Hey guys, sorry ahead of time for spewing out so many ideas lately, however...
I've got another. In most strategy games, you can create alliances in which other entities are obligated to come to your aid (or theirs) when war is declared on the coalition of allies. I was wondering if it would be possible, though, to introduce a diplomacy mechanic by which a third party (or multiple parties) will threaten to declare war on a kingdom if it does not cease war with another kingdom that favors a peaceful solution.
This scenario would classically be seen when an aggressor attacks another kingdom and is defeating them and the third party kingdoms mentioned prior want to see the expansion of the aggressor checked without necessarily having to go to war. The scenario might proceed as follows.
The large and militarily formidable Kingdom A has conquered many other smaller kingdoms, and sets its sites on Kingdom B. They declare war on Kingdom B, and swiftly capture 2 of Kingdom B's cities. These rapid and violent acquisitions greatly concern Kingdoms C and D. Kingdom B is certain that it cannot win the war, and is eagar for a peaceful solution. As a consequence, Kingdom B calls an audience with C and D, but while C and D are concerned about A's expansion, would prefer first to exhaust diplomatic options before going to war on B's behalf. Together, they confront Kingdom A and demand that peace be promptly made, lest C and D escalate the war on the side of B. Kingdom A determines that fighting all three will be a fruitless stalemate and decides to consolidate their modest gains by accepting the gunbarrel peace offer.
I think the GalCiv2 AI did this sometimes. It's a great idea, though you have to be careful about not turning it into a cheese-fest of "everyone gang up on the winner". In the real world, at least, superpowers have as many sycophants as open enemies, and perhaps more. Of course, subversive sycophants can make troublesome friends.
Right. But what Galactic Civs 2 didn't give you was such an option on the diplomacy screen. Sure, you could get races to all gather together against a common enemy, but the key here is being able to threaten the foe before going to war, rather than just get everyone to declare war at once without provocation. That way, you can check someone's expansion with more peaceful options.
Ideally, this kind of scenario would kick into effect against highly aggressive individuals, rather than someone who is simply winning or "powerful." Basically, these third parties would need ample evidence that they are likely next somewhere down the line. And of course, an aggressive individual who has been playing his diplomacy cards well won't have to expect his friends to rise against him.
It would be nice if minor countries that happened to be closely clusterred together ended up forming a Holy Roman Empire style of mutual protection treaties, trade agreements, and perhaps recognised a central authority. It would fast prevent steam rolling...
It's a great idea! I've been playing the Total War series a lot, and I've really really missed a diplomacy option like this. I know that TW has never been famous for it's diplomacy (hey... it's TOTAL WAR, right?) but it has really annoyed me, that there simply hasn't been this option.
What I would like to see was:
a ) The diplomacy screen option to barter for peace on behalf of another player:
"Dear Mr. King A
It has come to my attention that you've been burning of Emperor Y's countryside. If You would please stop doing that, I'll give you 1000 gold pieces and this marvellous tech, that let's you pave your roads
Yours Truly
Player Z"
b ) A muliti-diplomacy-screen option where you would be able to open up negotiations in a specific order with a specific agenda in mind. Imagine that you wanted to stop above mentionen Emperor Y from burning more of King A's cities, but you do not yourself posses enough "leverage" to really make a bartering point against Y. You would then be able to open op secondary negotiations with King B and ask him to supply some of the leverage. I've tried to draw my point (image-alert!):
edit: typos, changed image URL
Maybe a warning/guarantee system as found in the EU series would work?
That's actually a pretty good idea, Demi. I would love to see something like this.
A bit off-topic, but related: make alliances useful, and make them demanding. What I mean by that is that most 4X games have this flaw when your AI ally will declare war but won't even notice you're not helping him. Have the AI check whether or not you are helping, have it quantify that help (it could be money, troops, or attacking the common enemy). And take inspiration from Alpha Centauri for the coordinated attack plans in the diplomatic screen ("I attack city A, you attack city Z").
This is somewhat like an idea I posted some time ago in one of the diplomacy discussions (but I can't seem to find my original post). I would like the option to negotiate between multiple opponents at once, or be an intermediary between others.
Imagine something like this...
This is just one simple example, but I think the possibilities for such a dimplomatic negotiation are endless... Broker a mariage between two enemies to end a war (with a goodwill bonus to you?)
What would be even better is if you can negotiate through someone else...
Good idea Demi, and nice Diagram CMonkey.
Personally though. If I'm a huge Empire and I'm busy smashing a enemy and country C sticks it's nose in to ask me to stop, country C jumps to the top of my list of "Who to whipe out next".
Then again....I'm Evil
Amen!
Excellent work on the interface sample! Couldn't have illustrated better myself (I'm an abysmal artist, though!)
Thanks!
I really think that we could work with this idea, it's got some great potential! In a 4x game where diplomacy is a rather large part of the game, there's nothing more annoying the concept defeated by poor diplomacy design. I could hope that Elemental would be the game to set a new standard in diplomacy-ing, which I believe that a concept like in this thread would really support.
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