edit: Quote tags aren't working again.

we're 3 months in, and while demigod is tons of fun to play, it's still essentially broken.  Custom games work good (though in my experience getting a 5v5 can still be difficult), yet patheon and skirmish while perhaps not 'broken', certainly aren't working completely, the ladder is totally bogus, achievements just barely started working (or are they?) favor points were broken until yesterday.

I agree with you that these items should work and don't, Pantheon and Skirmish in particular. However, I feel Demigod is far from broken in any stretch of the imagination. It was Broken when it launched until Stardock fixed the connectivity issues; and make no mistake, those issues have been fixed. The issues that are persisting now are mostly behind the scenes issues - such as database errors with statistic collection - that have proven to be more complicated than originally thought as stated in Frogboy's journals. While Pantheon and Skirmish do work they're not entirely reliable, however Custom Games work without any issues. The use of Custom Game as the primary method for playing online, however, brings social interaction issues - Pre-mades VS Randoms for example, which if Pantheon was the main method of play wouldn't be as major an issue as it is now - to people's attention. Other problems, like the lack of the larger scale games, are result of other problems that were understandably overlooked. The lack of 5v5 games, for example, is a result of the upload speed the average user playing Demigod seems to have. I can only play 4v4 if every person is Australian based and I can connect to them with a time of less than 100ms due to my own upload speed, for example. This can hardly be placed at the feet of the developers, who have already optimised the netcode to reduce the bandwidth requirements by a third. I understand that these features were listed "on the box" and don't work as intended, however it's not like we're being kept in the dark here and fed on bullshit. We're being informed when the situation changes, and clearly work is being done. Calling the game broken sounds like an extreme over-exaggeration of several smaller issues. They're annoying, however the game can still be enjoyed.

We have 8 demigods, it's debateable, but i'd say each demigod realistically has two builds, so you might say there are 16 demigods. Demigod is in a good position because it's only real competition is dota, a mod of a 6-ish year old game. Yet, best case scenario, league of legends ships in september, two months away, and last time i check their website, they had 21 heroes revealed, and room to reveal 7 more (presumably before or at launch)

Actually, I wouldn't say there are 16 Demigods. I'd say there are 8 Demigods each with two builds; variations on the unique play style of each Demigod. Unlike DotA, which has over 90 different Heroes, each Demigod has much more flexibility. The 90+ Heroes of DotA, for example, are merely slight variations on common themes or roles. This has already been discussed at length in multiple threads, and I don't feel the need to cover it all again. The basic outcome from those discussions: More Demigods would be nice, two are already on the way, however we don't want too many as to dilute the fairly good balance present in Demigod or give less significane to each Demigod.

In terms of the "Us VS Them" mentality of Demigod VS LoL or DotA, I'll have to go back to what Frogboy said; why does this mentality exist? If Demigod was the only game ever released of this sub-genre, it would grow stale. More releases of this sub-genre mean more development of the core ideas and growth; innovation of gameplay mechanics. You need only look at some of the Map ideas floating around in the suggestions sub-forum to get an idea of how a few minds are already looking to change the way Demigod flows. There are thousands of FPS's on the market, and yet I don't ready about "Crysis: Warhead will be the death of Quake: Live". It's a pointless argument. League of Legends, as you used in your example, appears to be trying to capture the DotA players more than forge it's own player base as Demigod has done. From the roster of heroes to the very art style of the game, League of Legends screams "DotA" and I feel this will be the games weakest element. Yet, if it's still fun, I'll still play it. Demigod, however, doesn't scream 'WE DOTA'. Demigod is it's own beast and will have it's own player base. Demigod is inherently slower and has a much less focus on the 'whack-a-mole' style gameplay that persists in DotA at a competitive level. 

The first serious competition is drawing closer, and if demigod is going to solidify it's niche in the market, i feel as though they must do the following things to prove to community members the game has the legs of dota.

Most people aren't here to play DotA; they're here to play Demigod. Trying to compare Demigod to DotA at every turn is a flawed idea; DotA rides off the back of Warcraft 3 much in the same way that the original mod of Counter-Strike rode on the back Half-Life - these games were massive releases which sold millions of copies. Demigod has no such back to ride off. DotA had 'legs' because it's a rather old mod - publically released in early 2003 if memory serves me - which has a dedicated fan base because of it's age. Demigod is 3 months old.


-patheon and skirmish working perfectly
-clan support
-multi player finding system - you and 2 buddies can search for another team of 3 to play, etc
-minimum of 1 new demigod (in reality i think they community demands 2) - with some indication of further demigods in the works
-potentially 1 new map, and possibly some new items

Judging from your list 'requirements' I can only assume you don't keep up with Frogboy's journals. Ever feature you've listed is on the way. 2 new Demigods are in the works - free, of course - and a new micro-expansion - also free - called Clan Wars is going to be released adding in all the clan support and Team Matchmaking. Additional features for Impulse are also in the works to add things like VOIP and a far more robust Friends system. Demigod is a 'work in a progress' rather than the paid Beta people like to label it as - things are going to be added and changed for quite a while. We're 3 months into the game and already the amount of support we've seen trumps some of the support other games will receive in their entire life cycle.


I really am having fun playing demigod, it's a blast, but ill be honest, in it's current state, it isn't a complete game.  The nuts and bolts are there, but the polish isnt.  I think most community members would agree. I also think most community members will admit they see great potential in demigod and would like to see it flourish, i know i do. I feel like it's so close, but also these next two month will either make or break the game long term, and ill be honest, i'd like to have it around long term. Thoughts? comments?

I'd just like to point out that you should get over to the Journal's section of the Demigod forum and read up on Frogboy's posts more often.

All I can do is echo what you've said.

It sums up my feeling about the game nicely.  Though there is a part of me that is frustrated that I payed for this game in a broken state, and although its gotten better, its still pretty bad in some aspects.  Saying its not perfect is an understatement.  And sad to say, but you don't spend $50 for a 'work in progress'.  I bought a game.  Not this beta, wip, or whatever you wanna call it.

Love it, but I have also not been more frustrated with a game (or any program) ever.  More crashes, restarts (both program and comp), and errors than any other program I've ever worked with.

Labelling the game at launch as 'Broken' is an honest assessment and I agree. It was simply broken; it didn't work. Labelling the game now, 3 months later, as 'Broken' isn't. The game does work. The stats tracking doesn't function properly, or at least it doesn't for me, and several of the games match-making features don't function reliably - although they do work from time to time. However, when I want to actually play Demigod, I can join a Custom Game and begin playing in less than 10 minutes, safe in the knowledge that it will work. This doesn't equate to a broken game, in my opinion.

I'll have to disagree with this as well I'm afraid. Match making is a bad trend - a way to dumb down the process of finding games. Now, to be fair, it does works great - as long as your in the country that the majority of people who play the game are in. I'm not one of these people. Match making - on any game, with the exception of CoD:WaW for some reason - dumps me into a lag fest of a game filled with American players. In most strategy games, you'll often find Custom Games to be where most games are found and enjoyed because this allows for, well, a customised experience. I can play with other Australian gamers, with nice pings, and the Americans don't have a laggy player weighing their team down. While Pantheon is a great idea, I agree that is rather non-functional at the moment.

Now you're making sense and putting forward a good point. I agree, Demigod's problems might cause problems, however considering how badly this game got slammed at release and yet there is still respectable number of players enjoying the game, I don't think it's going to materialise the way you're predicting. Will League of Legends 'kill' Demigod if Demigod remains the same and League of Legends' has a flawless launch? Hardly. Personally, I think the core DotA players are going to strangle League of Legends until it ends up a mess of a game with a very unwelcoming community, because League of Legends is aiming directly for them - it's not trying to forge itself a new identity, as Demigod has tried to do, it's trying to steal DotA's. I think this fact alone will ensure there will be Demigod players and there will be League of Legend players, and there will be those who play both because they enjoy the games. And frankly, playing a game that looks like it aimed at 5 year olds really isn't something I, personally, would look forward to.

Personally, apart from the connectivity issues which have all been cleared up, I have experienced zero crashes. Zero. There seems to be a few people having issues, however I think basically calling this game the most buggy piece of code ever constructed by the hands of man a massive, massive, overstatement. I understand you might be having issues, however the forums are not filled with the exact number of people who purchased the game crying out in unison about their games crashing. It's a selective problem, and I believe Frogboy already commented on it, and to be perfectly frank I don't see too many organised threads about people attempting to solve the issue, but there are a lot of them complaining about it telling the Developers to "fix it, now".

Zehdon - let me just say I'm glad we can actually have a real discussion here.  I haven't posted on forums much in recent years because most people aren't mature enought to have a real discussion.  Im glad we can talk

when i call demigod broken, i do so because all the intended features (even launch features) are still not working.  Some not working well, some not at all.  For me this constitutes the term 'broken' yet, perhaps a better term may be 'incomplete' because yes, i am enjoying playing custom games at the moment.  Still, some aspect do feel broken to me.  I've been unable to play a 5v5 that wasn't lag cess pool, and crashes are still all to frequent (I personally don't crash as much, but my friends often do).  Also, often enough to be annoying, i've experienced random drops of friends in games, for no apparant reason.  These are simply things I just don't expect in a complete game.

Im all for having custom games as an option, yet i almost always play demigod with friends, and currently we have 2 options.  State our game is a 'premade' and rarely get it running because no one else wants to play against a premade.  Or not state it's a premade and ultimate usually have an advantage.  I was quite partial to the system on warcraft 3 myself, where me battle.net simply found another team of three (or whatever the number may be) and match us up.  Though i agree with you, about customizing your experience.  Battle.net did great at finding us matches, but poorly at finding a 'suitable' match (based on skill).  In the end, it would be nice to have both options.

i hope your right, and i agree with you, demigod has been developing a fan base despite these problems, so here's hoping to a long future.  And i agree, the dota community as a whole is perhaps the worst online community i've ever experienced.  So far demigod seems to be above that, here's hoping it stays that way.

In my experience, i will have to disagree with you.  Again, i do really enjoy demigod, but it is the most unstable game i've experienced to date, albiet it has been getting steadily better, in my experience, even tonight, it still has to many 'bugs' for me to consider 'fixed'.  But perhaps that's just me and my friends?

I actually enjoyed reading the discussion.

I can conceed to that definition.  Demigod isn't broken, yet isn't optimal yet.  So we can agree it's somewhere in the imperfect category, or perhaps incomplete as of today?

Certainly i can understand if a bottleneck is upon a player's side.  My follow up questions would be as follows.  First I might question Gas Powered or Stardock concerning their due dilligence regarding what system capabilities (or connectivity capabilities) their users will ultimately have.  I would think such research would be pivitol to a game maker, say for example regarding system specs.  If you didn't know what specs were going to held by the average consumer at the time frame you planned to release your game, you might release a game to demanding for current systems, or to date.  This is by no means a new idea, yet i'd think such items concerning the average users internet connectivity would naturally be researched near the time of conception for the title.  It does seem short-sighted to include 5v5 in the game, if ultimately people can't use it.  unless.... 1. they did it to allow 'growing room' for the game.  or 2.  5v5 was only intended for LANs.  Yet it seems like perhaps user upload speeds was an oversight? or an under-estimation?

If a host crash, crashes the game for all (which i've experienced), then you bring up a good, point, it does make it appear more widespread than it is.  Still a bug of this nature 3 months in is a little troubling to me, since i've encounted it often enough to tax upon the experience

I agree, team play should have been 'out of box', and i guess some of my frustration stems from the fact that it's a cruicial item, to me, but as you state and i agree, to the game at large.  I am excited for the clan support, and hopefully it will be part of it.  Demigod is definatley a game i play 95% of the time with friends.  A friend recommended, and I in turn recommended it to friends.  Perhaps Im in the minority, yet i'd think not, as games of this nature are undoubtedly funner to play with people you know.

haha, i have no kind words about the dota community, or the battle.net community in general =D

Haha, seems you have more experience with games, though now that you mention it i remember a 'bug' in prince of persia warrior within that essential put me in an 'insolvable' room because the bug didn't trigger an event that broke a wall needed to pass through to the next area.  Of course hours later, i finnally consulted a hint guide (something i didn't want to do) and found out that it was too late, because my save didn't take me back early enough, and would have to restart the game.... never did =D.  Demigod isn't as bad as that, but it is frustrating when sometimes you wonder if game makers in the pc market figure they can kick their product out early, and patch it later.  Which probably isn't the case with the crew at stardock from what i've read by frog boy, yet frustrating all the same.