms, wand of speed and one of those usually gives me the edge over any other DG on the field.
It was allouette, and she mentioned that you were upset by the missed shield, but come'on everyone misses shield in a heated fight from time to time. I don't know about not locking. As for the hp's I was unclear above, it was the opponent's hp that were in that high range.
If you didn't bitch about J.treads, then that's fine, I may have misunderstood that as well. I was under the impression that she was mocked by more than one person about that purchase.
I also realize it depends on the dg, but there are certain purchases that I think are nearly universally valuable...the J.treads seem to me to be the best (after buying all of the creep upgrades). This is because at this point, staying power is negligible as any two should beat any one. With the boots you can get out of any bad situation and actually get to an opposing portal without a tp. But I am interested to hear what others are buying. Thanks for replying cow, I told her that my experience with you was that you were generally a cool guy...and I thought it was strange that you would rail at her for one missed shield.
It differs by DG. I play support Sedna and ice TB most of the time. With Sedna, if I'm in a losing fight and need to tele/lock, then I just silence and use the item (this also allows my team mates to do the same). This greatly reduces the need for raw fighting power or Journeyman. With TB, I spend a pretty significant time killing creeps, which also reduces the need for raw fighting power. Thus, I use the following.
Usually death upgrades if the creep attack 1 and creep armor 1 and 2 have been bought. Reduction of death time from 30+s to 15s is great for for returning to defend portals should someone die trying to take theirs. Solves the general problem that in late game, if you lose in a 3v3 fight at either portal with with 1 death at your portal or 2 at theirs, you've lost the game. After that, the rest of the creep upgrades if I can afford them.
What do I buy late game? If we are neck and neck with war rank then we need giants asap. Also, assuming they are getting giants at the same time as the other time, you must upgrade your creeps in damage and hp. You always take the first two cheapest upgrades in all games as they are the most substantial % increase for gold paid.
If we are ahead in war rank (say we are 10 in they are 7 or 8) then you can be a bit more relaxed. You can get giants but you can delay upgrading them and sort out your equipment. This is acceptable as they will probably take the strategy of locking flags as they are trying to get to rank 10 or it is "gg" for them basically, whereas you need to secure a portal. To secure a portal you need to be able to win a group fight i.e. you need better equipment than the other team.
But on a late-game Oak? What health or mana item are you giving up in order to reserve a slot for J-treads? Also, a late-game Oak shouldn't be doing much running from anyone. If he needs to get away fast, a shield-tp combo works nicely, not to mention surge of faith.
you can't just keep running to portals and the shield / porting away. J-treads allow you to run to that portal, force the enemy to tele in and you just run away to another flag / portal. Use shield / port for when it really matters - locking the flag and leaving.
Personally I dont like j-treads for late game oak, im not saying they're bad though.... If i'm pushing portals i'll forego the sigils and pick up a wand of speed. During the late game i am blowing through mana even though i have plenor, vlemish and unbreakables. I almost always go for hungarlings (and replace vlemish). The aura is also team helpful in 2v2+ situations.
Now if were pushing levels 15-20 (WR 10 of course) and get to buy artifacts (which is unfortunately very very rare) then the standard artifacts apply - girdle, bulwark, ash - etc. etc.
Okay, fair enough for a speed Oak that decides to give up a health or mana slot for treads and can afford the exorbitant price. However, most teams expect Oak to be one of the dps demigods and stand in a fight (thanks to stacked health, etc.). Thus, if you are Oak and running from fights by late game (especially 1 on 1), that will likely be a problem for a team. As jongalt26 said above, treads seem to make the most sense on a Reg or TB, who can be fragile and need the mobility.
I rarely see an assassin oak these days...most of them have minions at least in hybrid form and these benefit from the speed as well. I haven't done a real "speed oak" for several updates. But Rawrrr's explanation matches why I pick j-treads.
I also like them for UB. it gives him the ability to be the fastest unit on the map...and now makes him a valid portal locker.
Just as a note - I didn't put Pfizzyhead up to posting anything about Cow or Xynth. I'm really not interested in people having an opinion of them based on one game I played with them, nor do I desire others to have an opinion of me for that reason either. But since its out here now, I guess I'll say something.
Yes, I shielded myself (by accident) and I did not lock the flag - since I wasn't expecting to end up shielding myself , locking the flag was not next on my list of planned things to accomplish. And I apologized for it afterwards.
Setting that aside, at the same time we lost that flag our other portal was locked as well. Believe me when I say I know it sucked not to get shielded - why would it make me happy that I made a mistake? But even if it had gone off, we were toast - They were several levels beyond us, stopping every single joint effort we made for their portals. They outplayed us in the last 3rd of the game, plain and simple. If it helps you have fun, go ahead and feel it was all my fault, or that you were the only good player on the team, it makes no difference to me. I know my strengths and weaknesses and really don't care if you see them or not, we won't be playing another game together anyways.
As for the 8K health and sigiling - there's a miscommunication going on there, I never told pfizzy that our team had that many hp, I was referring to theirs, and that it sure seemed like everytime I looked at their team they had 8 to 9 K hp. Couldve been sheer coincidence that whenever I saw them they were sigiled, though it didn't feel like it.
Also a miscommunication on the Journeyman's treads, it was another player in that game who was being rude about those, which was puzzling to me. We were making multiple attempts to grab portals and being rebuffed at every try, so I figured I'd give the treads a shot so that I could scoot down a lane faster and hope to use the element of surprise more effectively. Also, despite having 6K+ hp if we were near a portal and I shielded another team-mate it meant I was dead - they had multiple stuns and multiple slowing capabilities and I was equal to or slower then every other player's base speed. JT's saved my ass several times by letting me outrun everyone. I could usually even stop and grab a flag too since I knew they'd just used their portals to try and gank us.
And yes, girls do play Demigod
As everyone can see, I don't only misunderstand my wife...I apparently miscommunicate with all females. They're op'd tbh.
Journeyman's aren't a bad choice of items in 2v2, and it's useable in 3v3 as well. When Thundercles plays TB he gets Journeyman's end-game. However, it's most effective against uncoordinated puggers (in fact, this is something I see premades "abusing" since know they full well the pugger team won't have porting-coordination). A good premade will be on vent and you'll never "trick" one than one into porting onto you.
All-in-all it really depends on your role and where you're fighting. Journeyman's isn't nearly as useful against pure Assassin builds since it procs less often. There is also the issue you'll be ~500 hp and ~1000 armor behind anyone who didn't get it since they'll have 2 expensive armor items instead of a cheap one and Journeyman's. This means that it's going to be very difficult to hold a flag unless you're a strong demigod or you have creepwave advantage.
Personally, I consider getting more than 2 points of Armory and Blacksmith to be a waste of gold. Maxxing out both of those lines is something like 10,000 gold for +40% damage and +20% health. That investment is instantly negated by a single demigod's AoE since dead creeps don't do damage. Furthermore, good players won't fight in an enemy creepwave.
So, you're paying 10k (as a team) to push the creepwaves slightly faster while no demigod is there to push it back. Not worth it.
This is also why I think TB is such a strong demigod to have when you expect a game to last well into the Giant stage (but not the double-artifact stage).
This is 3v3 Cata or XvX Crucible, btw. Where there are less creepwaves than demigods. Leviathan creepupgrades are a much more effective investment.
ya I rarely get j-treads, but when I do my above reason is why. Like, 1 game out of 70 I'll get j-treads
If I have extra you can bet your ass I'm getting journeymans.
Me, Teseer, IamKira, we all loves the Journeymans late game... as Dictator For Life of The Torchbearer Fan Club, I give this item our organizations seal of approval!
Pffffffffffft. Wheres this guide I was told of?
Personally I feel oak has problems running anything down late game and as i see swift anklet as useless, jboots are the solution, if your team can get cita ups then all you have to do is run and lock.
I heart TB too......
Sorry Cow! I'll make you president of the club and bump Teseer down to something crappy like treasurer... make him read the minutes of the next meeting.
Guide will be up tonight Teseer... should be easy to write since it'll be mostly like this "Deep Freeze: Check out Teseer's guide for tips on how to use this ability."
keke.
And I aint gunna be no part of your Fruity little group. ( I cant remember what movie that is from )
Been peddling TB4L for a long time.
TB4L!
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