Show of hands, who thinks Canada needs a bigger and better military. Americans can't vote, your military has already screwed the world over enough times, including Canada ( cough, cough Avro Arrow) So, besides those greedy bas***ds, who thinks Canada needs a bigger military.
I think I'm just going to stay out of this one. This thread is little more than a flamewar that looks to be devolving into something worse.
I thought there was an OTF Inflammatory area for this crap.
Cadalancea
And people like you are easy to discredit since you spew nonsense with no proof.
And no, a few links to a couple websites isn't enough proof.
Guantanamo Bay again isnt proof of a Military out of control. And we can only speculate on whats going on there. Not able to actually PROVE (which you seem to always lack Scout...facts and proof, you also seem to lack any up to date general knowledge of goings on in places like Iraq and Afghanistan) whats going on there. But I know your next counter arguement already. JUST BECAUSE I HAVE NO REAL INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF A SITUATION DOESNT MEAN I DONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON! Well Scout, to be honest you need atleast some kindof grounded knowledge of something so your arguement has legs to stand on. And when you make blatant remarks about things that arent even relevant to the current situation. Your only undermining yourself. Not those ANGRY GRRRR! Militarists as you call us. Wake up and realize just because people can see a full spectrum of colors and not just black (evil) and white (good) doesnt mean we fully support the US when they go and fuck up. Our points are pretty transparent, we rather weight both good and evil a country or its military does then just outright IGNORE the good that they do.
As well civilians dying during war. Wow what a surprise. Those things never happened before. GOD DAMN YOU AMERICA ! ! !
.....no not really that last part was all sarcasm.
Heres alittle eye opener for you. War is ugly, infact its always been ugly. People die unnecessarily during war. This Ill admit, TOO many civilians have died during war. Not just in OIF or OEF. But ALL wars. During WW2 both the Allies and Nazi and the Japanese dropped bombs on civilians. And yes before you even say it. BUT AMERICA DROPPED A NUKE!! !! Well yes yes we did. And it was a grave lesson for EVERYONE. Even America who decided to never use Nukes again in conventinal warfare. And again before you start spewing how many we have. Might I remind you that the Soviet Union started the arms race and just about every modern nation including sweettits France has their own stockpile. But were all here, and if America was the evil country its made out to be. Well, we wouldnt be here right now would we?
Like I said Ill own up to any of Americas shortcomings without all the twisting and blatant generalizations about whats going on. But just because this is 2010 doesnt mean that War is so far different from back in the Roman times. And if your biggest proof that America is this great threat to the world is Gitmo and civilians dying in war (I know its a shock to people who watched one too many movies and shows about it) but civilians die in war all the time, regardless if its American Troops or not. But I dont see you up in verbal arms about countries in Africa, or Southern Asia. But like I said before. Sometimes you cant please people that are only looking for something to be angry about. And why not America. Its on top, it has technology and an abundance of food and water. They should SHARE!!!
Haha, well this is the whole point of my spew right here. Everything you say is so lobsided that if you were out to sea in that arguement. Youd take on water.
Nothing is pretty about War, it never has been and never will be. And just because its the US involved in it doesnt mean suddenly the realities of war are going to change. I dont like the idea of innocent lives being lost as much as the next person. But if you truely believe that the Military is needed. You wouldnt be bashing it so hard. The truth is, your not criticizing. Your looking to discredit and paint the US Military as this great evil thats at the heart of this countries corruption.
From here on out. You can talk all the crazy talk you want. But Ill be skipping over your posts because I know from here on out. Youll twist everything thats said, ignore key points and just totally show how BEHIND ON THE TIMES you are. Like your spew about what America needed to do for Iraqs infrastructure. Like your the only one to have thought of that. Oh thats right, you thought of that a good 6 + years after the fact those plans for infrastructure was set into action.
LMFAO someone got a nerve struck dude calm the fuck down you are getting pissed over this crap on a GAMING FORUM.
If I was pissed Id be name calling. But it was a good try trying to make me look as if I was ALL FLIPPING MAD! Believe me the all caps is for dramatic effect not actual anger.
Scoutdog; Did the US cause 9/11? IS bin laden friends with George W?
Tell us more of your lunatic fantasies.
Yes, it's pretty easy to see that you are a troll.
Trust me Dark, theres no point in arguing with the guy. Hell ignore everything you say and only make halfbaked accusations that hell later deny or change to continue arguing with you.
what conspiracy theories? like I said, you cant refute my points so you twist things.
short of a ban you cant get me to leave this thread. good luck with that.
As for the conspiracy theories, try this obsession with my "twisting" things to turn the whole world against you.... or your idea that the political left is somehow organized to undermine the world (if they were, I can assure you the Collective would not allow you to post about it on the internet) or the whole Guantanimo-bay-was-manufactured-by-me-and-Keith-Olbermann bit...... shall I go on...
Sooooooooooooooooooooooo thin-skinned.(The military and militarists in general, I mean)
haha, when did i mention the political left? or that gitmo was manufactured? Oh you and your twisty ways....Only thin skinned person here is you. Ignoring peoples points and making irrelevant posts when people get under your skin because they dont snap to attention and follow your mudflinging.
You are either an idiot or a troll, take your pick.
I know plenty of liberal friends who don't think like you do. I asked you if you believed 9/11 is a conspiracy because you talk exactly like most of today's conspiracy theorists talk: Like a lunatic who doesn't know shit.
Any good conspiracy needs a shred of sense to make it a good conspiracy... Like the JFK assassination or Area 51. People like you don't need sense when you have none.
Did the US also fake the lunar landings?
Are you allergic to wifi?
Do you believe in Planet X? Are all of the politicians secretly aliens?
I am? Last I checked I was libertarian. Would you like to make up any more bullshit?
Conpiracy theories? Political left? Gitmo? Seems to me (And others) that you are the only one mouthing off about things that aren't even part of the conversation, and making assumptions (Not to mention accusations) that aren't true.
Scoutdog, don't be all pissy because America is defending itself, other countries, and then protecting 3rd world to 2nd world countries when bad !@#$ goes down, okay? Now, we all know that America has done some fcked up !@#$ in it's past. But no other country hasn't. No country is a saint. Whatever country you're from(I've been skimming your pathetic posts this entire thread), it's done something that we could knock you down on. Give me an hour, and I will break you down by your countries actions. Either the past or the present. If you're american, then you're a god damn hypocrite. TRY TO SUPPORT YOUR COUNTRY. Like many people have said, the military only follows orders. They want to support their country. And if they don't follow the orders given to them, they get shipped out. How will you support your military when you ignore orders? And like Allegiance has said, we cannot forget the good that America has done. Because we are at the top, we are the ones being the bullies. Because we actually give a rats ass, we have to take the !@#$. And about whoever the hell said that we should deal with our domestic problems first, and then work on worldwide problems, why that could take a really long time. NOW, think of countries like Haiti and some African countries. How long would they last without our aid? Think of Some of the countries that we're invading now. If we don't interfere with the !@#$ going down there, then how many incidents like 911 would there be? And would it be only America? Oh hell no. It would be the world. They are angry at everybody!!!
S'cuse my spelling.
Yea this needs to be locked.
He's 15 and in the United States (Check his profile). That explains his ignorance and lack of studying history.
Damn guys, flame much? you guys really have to simmer down, after all, every person posting in this thread IS a member of a NATO country (unless you live in australia or elsewhere, but they are still on friendly terms) and technically we are all allies, yet we flame and do our little pissing contests about some topic that is not even all that important.
The USA and the entire western World (yes, my/our Canada as well) will always be the land of the free, the land of the prosperous, the land of the people, but there ARE complications. Politics blows all will agree, it's a pathetic attempt by the ruling social classes to control our lives with their "laws and regulations" (or lack therof) that are self destructive and only lead to long term socieital instability. Politicians are rarely for the people, mostly for themselves or their country as a whole (i.e. national pride/ patriotism) , which may sound mean, but it's true. see Obama for instance, he didn't wake wake up 20 years ago saying "i'm gonna help my people!" and run for senator, he ran for senator and then president because it would help himself and his ideals. I'm not by any means anti-american or anti-peacekeeping (i am, however strongly opposed to the shady politics of the middle east and other places and agression in general) but i'm simply saying: politicians (who may not conciously think this) who are in it for their ideals (bush) may manipulate the generally honourable and Valiant uniform into fighting personal proxy wars, like the iraq war, which was justified by searching for WMD's and 9/11 in order to secure oil rights (don't deny it).
But to close I must say a two words. Thank You.
To all soldiers of the people, whether they be American, Canadian, British, Taiwnese nationalist, Russian, African. Thank you, with out your kind's many, many heroic and selfless actions I would not be here, or be opressed or enslaved, and not know the freedom to which we all take so lightly. We will never forget. We all silently agree, in our heart of hearts, without You, there would be no peace, Freedom, Justice or responsibility. I only wish the people who led us were like the uniformed kind, but we may only wish.
To be honest, While serving over in Iraq I saw no evidence of oil rights. Not saying it didnt happen. But from late 07 to early 09 the oil fields were still heavily damaged and barely running if at all. And America itself actually relys heavily on its own fuel supply. And its believed theres twice as much fuel yet to be discovered off the coast of the US. So really I dont know why people are still convinced that the oil coming out of the Middle East is whats sought after by Americans. On top of that. A good number of US Politicians are pushing for green resources. Which means even less oil is intended to be used soon. My point is, whatever the true intentions were (which personally I believe was a family feud) only Bush and his croonies will truely know atleast for the next 20 years until we can truely assess what happened and why.
um, hey man, I know you're a soldier and all, but do you have sufficient rank to know for sure based on your experience? Also, the middle east areas that have been occupied and freed by the western nations are being rebuilt and remade, and the oil fields under allied control will soon recover to some degree, not totally, but to some degree. And by the way, 95% of sizable oil wells (beased on were there is suitably old sedimentary rock) have been found and many of those have been exploited and/or are about to be exploited more. The most sizable oil reserve in the developed North America are the oil sands in good ol' Canada found in Saskatchewan, Alberta, and Manitoba. There are also sizable wells in the Gulf of mexico and central USA (Stereotypical Texas oil tycoon anyone?)
The middle east nations (like Saudi Arabia) still, dispite being politically unstable, export much of their oil for billions of dollars of American taxpayers' money as well as to other western nations, saying otherwise is simply naive To quote the readilly available (and reliable) wikipedia: "Saudi Arabia is the world's leading petroleum exporter. Petroleum exports fuel the Saudi economy.[6] Oil accounts for more than 90 percent of exports and nearly 75 percent of government revenues,................." this is repeated many times throughout the internet :
"Generating 14% of the world’s oil exports and the same percentage for overall oil production, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia leads all other countries in petroleum products and oil exports.
Saudi Arabia owns 20% of the world’s proven oil reserves. The petroleum sector accounts for more than 90% of the Middle Eastern country’s exports."
90% of the middle East? wait, that should sabotage my whole argument, shoulden't it? No, it won't. Mostly because Saudi Arabia is the only well-developed country in the region, which allows it to export more without interuptions by power shifts or by local conflict. Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran truthfully are not the best potential oil producers, but the very fact that it is there and realtively unused by the local area makes any attempt to close the distance between the US and the oil obvious. So I hate to burst your bubble but the US is there for more than peace man, but to be fair, most servicemen like yourself don't like hearing that your heroic actions and humanitarian work is taking a back seat to corporate intrests and gambles. But in all respect, all power to you.
Read more at Suite101: Saudi Arabian Exports & Imports: Oil Exports Represent over 98% of Saudi Shipments to USA http://import-export.suite101.com/article.cfm/saudi_arabian_exports_imports#ixzz0dgDOXjrf
Do you have sufficient rank to know? I guess not. Like I said, I cant be sure but from my personal experience I saw no evidence of it.
And your info lacks statistics for how much oil the US uses from its own stockpile compared to Saudi Arabia (which isnt the country thats being disputed) And like I just said, when I was there little over a year ago the majority of Oil Rigs in Iraq were still heavily damaged and unusuable at that point. If we were there for just oil. Or that was our main reason for being there, Im pretty sure thats the first thing the US Government would have spent money on fixing.
This has nothing to do with me being a ServiceMember and having my feelings hurt. I made sacrifices yes, but I didnt die for the War in Iraq and my job was in no related to oil, My job was security and stabibility so that the Iraqi Government was able to grow strong enough to take over, so your attempt to make me look biased is really weak. Ive already admitted the War in Iraq was a grave mistake. But until you can show some actual proof not a bunch of accusations that are unfounded. Im not going to readily jump on the bandwagon and believe every word you spill about the US only going to war over oil.
And considering the US hasnt been in the practice of grabbing up land or even hoarding resources for over a hundred years. You might just be confusing the US before WW1 with the US after WW1. Big difference in foreign policy there.
And that little link doesnt prove your arguement it says nothing about US using its own oil only listing how much another country exports to us. As well it doesnt have anything to do with OIF which means its totally irrelevant. If you could show me the number of Oil Exports for Iraq to the US compared to Oil Exports to the US pre Saddam. Then yeah you might have some legs to stand on.
But baseless accusations will never be enough to prove to me the US is only there for oil.
Heeeey, guys! Did you see that one Daily Show few weeks, where they ripped on the underwear bomber?
I lol'd out of my chair.
TERRORISM 2.0!
By....Yemen!
God, I love the Daily Show.
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