It is difficult to explain the issues of Sins have without going into too much "technical detail" which some may not understand. The main problem is that Sins is an older generation 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. All 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games have an ability to load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games can also unload assets that are not needed. This is how they prevent themselves from reaching the 2 gig limit. Some games have been patched to where they can use up to 4 gigs of ram on 64 bit systems.
Sins also can load only what is needed at game start up, but Sins does NOT unload what it does not use. Any assets that are loaded remain loaded throughout the entire game! If you use all three factions (Six in the case of Rebellion), Then Sins will load ALL of its game assets at start up. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy in some games loaded between 1.7 to 1.9 gigs worth of assets at game start up! Graphic settings, The size of the Map, and the amount of Players, or AI opponents also determine how much ram Sins will use in any given session.In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 32 bit Windows XP was the standard OS of the time. Single core CPU's were also still the standard. Though dual core CPU's were starting to become mainstream, and 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers at the time didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is now Rebellion, and soon to be Windows 10 running in multiple core 64 bit systems. With 16+ gigs of ram. Things have changed so much over the years. However Sins still remained the 32 bit game as it was designed in 2006. That uses only a single core of your CPU. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram that Sins uses by itself. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, etc. etc. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers to do this (Ironclad said so themselves). Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. With the Entrenchment, and Diplomacy expansions Ironclad had unintentionally pushed the game over its own hard coded limitations with all of the new added content.
Over the years as of the release of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. Stardock, and Ironclad did indeed fix all of the major game crashing issues of Sins. Using the fix's from This Project as a guide. However, NONE of these fix's ever made it into Entrenchment, or Original Sins! While the Stardock, and Ironclad developers have fixed most of these issues over years. They can not do anything to change the game itself short of reprogramming Sins over from scratch. The developers can do no more, but there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall, and improve the performance of Sins "just a little bit more". I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....
The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins gaming experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Original Sins, or any of its Expansions in game play at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing "new" will be added. There are other mods that can do that. Original Sins will remain Original Sins, and the Expansions will remain as they are. What we are doing is taking what game assets that Sins already has, and we are "optimizing" them to improve the performance, stability, and to moderate the ram usage in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same gaming experience as the high end users do (Especially Laptop Users).The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To make it look as if nothing has been changed at all. We started with optimizations to the Planet's, and Skybox's, because they were the "worst offenders" as far as ram usage, and performance was concerned. Unfortunately my modeling skills left much to be desired in Softimage XSI at the time, and there were un-fixable mesh errors on the optimized planet meshes. Despite that the "proof of concept" was established. A lot of ram was saved, and there was a very noticeable increase in performance.Then we studied the Particle files, and Textures. Many of the particle textures in our opinion were way too high in resolution for the purpose that they served. A reduction in texture resolution by HALF showed no visible difference in game at all! There were some exceptions where the particle resolution reduction difference was very noticeable in game, and those textures were reverted back to their original resolutions. Remember the goal was NOT to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses a little less memory, and is much more efficient, because DDS format loads directly into video memory. The particles can also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS format. Where TGA format does not. Therefore enhancing in game video performance (increased FPS). As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of the Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe. When you change the texture format those textures do not show up in game.The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a memory leak can be caused by a file searching for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins had MANY particle, and mesh files that had that issue. We removed all of the entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. We also removed the entries that have lines like for example "C;\g\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just used "aura4.dds". This will default the search to Sins, or the Mods "Textures" folder, and speed things up a bit. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships had mesh nulls that were Miss-Labeled. For example the Akkan had nulls, and flairs that were miss-labeled. The engine trails, and flairs didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. etc. etc. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ships mesh file in the mods "Mesh" folder then it had something wrong with it that was fixed. The Soundata, and Galaxydef files had errors too. Regardless if any of these issues caused any memory leaks, or not these issues MUST be fixed! (and they were as of Diplomacy 1.3, but NOT for Original Sins, or Entrenchment).After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and the very obvious issues were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of TSOP 0.07 I could run a game of Entrenchment, or Diplomacy ALL DAY, and I NEVER used more than 1.5 gigs of ram! This was using Maximum Settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge Random Multi Star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem has been solved! Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use any external memory increasing programs! Stardock, and Ironclad took notice, and they used TSOP as a guide in the Diplomacy 1.3 patch, and for developing Rebellion.Now that the Stardock, and Ironclad have fixed the issues of the game as of Diplomacy 1.3, and Rebellion. TSOP has been focusing more on Original Sins, and Entrenchment. Since the Ironclad/Stardock fixes never made it into Original Sins, or Entrenchment. However, That is not stopping us from optimizing Diplomacy, or Rebellion "just a little bit more" You can also use Large Address Aware to give Sins an extra gig to play with, but in vanilla Original Sins, and Entrenchment the Endless Search Loop issues that were never fixed will cause the game to eventually go over that extra gig (Run vanilla Entrenchment, and watch your ram usage keep going up, and up, and up). TSOP is a solution that will stop that issue.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Downloads
The Sins Optimization Project v1.0
For Original Sins 1.195
For Entrenchment 1.055
For Diplomacy 1.37
Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that compelled us to make TSOP. Therefore there is no TSOP for Diplomacy
For Rebellion 1.82
As with Diplomacy, Stardock, and Ironclad fixed all of the issues that TSOP pointed out, and then some in the case of Rebellion. Sins: Rebellion is as optimized as any Sins game is going to get.
NOTE: TSOP 0.07 is still hosted on ModDB, and it still works in the current versions of Trinity (OS, E, and D), but you will be playing as if Sins was patched to an older version of the game. Plus some Icons and Buttons wont be visible.
Changes in TSOP 1.0
TSOP 1.0 updated to the latest versions of Original Sins, and Entrenchment.
The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.
Trade Ships, Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit Meshes, and Textures are Optimized.
Starbase Textures are optimized mimicking the Stardock Rebellion Optimizations.
Sounds, and Music are optimized.
All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.
"Strategic Texture Reductions" for the Particles return using newer methods to create a better looking texture.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) Many Mesh Null issues, and various File Errors were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.
(Original Sins, and Entrenchment) The Diplomacy 1.3 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Original Sins, and Entrenchment versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).
TSOP 1.0 for Trinity will see the return of Optimized Planets using the planet meshes from Rebellion! but with our Optimized Original Sins Textures!
There will be no version of TSOP made for Diplomacy, or Rebellion, because there is no need for it. Only Original Sins, and Entrenchment need TSOP, because the 2 gig issue, and various other issues were never fixed in those two versions of the game.
This is the FINAL version of TSOP that i will make. If the community wants to take over the project they are more than welcome to.
Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!
Note: TSOP does not fix the known issue of "Late Game Lag". It does help prolong the lag until further into the game in some cases, but sooner, or later the lag will happen. The late game lag issue is a CPU issue due to the fact that Sins (including Rebellion) is optimized to use only single core processors. Therefore Sins will use only one core in multi core CPU's. To help with the late game lag issue we recommend the following:
Playing on smaller maps.
Using fewer AI opponents.
Disabling the Trade Ship icons (this actually helps out a lot)
Stacking the icons in the empire tree (same as with disabling trade ship icons the less icons rendered the better).
Using a Strike Craft Reduction mod (The many strike craft in the game are a big CPU hog. There are some good strike craft mods that reduce the number, but maintain the balance. Search for them).
You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for the specific version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!
TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.
Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.
Maybe it is possible to set a thing of Filter wich fade the pole pinch a bit to make it a bit more hidden?
And please reup the Rapidshare File ... Or is the next Version nearly ready?
The sad thing is that Screenshots dont work for me, i hit the Print Key multiple Times but i cant find any Screenshot ...
Press PrtScr, Alt+Tab to desktop. Open almost any image editor and paste.
I need to find a reliable file host. Other than filefarce, and rapidcrap. The pole pinch is gonna remain for the next release. There is only so much time in a day i can work on this stuff
If you can download the filefront version afaik it is the volcanic planet textures corrupting. all versions textures are the same so swap em out with once of the good folders.
Particles are done for the original sins version. ram holds at around 1.125 gigs on a medium large map and 4 players. No visable difference in game except the framerate on my old sempron machine stays at 30 even with a ton of units and particles flying. Sound is still choppy but that always has been an issue, and i didnt mess with sounds.
Working on entrenchment, and diplomacy versions now shouldnt bee too much longer. Release should be tomorrow.
I used to use Mega Upload till they added the timer. Then I moved to ADrive which has a shorter timer and larger file capacity. My ADrive is almost like a wiki where me and a couple others share the account and password for easy sharing.
No timer or ads if you sign up. Test the download with a small .wav file here if you like.
For real quick sharing use DropBox. Anything placed in the DropBox Public folder is shared to anyone you supply the link to by right clinking on the file and getting the URL. This will use up your bandwidth if your on a limited bandwidth.
http://www.filehoster.info/filehoster
It is German but maybe u can use it.
Rapidshare is just a dump for Free User but good for Premium Accounts.
major stress,
I am content so far with my alternate downloader www.filefactory.com, and they have their own upload utility called fileturbo.
I would not recommend mediaflies as they will not me log back in so I dropped them.
I had also tried the dropbox, but was unable to share any files by links. it might be suitable for development teams where they share the dropbox, but for casual file sharing it did not work for me.
harpo
Dropbox must be running, check in your system tray. This the best for developers I found for sharing. The team leader should email a dropbox recommendation to there team, when a team member accepts and signs up the team leaders dropbox grows larger from 1 GB up to 10 GB. Team leader can share specific folders with team members or the hole team.
Highly recommend for any mod team. The fastest way ever to share a screen shot in a chat.
Heres a ss of the right click on a file in the public folder (temp use - will remove image) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1514086/DB.public.png
Now this image (or any file) is hosted in my computer and if I edit the file, changes will be immediate upon save.
BTW - For this file I could do the ADrive Mirror for you.
If 2 gigs was a lot of memory then, why did they design a game that seems to try it's hardest to exceed it's own operational threshold. That's what doesn't make sense. and in 06 multi core processors were the norm as well. yet there is only single thread support. No one saw this comming? We start creating software for hardware specs that don't exist yet. By the time the software is reaching final stages, hardware catches up. They knew that there was an intended overall switch to 64 bit os. They just didn't care. Was more practical to make a quick buck off of sins. also why they cancelled the 3rd expansion. So it seems to me that every thing you are doing are fixes Ironclad should be doing to extend the life of their game. Instead of just releasing an other expansion and leaving it to the community who paid good money for their product.
In regards to the above, that sounds like a great topic for another thread! Stress has actually done something to improve things with other's in mind and it's fully to his credit.
We're looking for that update as it sounds like this is going to really help game play--no pressure though, Major. After this you should be promoted to at least Colonel Stress.
@breakingfree37 - Sir if you wish to whine about this game like a little piglet please return to your own thread.
@Major Stress - Sorry about the ignorant, shoe sucking, bottom feeding, worm fecal matter. I appreciate your mod and what you are trying to do. Will keep the rest of this conversation on the appropriate channels.
No, I will answer that in Ironclads defense.
Like Homeworld was to Relic Sins is to Ironclad. Its first game. Ironclad was a brand new indie game company before Stardock helped them to produce Sins. In otherwords (no offense to Ironclad) they were NOOBS at making games. THAT is why they didnt see this comming. Total lack of experience. Just like modders had to learn things the hard way. Ironclad had to learn the hard way. You cant deny the support they have given sins over the years. Other companys like EA, or Relic as they are now would have abandoned the game after a only few patches, and said you are on your own guys as they laugh all the way to the bank. Irongclad is still trying to fix the game. This little project i am doing now may be one method they can chose to fix the memory problems. There are many more methods out there. I am only doing the obvious choice. 30+9+9 57 bucks for a game, and 2 expansions.. Can someone tell me how much the entire battlefield 2 series costed? and it is still broken with no more support, Or Dawn of War 2... oh yea another busted drm ridden game with little to zero support. Which would you chose.. Over priced and undersupported by the big money game companys, or a few bucks, and lots of support from guys that may, or may not be experienced, but at least THEY ARE TRYING.
I am doing my part to help.. What are you doing?
The Optimized Project 0.02 is up.
this mod looks interesting, i will keep a close eye on it
When I tried v0.01 with SoA2 then I got some nasty planet skins :
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/100321/ScreenShot_3_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/100321/ScreenShot_4_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
but when I copied the files -skipping only the entity.manifest- directly into the SoA2 mod folder (thus using only 1 incorporated mod) the planets got perfectly normal
Unfortunately when I do the same with v0.02 (also skipping english.str becaus i didn't find any changes in it) I get a minidump.
Did I overlook something?
http://image.gd/image,show,1,a76e03c5972ef37a8f714be3e194ff84da91302d,3
Thats how my Skyboxes are looking, i can test all of them when i re-enable the colored Skybox Option many times.
I have a problem with the Terran Planets too (you screens looking like my Desert Planet sometimes - ITS NOT EVERYTIME!). In the Night (Shadowside) they have another Texture on the same position as the Day. I see a big Line in the Night and the whole Land on the Planet is changing when the light comes and the same Land changing to the one with the Line when it goes into the Night.
my bad, I was enableing the mods in the wrong order
1. should be the Optimalization project
2. any other mod
I have seen the same thing that you posted when I was experimenting with v0.01 (to only use the planets from it)
so my guess would be that you missed some files.
New Problem:
With v0.02 some of my saved games fail to load, they just give minidumps.
They work perfectyl fine with v0.01.
I was going to suggest the mods were mixed regading one of the above. Mine all render fine (I have not tried a save game with the new one yet).
Polar pinch is noticable on all planets but quite modest with one exception. One of the Ice type planets has a distinctly disjointed north and south polar view and distorted seams in relation to the rest of the planets. Another ice planet shows fine but one is off. I'll try on a larger map with more planets later and upload a screen or two of it (errands to run).
Runs noticably faster than the last on map start--even in Diplomacy. Good job.
I wouldnt suggest using this with SoA 2, At least not yet. because SoA 2 has a totally different particle setup that will conflict. I should know i made the particle files for SoA 2. SoA 2 will get its own port of the optimization project.
I said before the pole pinch on planets was gonna be a problem. I havent had time to work on it yet, but it will be worked on. May have to make totally new planet textures to fix it because the vanilla textures are sectioned off and dont line up properly when you convert them to spherical maps. Then again they dont line up properly in the vanilla game ether.
When i run sins diplomacy on the systems of war map my ram usage now holds at around 1.5 gigs. What is it for you guys? On what maps, and how many players?
Next update will deal with the trade ships, and fighters.
can not wait( not literally) but definatly want/need the fighters optimising
What is SoA?
Using only Distant Stars. Do i have to set this Mod on the first Place to fix it?
yes you need to set it first above all else
also while this will help with DS (more so that SoA) we did add in more models (mostly from Celestial Bodies, planets basically, though there is one new ship the pirate battleship) so don't expect a huge change just a moderate one
I think i accomplished what i intended to do with this project. Diplomacy never goes past 1.5 gigs for me now. No matter the map. No matter how many AI players. The gameplay is much smoother, and not one single dump in any game i have played.
I will release one final update next week with the trade ships, and fighters optimized. I will try to fix the planets in the mean time, but no promises. Perhaps someone who knows XSI better than i do can fix them. After 0.03 i am focusing my attention back on SoA 2. The job here is done.
Obviously more can be done to optimize the game. Mesh poly counts can be reduced, and the UI itself can use some attention, but for now the fact that almost 500 megs were shaved off of the ram usage just by optimizing planets, skybox's, and particles is huge. I may dabble more into this later on. Everyone of course can contribute if you find a way to optimize an aspect of sins. By all means show us what you did.
Good work--if you can get the fighters and traders done I am sure someone can get around to the textures. Wow--nice job...but don't forget the traders/refineries and fighters/bombers *cough*. My poor ole comp needs all the help it can get.
but for now the fact that almost 500 megs were shaved off of the ram usage just by optimizing planets, skybox's, and particles is huge.
The ogg vorbis files are not lossless but similar too a mp3 files... these in sins are CBR 128 kb/s at 44khz ... i have try with the first advent sound, being around 3.5 mb ... using a 22khz at 64 kb/s with VBR, file is around 60% smaller with almost the same quality...
Since all sound use around 200-300 mb... around 150 mb of ram can be spared on sound...
Sound is usually pretty compressible without losing much for a pc speaker or standard set of headphones. If that saving is true it is certainly worth doing...or am I mistaken? Thanks for the info. Modding the sounds files is easily done (I have been dying to make Invader Zim sounds the Vasari anyway).
Nothing for me with a X-Fi and a Sennheiser Headset.
Edit: Hm ... Loading the Mod first but when i load Distant Stars as the Second One the Game freezes.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account