How does very low enemy PuG experience (and the resulting insane win %) indicate that they are very good players?

If you defend them and their playstyle, please do not ignore logic.

But I guess I have to give up. If not even objective statistics can make you see my point of view, it makes no sense to try anymore. Therefore

PuG stomping does not exist.

Happy now?

Well, as someone said previously, good luck finding opponents in the not-so-distant future.

The difference between you and reasonable people like Cosmoe is that they actually love the game and try to prevent it from dying, by preventing stomps that drive new players away from the game.

So, if you keep defending stomps, again, thanks for contributing to demigod's death .

This arguement is pointless unless we define what a "PuG Stomper" is.

My definition:
A team of players who are on VoiP that purposely play agaisnt terrible, inexperienced players who have no VoiP communication and have never played with each other before.

They dont use VoiP, they're not even a full "team" (only two of them) and they try their best to play agaisnt good players (hence the title of all their games).

Reasonable, eh.  I pride myself on my irrational EXPLANATIONS (in bold for emphasis).  Does anything I've said sound unreasonable?  Your comment is unreasonable.  I've pointed out that players, even people calling out PUG stompers, have participated in the exact same thing.  I've pointed out that the ladder, by design, favors players that group together as a team and fight weaker players, AND suggested how to fix it (you read the whole thread, right?).  I, perhaps unlike some PUG stompers as some like to call it, play premade v premade, my team v my team, as a pug myself, and my team v whoever will join. 

After seeing the horrible forum outcry, I started this thread were I helped people get voice chat up and running and balanced PUG games http://forums.demigodthegame.com/365726.  To have an actual discussion about premade teams and PUG stomps, I started this thread http://forums.demigodthegame.com/365479 and had some good dialog with many in the community. 

Also... yeah, I hate the game and that's why I play it more often than most.  Consider engaging your mind if you want to have a discussion.  I dare say I've put more of an effort than you ever have or will in trying to make the community better. 

Great, flame away, read what you want to read and quote what you want to quote. And please don't forget the pun about not engaging my mind when discussing.

Yes, i read the whole thread, specially this. Does it look reasonable enough to you? To which i replied:

 I don't know or have to know what you've done or not elsewhere to reply to what you wrote here, do I? Maybe you're right and i'm mentally unengaged   but it seems to me you've defended pug stomps here in this thread, and they're contributing to demigod's death. Hence the IF

I never wrote you hate the game or you're killing it, pls don't manipulate what i wrote, nor i would ever dare to compare my community efforts with yours, god save me. It just seemed to me you don't see or want to see stompers as a really bad thing for the game AND the community, to which pls let me disagree. Now, if i was wrong, my apologies, but that's what i understood reading this thread.

By stating the difference between you and "reasonable" people, you are indicating that I (specifically me) am not a reasonable person.  So you are starting your response out by taking a shot at me as either you are simply rude or quite passionate about this issue (so much so that you feel being rude is acceptable).  As you like.  You also indicate that I (again, specifically me) don't love the game and try to keep it from dying.  I respond by trying to make it clear that, not only do I care quite a bit, but I actually have done things about it.  Knowing all of my fantastic exploits is not really your job, so fair point there, but if you are going to single me out, then perhaps its best if you know anything about me. 

You draw the conclusion that PUG stomping needs to be prevented or new players will leave the game and that if I defend PUG stomping, I am contributing to demigod's death.  I disagree.  I believe the simple problem is that SOME players, much like yourself but not limited to only you, are over generalizing the state of demigod.  Its safe to say that there are many reasons people will leave the game.  I'd argue that most end up leaving the game because of techinical issues and exploits.  I'd also add the new overlay should make it easier to identify people that appear to do pug stomps.  If you want to cease with any personal attacks, I'm happy to follow suit. 

It may sound oh so sensational, but I don't see PUG stomping as a rampant problem that's ruining the community.  I don't mind it if people want to play games with their friends without balancing teams.   Please also note that the people accused of being pug stompers in this thread, played a game against some decent opponents and lost (eg they didn't kick good players, they simply played with the people that joined).  With the overlay, it should be much easier for people to avoid joining stacked games or simply leaving if they don't like the matchups. 

So, back to what I was saying originally to Cosmoe:

Pacov,

Ok. I'm sorry to be the one to point it out but maybe you are taking yourself too much seriously, no pun intended, really.

Maybe it's because i'm no native english speaker but AFAIK you also indicates plural 2nd person. I didn't single you out, I was referring to all the people who de-emphasized stomps in this thread, including you of course, compared to people (plural isnt it?) like Cosmoe, not only him. 

Neither did I take a shot at you, his attitude just seemed to me the most reasonable, you're the one implying i called you an unreasonable person, which i didn't. Maybe i didn't express myself correctly there, but i was trying to reflect the way you told Cosmoe the differences between you and him (that unlike him you don't care if imbalanced games occur, ins't it?   ).

I won't cease with any personal attacks cos i didn't even start with them nor I will. I'm eager to forget you sadly did, though.

I don't think we're over generalizing the state of demigod or the prevalence of Pug/Newb stompings. Game population is at times very low, and stomp games % is too high IMHO. Since i got the overlays beta i've realized how many of the few custom games available are dishonest PUG stomps, and IMHO until official overlays update comes more and more players will leave the game due to frustrating and highly unbalanced games. That's a big problem imho.

Seriously though, ok whoopie.  I took offense at they way you presented some information.  It happens.  I tried to explain why I took offense as clearly as possible.  You say you weren't taking a shot a me, ok.  My apologies for getting heated and making a bitchy comment towards you.  Fair enough?

But what are the numbers here?  I agree that game population is at times low, but what are stomp games and what % of games are stomps in your opinion?  I think our definition differs quite a bit here.  Is any game where a mismatch occurs a PUG stomp?  If not, how would you define it?

Of course i don't have any numbers, i just have my memory that reminds me i've joined quite a few games where i find a premade or a team of good stats chaps sitting in FoLight, see newbs fill the opposing team and hopelessly try to get a decent-balanced game going, either by swapping players or just kicking the newbs hoping decent players join next... to no avail. I end up leaving those games knowing those newbs will be stomped to hell, they'll probably learn nothing from the game and rage quit the game or even demigod entirely.