Hey guys, just wanted some quick help.
So for my entire Sins career, I've WANTED to play the Vasari. EVIL capital ships. BADASS phase gates. PHAAAASSEEEEEE space. I mean, why not?
But I just can't will myself to play them. Now, keep in mind that I play mostly single player or team play against AI with a friend, so I really can use (and love using) capital ships . I used to play TEC, and loved their capital ships and fleet sizes. Recently, I switched to Advent, who's caps are even more awesome, and also have a fleet that becomes unstoppable late-game. Plus nothing is more fun that CB rape beam.
From you Vasari players, why in the world should I play as them? Every time I've tried them, I've found their capital ships to be lackluster and their overpriced ships disappointing in power. Sure, phase gates rock, but they are darn expensive and only serve as nice little express-lanes to send my paper fleet to it's eventual destruction at the hands of an Advent battleball or TEC zergling rush.
Why in the world are they worth playing compared to the other two races? Help me out here!
1. starbase of uber-not-dieing ness... gazillion hp+30 armor+massave regneration +weapon uber effective agaisnt captial ships+MOVING... ok, so bombers still win... but you have "jam weapons" for that.
2. scouts... your scouts are uuuber... well, actually they kinda suck compared to other scouts considering thier fleet supply costs... just liek all the other vasari ships... BUT... you have the ability to caputer neutrals with your scouts!... THIS IS GAME CHANGING... games are won and lost due to neutrals... it is nessary that in any multiplayer team of 3v3 or higher that there are at least one vasari on your team to fight over the neutrals.
3. death egg... slightly nerfed now... but still very powerzorfull. their planet bomber is now rediculously sexy pwn... it kills planets faster than a maza now... and its lv 6 ablity... is like... supppananno+suppaheal
4. phase missles... bypassing that 60%+ shield mitigation is really... really... powerfull... and thier flack, lrm, fighters, bombers, and most of thier caps use them... this is the most effective weapon research line in the game.
5. RUN AWAY... varari are the best at running away... if you lost your fleet its cause you did something wrong... a late game vasari fleet may be weaker compared to a equlivent advent or tec fleet, but you should be able to use your phase gates/mauraders to run away and bypass phase jump disrupters... and your also craxy good at making the enemy not being able to run away... phase inhibitors at tech level 2... and grav bomb... grav bomb + inhibitors... = death to fleets... you should never ever have to fight a battle when your on thier terms, and you should always end up fighting on YOUR terms. force them to fight on your terms.
6. ???
7. profit.
hmmm for the joy of playing an alien?
well when you consider that the Vasari caps got a healthy does of something to make them better with 1.04 that may help motivate you. Many of the Vasari players are like "Hell ya, Vasari caps rock again" including the legendary N3ull who often pontificates over the uselessness of the Vasari caps and other things he is unhappy with
after that, I find its a personal choice though the Vasari Starbase rocks
um that is 30% for stock Sins
you are getting Distant Stars mixed in there, dont worry I do it too
but yeah still 30% shield bypass is another thing to consider, especially against those freaks call Advent
edit: miss read your post
d'oh facepalm with a godsmack
Thanks for the persuasions...keep them coming.
Quick question, any additional comments or suggestions concerning Vasari capital ships? I'm so used to building a Radiance or Kol and letting it be the hammer of my fleet. What should I expect for Vasari?
ya. your bypassing thier 60%+ shield mitigation 30% of the time... ya. i dont play your mod that much that i forget that simple stuff. (unless i feel like keeling your pathetic pirates.... teehee)
From what I am hearing the Kortul is now worthy of being a hammer. Have not tried it myself but even N3ull says it is worth getting now
I think I will have to make a special brand of pirate just for you
The most recent patch turned the Kortul into an absolute monster. I had a Kortul that singlehandedly fought off two AI fleets (caps and all) over the course of an hour without ever depleting its shields. I had to research antimatter regeneration upgrades, but it basically was an invulnerable engine of death.
Now, I love the new Kortul, but the Jerrasul Evacuator remains an awesome powerhouse thanks to nano disassemblers. The ability ignores armour, shields, and shield mitigation; it says it deals 25 damage per second and that's exactly how many hull points the target loses every second. Absolutely marvellous; a death sentence to most frigates and very deadly to capital ships and starbases alike.
And let's not forget the Skirantra carrier. Repair cloud is like shield restore for hulls, which is pretty darned awesome. While your Skirantra has antimatter, your fleet is virtually impervious to damage. But that's enough about Vasari capital ships.
Oh, and as others have mentioned: phase missiles. Absolutely amazing weapons. No other attack in the game comes close to the amazing power of phase missiles.
Darvin3,
That's exactly what I wanted to hear about caps. It's good to hear they got a boost...maybe I can try them out again. Might be a reason to play Vasari.
I was writing a response and it turned in a basic guide for units. it was waaay too long, and entirely too detailed.
I only play as Vasari. I have tried the other races, but nothing works for me more. I am just too... brutal. The other races require more microing, more balance and finesse. Vasari requires that you pick out what works, build a bunch of them and curb stomp some people. Other than the support cap, the updated capitals are pretty much amazing. The only reason I don't like the support though is the fact that if you are building it, and burning the crew and fleet capacity is that you feel you need an extra edge for escaping. Now I'm not much a quitter, so I never build one.
The starbase is almost orgasmic. It eats fleets faster than any other starbase. and for fun, if you have locked teams, build one in range of an allieys advent battle ball. good bye everything. actually do it even in unlocked teams and watch your ally (soon to be betrayed and wronged) scream and cry as your starbase devours his. plus it moves ... like a glacier. don't get too cocky about this. an enemy can easily come in and hurt you while your orky is waddling back over to them. you still have to position it strategically.
the frigates are mostly lack luster, they serve their purpose, nothing too special, pretty similar with all the races. the cruisers though are pretty sweet. especially with the update that fixed my personal bug of enforcers not firing. you have the typical carrier, then the ability annihilating support cruiser (so much time laughing as other support cruisers wuss out without being able to do anything), then the phase degrading overseer, that also heals (which makes the time it takes the enemy to get get to you slower... allowing for more healing and shield regen) and then the enforcer. in terms of heavy cruiser.. i really feel that this cant be beat. theyre tough, strong, and powerful. the additional ability to slow escaping units is nice too. The minelayer.. meh. He has a hilarious voice. and grav mines are nice (when they work).
All in all, I would say that the vasari is the race you pick when you want to destroy, betray and maim.
(this still turned out majorly long)
Most of the caps don't have weaponbanks in the rear.
The caps are wide; people can micro their shit right over the cap(s) in the middle of a battle.
that being said, the streamlined resourcing research is nice and although the phase gates and research is expensive, it's cheaper than building another fleet. Being one phasejump away from anything (two for the sun) is a critical advantage.
A part of what I like about the Vasari are there mobility. As antechtaire pointed out phase gates are austouding. Having 4 or 5 of them are worth 2 or 3 extra fleets because your fleets can be right where you want them. It speads up your flow of new ships if you put one where a factory is and one where you want the ships.
Nothing more needs to be said about phase missles except that working on one tree upgrades the LRF, the flack, the bombers and the fighters. It makes the Vasari very good at killing things.
I only play Vasari for these reasons and for one other. They have the best voices. I cant stand the advent and the TEC's LRM voice pisses me off when I hear it. He has such pride when he says "All ordanece acounted for!!!!" He should not be commanding a ship.
If you don't play the Vasari, now, they will abduct you, geneticially modify you, and leave you sitting on Venus breathing in normally toxic fumes all day long for the next several thousand years until the nano-matrix they placed in your blood stream finally breaks down and ceases to keep repairing the gigantic hole in your head where humans normally have a brain, but which was somehow forgotten in your case.
If you are not one of us, you will serve us, or you will serve as an example of what happens to those who oppose us.
-Overlord Itharus, Master of the 4th Conquest Fleet, Primarch of Ash'beju, Keeper of the Ternak Gate, and voted Most Handsome Vasari Alive six years in a row by the 'valued citizens' of his 'client worlds'.
Naw... I'm pretty sure they just probe you with weird vibrating objects that are made by the Japanese. Poor uncle Pete.
Well...looks like I might be playing some Vasari this weekend....I'm actually looking forward to phase gates and phase missiles....
Quick question....when you have a fleet with a marauder lvl 6 ability, can the entire fleet jump into phase space, or just the entire fleet minus the marauder (the marauder gets left behind)? I certainly hope its thet first...although I've never gotten it to work.
minus the Marauder, it has to hold the phase gate
Every five minutes you get to hear a guy who just sprinted ten miles say "Our ships have exited phaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase space"
and then laugh at Mr. Raspy.
plus, Fleet Immobilization + instant jump gate from the Kostura is pure p0wnage.
a tip: mix Volatile Nanites (Kortul lvl6), Phase Missile Swarm (Vulkorus)(and I refuse to use the acronym), and Gravity Warhead (Dee Aig!... that's "the egg" with a thick accent).
Volatile nanites makes big AoE boom with each hit, Phase Missile Swarm pummels targets with missiles, and Grav warhead keeps them from getting away.
then, use the Egg's nanites ability to destroy any frigate and most cruisers with a single use.
Repair cloud and Phase out hull against Marza
Assailant's Phase missile AoE ability (phase missiles AND AoE!)
Distort Gravity (Marauder) makes your ships faster, and makes them immune to phase jump inhibition. great expoiting tactic: two marauders on a rampage behind enemy lines. worst case scenario: one is destroyed as other phase gates away.
edit: double post
actually, i have had it go both ways, one where the Marauder had to hold, one where it went with the fleet. Just know that there is a bug with phase gates on starbases - they will not work on the sun, only on bases with a planet by it.
Welcome to the world of phase space... may you dodge and roll well!
The Starbase phase gates are massively bugged anyway... they only work in one damned direction (I forget at the moment whether or not it is coming to or going from (I think it's coming to)). And if that's not a bug... shame on you, IC! Cuz g'damnit for a gate not to flow both ways makes little sense (other than from a kostura, as that's more like riding the phase-wake of the shell into the system, so it's ok - although if it just lasted 10-15 more seconds it'd be PERFECT).
For that matter... just beware phase gates in general, there are all kinds of strange little bugs that only seem to crop up sporadically. Fiesty nanite clusters developing a goblin personality, I guess.
A note on the Marauders: "Jump inhibition immune" does NOT apply to Starbase phase lane destabilization, they still take the 30% hull and 100% antimatter hit (boo!!!). Also, they hit like girls. I mean honestly, I think a Skirmisher does more damage, it's sad, they need dps lovin'.
And last but not least: ALWAYS build Marauders in pairs or more. They are (almost) USELESS by themselves, but work very well in packs. Oh, and Subversion (effect, not duration, duration just refreshes) stacks... I think infinitely, so you can slow down an enemy world's production to a snail's pace - and it gives you a remote sensor on the world to boot. IMO Marauders are fun toys in singple-player, but really shine with creative use in Multi-player.
Happy subjugating!
-Itharus
I'll add a few more observations. (BTW: Pbhead, nice summary!)
6. Vasari are the best race for rushing. 1 military lab for LRFs (assailants). The same for repair and/or seige. 2 for a StarBase. Scouts quickly grab neutrals. An Egg with Nano Dissambler can take on almost any other Cap ship. (Try SB rushing, with 1 upgrade to it's weapons, and que it to move across their structures. Complete Wipeout!)
If the enemy is nearby, you can hit him with substantial forces before he has a chance to get going.
7. Late game, one of the strongest Economies! Granted it takes 4 labs to get tradeports, but there are many discounts available. Including the Enslaved Labor tech, Crystal & Metal combined in 1 research, neutral stealing scouts, (also improved population growth rates, improved salvage, etc).
8. Returning Armada is awesome (2nd level). It is feasible to get by with only 1 military lab, tech to RA in civic tree, and end up with an awesome diversified fleet (including tier 5 HCs).
9. Kostura Cannons are a true superweapon. No prequisite research required, just 8 mil labs. Awesome special effects and destructive power.
I have to wonder if the Kortul is bugged? I had a high level (level 6) Kortul go one on one with my fully upgraded Vasari StarBase, and it wouldn't DIE! The SB couldn't even deplete the Kortul's shields! The same Kortul took on 3 level 4 or 5 Cap ships, and wouldn't die. I went back and looked at the replay. I couldn't believe it.
wait wait wait. If you fire the kostura cannon, you can follow it in? is that what was said/inferred? holy crap< i didnt know that.
Yeah with starbases i have never gotten the phase lane ability to work both ways... and im not sure why.
Yeah, but only in Entrenchment (not vanilla Sins).
And, I've had a level 6 Marauder that jumped (both itself & its fleet) to a Kostura shot at the enemy home world.
I havent played vanilla in a while. ok,so do you have to wait for it to hit, or can you go as soon as it fires? also im assuming you have to be starting from the same gravity well? does this work across stars? this is basically a game ender, and its really wipe the smug-ass grin from my roommates face.
If I recall correctly... wait for it to hit, and create the "phase gate" there. And, no you don't have to start from the same gravity well with a level 6 Marauder. It can create a phase gate where ever it is. I would expect that it works across stars, but don't know this for sure.
the shot must land first. then you can jump to that world.
And the only way to take down the new Kortul is by depleating it's antimater. Get Caps that can shut it down! No antimater means
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