As many of you know, I play Vasari almost exclusively. Well, I was playing a game yesterday on Whirlwind with an Advent ally set to unfair with four enemies on hard and locked teams.
Good news: I have every pact with my advent ally.
Bad news: a TEC adversary is pounding away at me with Sova spams.
The choke point is a desert world protected by the best defenses I can put on it. Maxed out SB, turrets, hangars, repair bays, and the adjoining asteroid has a phase stabilizer. Unfortunately, my egg is elsewhere colonizing and my fleet is split because I am fighting a three front war against two enemies.
Because of that last item, the AI is able to practically steamroll me. I can't mount any offensive because of that. I am attempting to build my fleet because I finally reached the point at which I have unlocked the Vasari's late game arsenal, but whenever the AI attacks, my fleet gets shattered.
The only way I found to mitigate this is Skirantras. SB is now incredibly powerful and makes taking down capitals far easier. More importantly, RC is awesome. The point is, without them, I get slaughtered and the planet is bombed to oblivion.. With them, I take minor losses.
So, my point is that in this game, Skirantras are more or less the only thing keeping me alive. Without them, I get annihilated. Maybe it is because a good chunk of my FC is used on Envoys, but still, I almost feel obligated to use them. No longer is Scramble Bombers some worthless ability. Now it has a real effect on gameplay.
That part is good, but the problem is how critical it is now. This large amount of carriers makes countering them more difficult since it can throw more at me than I can return. I don't know if this AI's RNG just likes Sovas or if the Devs actually made it like them, but either way, it is significantly more difficult now than before. I'm fine with a difficulty buff. I am just wondering if the Skirantra should be the only thing able to stand up to Sova spams. Obviously it shouldn't, but the point remains... It is far more powerful than the others and as such is unbalanced. Do I think its OP? No. Do I think other caps should be buffed? Yes!
My concept of test games is simply to play full 1v1 games, though on the same set map rather than the random map, to try to establish some basic similarity between the games. I hadn't played Advent because there were always difficulties with them, so its good to finally be able to play the other side and experience the diffiulties. I've avoided Vasari with this patch though, the faction doesn't feel right, mainly because of Scramble Bombers.
Sometimes new players turn up for a game, I find that it's easy to recognise whether someone is a new player or a smurf, so that I can help new players with advice over the course of a game, if they are receptive. I have also played Agent a couple of times recently, though not to set up any specific scenarios. If I decide that I'm happy with the method, I'll start asking opponents whether they would be happy for the replay to be released, though I've had rather more than one thumping, I'm not sure what the Elite Warlords would make of it!
From one of the John James threads the developers commented that the game wasn't designed to work on the basis of a single ship versus another single ship, so I consider that sort of testing is really to discover bugs rather than for balance. I'm slightly perplexed by Agent's example, as it's not clear why the Skirantra would be destroyed, without anything apparently firing at it? If you refer to an example of gameplay, replays are far better than description.
I will say it again for many people who did not noticethe hawk saying this over and over again. The skintra was a good capital ship before, a carrier/support ship. IT DID NOT NEED REBUFFING!
The Hawk says this Agent Kharma, the Hawk knows you hate him, the Hawk knows that you are one of the most hated and dimwitted people on the forums, and the hawk says this, if you carry on with your nonsense, he will once again, rip out his VooDoo 5 graphics card, and slap you like a fish....
IF YA SMELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY WHAT THE HAWK IS COOKING!
Not all weapons are fired at the starbase, the marzas secondary weapons must have targeted the skintra carrier ship.
I believe it was the splash damage from the radiation bomb. The carrier was sitting next to the starbase, the marza was firing at the starbase and continuously rad-bombing, and the skirantra just went down. This was even with continuous repair cloud.
I will check the replay to see at what point my skirantra entered the grav well, but if you want we can try to duplicate this online.
EDIT:
From the replay -
- Starbase came online with 1482 hull, and immediately started upgrading hull.
- Starbase only ever fired at the marza. There was never anything else around to target (i.e. ships or structures).
- Starbase was down to 265 hull (1 hull upgrade already completed) when skirantra arrived within repair range and started using repair cloud. Marza still had all hull points remaining, negligible shield. Skirantra was positioned behind the starbase, with starbase between marza and skirantra.
- Looking carefully, the replay showed that the marza had indeed started targeting the skirantra with at least some weapons banks, because some missle trails were leading from the marza to the skirantra. Still, radiation bomb affected both marza and starbase together each time it was used.
- When the skirantra went down, the marza had 1624 out of 3054 hull points left. The starbase had 2339 out of 13500 hull points left (3 hull upgrades completed).
If you have a replay, why don't you post it instead of talking about it?
[_]-Greyfox
The reason I would never post a replay of anything publicly here is because of assholes.
I will make the replay available to someone like DesConnor, if people find the story I told to be unusual or surprising (for all I know, they don't). Alternatively, I have offered to test this out with someone like DesConnor in an actual game. But hell no, I'm not stupid enough to post a replay in a Sins forum that is dominated by assholes, LOL.
say it sunny!! lol
agent your are full of s***
lol what a lame excuse
@Everyone: This thread was closed down long ago.
@Ithatrus: I think enough has been said...
@Derek:
Uhh... Are you talking squads? If you are talking actual bombers, because unless I am mistaken, one Halcyon's Anima Tempest unleashes that many SC.
Also, please try to be more respectful of people on the forums. I have noticed that you habitually taunt others. Please don't.
@Blackhawk: I'm pretty much convinced that you are just a jerk...
@Agent: Would it be possible to repeat your tests with the Skirantra kiting so RB's DoT doesn't hit it? If so, thank you. I believe that doing so would help validate your results.
Hi Volt. We already agree that if I kited the skirantra in this situation, it wouldn't die. However, it also wouldn't be able to support the sb with repair cloud.
You see, all the naysayers who say "revert the buff" claim the skirantra was already some awe-inspiring ship before scramble bombers was buffed (interestingly, they all seem to be non-vasari players, possibly even vasari haters). I never thought the skirantra was particularly good, before the buff anyway.
Since the naysayers always claim skirantra was powerful pre-buff, I reverted the buff myself by simply not using scramble bombers. My point was to test the utility of a skirantra without scramble bombers, i.e. test the skirantra's repair cloud. So, I tried to use the skirantra to support an sb push with repair cloud. It was initially configured with fighters so as to - again - support an sb push (bombers destroy sb's, so fighters kill the bombers).
I already established under last patch that even 2 skirantras alternating repair cloud could not tank the damage from a single sova (GreyFox stupidly misses the point - as always - claiming I stupidly let my skirantras sit there taking the damage WHEN IN FACT THE POINT WAS TO LET THE SKIRANTRAS SIT THERE AND TAKE THE DAMAGE). It now seems that a skirantra cannot sit there and support an sb as it continuously upgrades its hull in the face of a single level1 marza using radiation bomb over and over.
We all agree with the following:
1. If the skirantra kited, it would have lived.
2. If a skirantra goes all bombers against a marza, and kites, it easily wins.
3. If a skirantra uses scramble bombers and kites against a marza, it easily wins.
But none of those things was my point.
Missing the point of what was written seems to be a huge problem in this thread .
Unfortunately... I probably missed much of what was said since I read over them last night when I was really really tired, so in that case I will address what I can...
In regards to Repair Cloud... It is commonly referred to as the best repair ability in the game when in fact technically it is not. Either the Overseer's or TEC RP heal would be arguably the best. The reason that people mistake this is that people forget (as Agent has brought to members' attentions in other threads) that people don't go through a fleet equally. They go through it via FF.
That said, I am not discounting the huge buff that it gives SC. Strike Craft already have a 20% I believe chance of dodging shots at them. Combine that with RC and they become much harder to kill for the duration. This is the true power of Repair Cloud. Yes, it can benefit ships against an AI or early game against a militia, but against a human opponent, it is unlikely to aid much in the way of frigates and capitals.
When Illuminators roamed free and killed at will, it was a must for any Vasari just to stand a chance. Now however, due to Illuminators being brought back into line, RC is no longer needed to defend frigates. It really only helps one ship and all nearby SC. That is truly what happens.
It should also be noted that the Skirantra is no tank. It is the either the weakest or second weakest capital ship in the game in regards to damage and its health isn't much better.
So.. What does the Skirantra do? What is its purpose? Support Strike Craft. Period. Look at its abilities: RC (obvious SC aid), SB (I'll get to this in a minute), and MA (obvious SC aid).
The above shows that contrary to popular belief, the Skirantra was no real powerhouse in previous patches. It helped the fleet, yes, but it was no powerhouse because it helped the fleet by helping SC. The Vasari have the Overseer, an awesome healing unit. RC is not needed for frigates and capitals but rather for SC.
The argument could be made that Agent was being stupid since he was putting the Skirantra in a position it was not made for. But! He was putting it in the position that many believe it to be powerful. Yes, you will save a few frigates, but its not the primary use of this ship. This ship was not powerful because of fleet support but because of SC support. It is true that the Vasari lack a true anti-SC ability, so they need help countering enemy SC. For this reason, the Skirantra is excellent at this sort of support.
I believe the misunderstanding may have come from what the point of the test was... Derek/Hawk/others believe that it was stupid to let the Skirantra die. Agent was testing the effectiveness of a ship at a purpose it is not designed for. I don't know what D/H/o meant when they said it was powerful, but the fact is, the Skirantra is decent at healing a fleet, but excels at SC healing.
For this reason, the test showed that the Skirantra is not good at healing things larger than SC, but did nothing for the concept of its power at healing SC. This discrepancy should be fixed...
Bingo. I couldn't have said most of what you said any better myself.
repair heals everything, incuding itself and strikecraft
this is why its the best heal ability in the game. i dont think any other ship in the game can effectivly heal itself while simultaneosly repairing ships around it. so 2-3 lvl7 skirratras are tough nuts as they are constantly getting healed
The thing is that agent repeatedly stated he was doing it to save a roid that was being bombed. He wasn't doing it to test some grand point of view balance wise except to bitch that it happened at all. He played stupidly and lost his caps because of it and not because he was testing a point. Yes, the skirantra heals SC and likely 1 other thing that is being focus fired. The thing is that before scramble bombers came into the limelight instead of repair that thing was a big fricking starbase getting built in your hw well. It was not uncommon to see 2 skirantra come with a SB to repair it as it built and after it was built with fighters to kill LRF and bombers that came to respond to the threat. Inevitably assailants would come around as well to kill LF taht you might build to respond to this since LRF are killed by the fighters. This was a very deadly thing to do and hard to respond to. Skirantras were certainly useful even just in fleet augmentation as well. As I have said repeatedly, it was a good cap before.
Some proof of Agent's bullshit in regards to the Sova incident. He wasn't proving a point. He was griping about it and sort of asking for advice.
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/372560
Derek, the Repair Cloud ability doesn't stack, it's a flat 30hps. More than one cloud just helps in coverage. Also, the little phase aura the ship does that helps protect strike craft? Also doesn't stack. Really the only reason to take more than one Skirantra is for multiple Scramble Bombers and backup for Repair Cloud in case one dies or runs out of AM. So having 2-7 Skirantras only really helps for getting a ton of bombers out... provided they don't get CC'd/Killed/AM-Wiped before they can manage it. It really does take several minutes to pump out a few waves of bombers... in the meantime you can pop those Skirantra pretty fast. So... as a nut? Not so hard to crack... a single Hoshinko assigned to each Sova (if you had 2-7 Sovas instead) could keep them up better than a Skirantra can repair itself and others.
Yeah and the Marauder is number 1, lol.
Also, just to address this, because everyone seems to think I wanted an Overseer buff... No. I do not. I just wanted the base model (not the upgrades) lowered a tier. I'm actually quite satisfied with their capabilities. Although I gotta say, the upgrades seem pointless/obsolete in Entrenchment/Diplomacy... which is also part of the problem with the Marauder... Quite a few of the original SINS capship abilities (all races) seem sort of obsolete after Entrenchment. Which is probably why many of them have been/are being redesigned.
-Itharus
Why do you feel the need to repost forum posts that are common knowledge that everyone has already read before? What... do you think I'm trying to "hide" a public forum post I made? Do you think it's a big secret or something? Boy, I guess you really feel like you "got me" with that, huh? Congrats! The post doesn't even prove the point that you are trying to make, but I can see that matters little to you?
I've told you time and time again not to address me, ever, you conniving, cowering little shit. But you don't listen, do you? Why is that? Do you just enjoy standing on my dick or something? Am I that important to you?
You're all big and bad flaming people and being an asshole from behind the protection of your computer, aren't you? But in real life, your just a loser and a nerd who'd never say anything to anyone because you know you'd get your teeth kicked in. You've never been laid in your life - that much is certain. I know your kind. You're a pathetic, sniveling, cowering little worm. But you're all big and bad behind the protection of your computer.
Listen, you subhuman maggot - I get it. You hate my guts. You really do. Guess what... I hate yours, too. I mean, there really is nothing I'd like more at the moment than to see a car run over you at 80 miles and hour and splatter your guts to kingdom come. Just imagining the carnage of your blood and guts running off the windshield of that car... I mean, it literally makes me burst out in laughter. It really does. Isn't that nice? You see, the way I see it is, that's just one less wart on the ass of society.
But until hell freezes over and pigs fly, I guess you're still here? So... what to do? The way I see it is, we have two choices:
1) Formally agree never to address or respond to each other on these forums ever again.
If you see a post from "Agent of Kharma," do you think it's possible to just not hit the "reply" button? Is this something you think we can work on together? I mean, under normal circumstances it's quite easy for me to not respond to your stuff, since I don't give a flying rat's ass about you. It's just hard to ignore you when you are constantly standing on my dick and hanging around my neck, night and day, like a damn ball and chain. Just like you are doing now.
2) We just go all out, polluting the forums with our flame wars until one of the devs bans one or both of us. Or... all three of us, coz I guess I will now have to "smell what the hawk is cooking," as he is certain to jump in here?
I guess this isn't the worst option in the world. I mean, I will be banned, but if you are banned too, it might be worth it, and the forums will be a much better place, not having to wade through all your feces? Mutually-assured destruction?
My choice is 1. I hereby formally pledge in front of everyone here that I will not be the first to "hit reply" to anything you say (something I in fact already do). Ever. But I guess you will choose 2? If so, I guess consider this my opening salvo?
The mothership.
(Sure, I know, it repairs shields instead of hull, but to me that makes little difference.)
Itharus -
Although the repair cloud heal doesn't stack directly, having multiple caps allows you to continuously use the ability without having to wait (as long) for cooldowns/AM regen.
You claimed that you were testing tanking ability of a skirantra and wanted it to sit there and take damage when that was not the case. You were playing an actual game and were mad because you thought sova was imbalanced because you let them get beat up by missle platforms. You misrepresented what happened in that actual game as many said after the OP in that thread. Now a few months later you come around and say you were testing something with that game when its BS. You claim no imbalance for skirantra with a marza alone killing SB and skirantra both but you won't show a replay when you state clearly that you have one. This is only one example of the many fabrications you have spread on the forums. Some of my other favorites have been that a few months ago you claim to be new and wanting advice on how to play but in posts lately claim to be here since beta and your persistent badmouthing of playing online for a while saying you rarely played online because it was so bad and then more recently saying thats all you play.
You can believe whatever you like to believe about my real life. It makes zero difference in it. I could try to set you straight on it but you wouldn't believe me anyways and its not worth the effort. It takes a lot for me to hate someone and I do not hate you despite your wish for my harm/life over something as silly as me calling you out on your lies about a game on an internet forum. However I have no respect for liars and that includes you. Call me anything you like if it makes you feel better but it changes me not one iota.
How could it not have simply been that he was playing the game, and decided to test the skirantra while he was there?
2 caps vs 1 with the 2 losing does make the 1 OP, especially when they're the same class.
I've never exactly been friends with Agent, but greayfox really needs to just knock it off. You've made your point, and now you've just degraded to the point of pure flaming. Have a little class and knock it off.
-Twilight Storm
He made it very clear that he was not testing it. Read the thread I linked. So I am flaming him when he states pretty clearly that he would like to see me killed(amongst other things)? The only thing I did was point out that he changed his story and called bullshit when I saw it. Losing 2 caps vs 1 is easy if one plays like an idiot. It doesn't make the 1 cap OP.
Still, you're trying to make the same point over and over and submitting the same evidence as if it's going to change anyone's mind. Everyone here has already foirmed an opinion(Even if in some cases that opinion is indifference) the only thing you can accomplish by furthering this is flaming, and eventually, as Agent said, getting yourself and him banned. Then what? You don't get to post here anymore, which you obviously enjoy as I see your name here a lot. Same with Agent. Are you that much of an arse that you're willing to continue this to the point you both get banned, and you don't care as long as he suffers too? There's no longer a point to your posting what you think of his playstyle, and he's asked you to stop harrassing him. So......stop?
I hate to further play into this piece of shit's harassment game (which is exactly what he wants). I'd rather us just go ahead and do an all out flame war, get banned, and get this the hell over with. But having said that, he wins I guess, because I will now respond and defend myself against accusations from some asshole over a post that's God knows how old.
In short, you are entirely right above. This is FROM THE EXACT LINK HE JUST POSTED, PAGE 1:
For the reading-comprehension impaired, please pay particular attention to the line "At that point it just became a test to me just to see how inferior the skirantra was."
Also from page 1:
So, by the very evidence presented by the little asshole himself, he's proven himself wrong. He's also proven wrong by the in-game replay, which shows me and my opponent discussing why a single sova should beat 2 skirantras, even as they were both dying. So, it was apparent that at that point I was no longer playing the game, and was in "spectator mode."
I guess the little shit will just go dig up some other post. Or he'll just continue sniping away at me from the shadows, every chance he gets. I wish he'd just die, but as someone once told me "wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up faster."
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