Disrupt shields ability on subverter can't target starbases or buildings with shields. Maybe this is not a bug but TEC designate target can target them so subverter abiliti should also target it.
no, Subverter's shield disruption ability is supposed to disrupt shields; TEC's Designate Target is supposed to increase the damage against certain targets.
They are intended to do two different but similar things. Also, Subverter has the Teleport Disable, which allows it to get right up and personal to something; the Cielo doesn't.
Cielo Command: Great support frigate. That +40% damage buff is lethal on caps. Just one of these is like making your fleet 40% larger. That is a VERY powerful ability. Its other ability is a bit lackluster, although it goes well with GRG+FF+FH.
Stilakulus Subverter: Good support ship. It damages shields directly and can knock out Cielos and Hoho's easily.
Domina Subjugator: For some odd reason, people don't like this. I love this ship and this is actually my favorite ship of this type. Suppression is awesome. Sure, you can't do anything else while using it, but it has an AoE. Perseverance is also a great healing move. While its not the Overseer's Nano Armor or SR, its still a very good heal for a ship of this type.
It was good, but now it dies very easily and Distortion Field has a short range even though it should counter Repulse.
People don't like this ship because its abilities are chanelled and so you have to micro this ship. Its abilities are fine, buit not worth the micro.
Are you sure? I thought that only the Subverter has an AOE stun.
Suppresssion only affects 1 enemy ship at a time.
its not damaging shields, it lowers mitigation and increases effieciency of phase missiles. it act like a weaker version of designate target then why it cant target starbases? they have shields too.
as i said starbases have shields and buidings under shield bestowal also have shields to disrupt.
Well, then it must have been a very big bug when I used it because it hit 3/4 of his ships...
Shield Disruption doesn't target SBs because it wouldn't be effective. Designate Target offers a 40% damage multiplier to the target of the ability; Shield Disruption lowers mitigation and increase PM effectiveness.
Do the math, Shield Disruption has NONE of the effeciency of Designate Target. Plus- an SBs weapons have the following ranges- 8000 for base weapons, 6500 (6000 on Orky) for close-range weapons, and 10500 for LR-weapons. Designate Target has a range of 9000. Shield Disruption has a range of 5000. Even if the Subverter has Teleport Disable, that has a range of 6000. Subverters CANNOT close range SAFELY with a Starbase. Cielos can sit and repeatedly use their ability on the SB.
Why? Well, unfortunately, SBs seem to not engage targets at their maximum weapons range (10500); instead the tend to engage targets that enter their basic weapons range, and then once in range of the short-range weapons, shoot everything they have.
So, likely Subverter's cannot target SBs because they wouldn't be able to survive. Granted, Cielos don't stand a good chance against Orkys (they MOOOVE), but still, the Orky will be w/in the Cielos Designate Target range before the Cielo is w/in the Orky's weapons range.
Whiskey you are wrong. Have you ever used this abilty?? shield disruption would be very effective agaist SBs because lower mitigation means more damage and 10% more phase misiles will bypass shield. You dont have to worry about subverters live because this ability is not channeling... you can retreat subverter if you want.
if you dont belive, you probably have the game and you can check it out.
Pawelo is right, shield disruption is very useful, especially in assailant and carrier heavy fleets. Its not a channeled ability. I say if its got shields, subverters should be able to disrupt them.
I'm just skeptical of the usefulness of this ATM, as Subverters are so weak, and their abilities ranges aren't long enough to get w/in an SBs range and actually work.
The range doesnt matter, there are very few things that can outrange a starbase, yet that does not determine whether or not their abilities work on starbases, plus overseers and skirantras can keep subverters "alive". If you applied your range argument to designate target, the same could be said, and yet deesignate target can effect sbs.
aah, but Designate Target outranges the 1st two weapon upgrades on SBs, and SBs for some reason don't engage what's at the range of their LR-weapons, so Designate Target can work.
However, I will admit, that with a general buff to the Subverters, and especially TeleportDisable, that it would be useful. Perhaps it doesn't apply because it doesn't affect Caps, or maybe the Devs forgot about it.
I think this is the most likely situation, as shields were only added to structures in Entrenchment, so there was no reason for subverters to be able to target them with shield disruption before then. Designate target has always been able to target structures, so they didnt have to change anything about them when entrenchment came out.
For phase missiles it is a bit sophisticated.
Let's say we have phase missiles with 30% chance to bypass shields.
Normally, 70% of the missiles do 35% damage (mitigated) and the rest (30%) do full damage (evaded shields).So, in general your missiles do 54,5% of their full DPS.With shield disruption it is 55% missiles doing full damage and 45% doing 45% damage.This means your missiles do 75,25% of their full DPS.
75,25/54.4 = ~1.38
In any other circumstances (advent massive shield restoration abilities and mitigation culture bump anyone??), the bonus is even higher (if you don't upgrade PMs, for example, the 25% bypass has an even greater relative effect).
Let's say we have non-upgraded Phase Missiles (we're idiots, but maybe we went HCs?). Normally they do 35% damage (65% mitigated). With Shield Disruption active, 25% will pass untroubled and 75% will suffer from 10% less mitigation. This means that unupgraded phase missiles will do an average of 58,75% of its total damage.
Second - Designate target has 45 sec cooldown, a big AM cost, it is tier 5/6 (ship/tech) while Subverter is tier 5 and comes out of the box with shield disruption, which costs half the AM and has a 4 or 6(?) sec cooldown.
Conclusion: Shield disruption is a very good tool. It may not be as awesome as a flat 40% in many cases, but it doesn't stray far. This argument is just wrong, sorry. Do the maths yourself, you'll see the effectiveness of shield disruption is very close to designate target, particularly if you count in the research tier difference. Much more fluid (not a 40% always), but sometimes less, sometimes more, most of the time - comparable and much more spammable.
People don't get subverters nowadays (and tend to think they are shit) because they always used them for the Distortion Field (stun) that had been nerfed a bit too badly. I don't like how that particular ability works - it is powerful in that it can turn off godzillions of HCs, but it is the closest thing to a Kamikaze attack one can find in this game. Once the stun is over (or if the enemy has illums, or basically in any situation where your stun doesn't affect ALL the enemy ships), the subverter is in the deepest shit you can throw your ship into, beside having it roundhouse kicked by Chuck Norris. I personally believe that it should jump back to where it cast the Distortion Field.
I usually get a handful of subverters in late game, and mainly for the shield disruption - you must have never seen how much faster a Kol goes down when a subverter infects him with this thing. It is very spammable, a great weapon against those tough caps and HCs. A few subverters will keep dozens of HCs debuffed over a long fight. A perfect weapon against Advent, where a cap ship can have up to 85% shield mitigation and reducing that by 10% means increasing the damage by 66%!!!A perfect synergy with all phase missile weapons.
I have zero idea how anyone with a little imagination (or experience as Vasari) could not perceive the POWAH® of this ability.
Oh and this:
I never raised this issue because I thought offensive support cruisers might have been purposefully unable to target starbases, cause it would be OP (that a single support cruiser can effectively take away 30% of a starbase's health for 60 seconds with one use of an ability). I noticed Subverters can't, but it made some sense, so I didn't call a thread about it. LFs don't target caps with their abilities and it does make sense - I think cobalts disabling capital ships would be total bullshit.
If cielo can, however, it is clearly a bug and needs to be fixed.
Subverters WOULD help a LOT against starbases, and if Cielo can designate SBs, so should subverters be able to disrupt their shields.
well, just a slight buff to the Subverters, or a SIGNIFICANTLY longer range on the TeleportDisable ability (it should at least outrange the Cielo's Designate Target/Guardian's Repulse (<-Repulse MUST BE OUTRANGED by TeleportDisable). Also, I think that the Disrupt Shields ability should also have a longer range.
Also, N3rull, if you note post #12, I mention that it's possible that the Devs forgot to make Disrupt Shields target SBs/Structures because Entrenchment was the 1st thing where Structures could have shields 'bestowed' upon them (the SoaGE mod gives the SW versions of structures shields).
You said the may have forgotten, but before that you've said a heap of stuff I felt an urge to comment.
Agreed that either LF abilities or the subverter's distortion field should outrange repulse.
I don't mind it not outranging designate target really. Shield disruption might get a slightly better range tho.
The way it seems to be set up (at least in my head) is that you have guardians who have repulse, which nullifies the power of HCs. The vasari answer this with distortion field, in which the subverter enters phase space where repulsion has no effect so it can get in close and disable the entire(or most of) battle ball. The advent answer to that is perserverance, which prevents 1 ship at a time from being disabled, allowing repulsion to remain active to protect the disabled fleet from HCs. This is how i thought it was supposed to work.
that makes sense. but then what the hell is the tec supposed to do about repulse? i know, that's not what the thread was about, but still...
TEC have sabotage reactoron their LFs, which, unlike interference on skirmishers, disables abilities when they are activated, and damages the unit that activated them. Thats 1 thing thats supposed to work against them (but unfortunately again the repulsion range is too much). Also LRMs are one of very few ships that outrange repulse, ideally using lrms in conjunction with designate target is another thing that should work fairly well, but often a second guardian comes along and repulses the lrms out of range of the first while a mothership restores its shields. Ive seen this happen many many times. Another thing bad about repulse is the fact that in order for ships to move they must move forward, making it impossible for them to go anywhere if they are facing the guardians. Ships only rotate when changing attack targets, so against a tightly formed Advent battle ball in the center of repulse, your ships are stuck until the repulsion goes down. Try and pull them back and theyll fruitlessly try and accelerate forward to turn around. This retarded behavior is another reason repulse is so powerful. Ive stated before that I think whn ships are set to hold position and told to move within their attack range they should ROTATE to face that position, not move to it. This way you can face your ships to opponent (or turn away from repulse) and not waste precious time having your ships rotate once the battle has begun.
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