The Erebus Nerf: More specifically, their justification for nerfing them. It's old news, and I got banned from the forums because I don't have the priviledge of criticizing GPG/Stardock, but I came back to check on the status of clan wars. Some of the things I said were inexcusable, but man, I was INFURIATED at GPG/Stardock for that nerf.
I found this:
Really?
I mean, I've been reading the logs and some of the new nerfs were the ones that were actually needed. (I can't believe Heart of Life took that long!) The Erebus nerf however was just GPG caving in from pressure that was made up utter crap, being that Erebus was already beatable in many ways obviously outside the minds of some individuals. When balancing a game, you cater to strengths and weaknesses. Make their strengths stronger or weaknesses weaker. They nerfed his strength...(Which wasn't OP)
I haven't played in a while, so I don't know how Erebus does. They might have buffed him somewhere in the logs that I didn't catch. They might have publically apologized for it, I have no idea. They might have denounced me publically. He wasn't that tough to beat to begin with though, so I can't imagine him being any harder, outside of more people from the community being better. I probably won't play at all until clan wars is implemented. But it's not really the nerf that pissed me off, more specifically the basis for it. I.e. three threads that had a lot of response and controversy, mixed support, but the majority of support coming from inexperienced players. I hope they learned their lesson from balancing the game in that way.
Please tell me they did Frogboy...
Uhm... I play Erebus and I think he is absoluetely fine, he was pretty good first: 900 dmg plus 900 healed, plus armor reduction for another (around)200-600 dmg AND slow, for a low mana cost.. yeah that also made none-bite build really bad.
the vamp is alot like the rook as far as i can tell, if u are a GOOD player who fully understands the game he can be a force, but if u are a new player or learning a new demigod they are very easy to kill
Erebus remains one of the strongest DG's, and Bite remains one of the most potent abilities of any DG. So... I'd say that the nerf was not out of bounds.
By the way, can't help but point out how you assume that changes you wanted but didn't get are needed and required, but changes you got but didn't want are just the Man caving in to pressure.
ere pretty much sucks you can't play him as a assinin at all and the surrposide boite incresing dmg increases it by a piddly amount switching to ice form on tb does more dmg
erebus has no attack buff skills there is bite which doesn't do much mist isn't all too effetive batswarm is brilliant at runing away ans stun spam has a huge cast time so it can be interupted by any dude who knows how to interupt
i think ere is the weakest dude and there is only one build that works well and that is minion
the best demi is oak then ub then reg then rook then proberly tb then sedna then qot then ere
i found that this is around about the order of the demis
oak has brilliant minion build and brilliant support and assasin builds
ub is best assasin and pretty good support
reg is brilliant assasin build and is a natural support
rook is sheer pwnage earily game and towers are best for support
tb has loads of aoes and a pretty powerful direct attack not to mention stun and interupt attacks
sedna has a good assasin build a good support build and a good minion build
qot has a good minion build and a good support
ere has a brilliant minion build and a alright support build and a absolutely shit assasin build
Erebus needed a nerfing and is just fine now. They have all the statistics so they are in a much better position to judge what needed nerfing and what didn't.
If the player behind Erebus didn't know what he was doing, then he wasnt that tough. With someone that knew what they were doing, he dominated pre-nerf. They shouldn't balance the toon around people that don't know how to play Erebus.
That's easy, just look at the boards. Very few people, other than you and you don't play, are complaining about Erebus being underpowered. So the "nerf" doesn't seem to have many people in an uproar. And the Pantheon stats indicate that he is still a top dawg.
Me too. They did a good job with the nerf to bring him more inline with the other DGs. The game is amazingly balanced. The HoL nerf and the minion despawn bring Oak and the generals more in-line too.
What an ego. My advice is to go outside and enjoy the summer. You clearly have your ego way too wrapped up in a game that you do not play. And guess what, no one cares.
All of this is irrelevent though. It's the fact that they nerfed him because a bunch of people whined, the majority of which were inexperienced and didn't know how to counter play. A few of them acting as self-proclaimed Erebus players honorably sacrificing their own demigod for the sake of balance, didn't really know what the balance was. One response says he's the strongest, and the next says hes the weakest. All of this is just opinion based on experience. I don't care for erebus anymore. I'm just reviving the argument that GPG/Stardock shouldn't be basing balance upon a bunch of forum opinions that they can't gauge.
Why are you assuming that? Devs do listen to people on the boards but they don't implement everything everybody says. Sometimes they see things for what they really are ALL ON THEIR OWN.
Obviously you know everything about demigod and are the only one that can conceive a nerf because you simply are the best!
Honestly, I could respond to all of your arrogant posts and proclaim you wrong on every one, but I won't, because like I said that isn't the basis of this topic. It's simply people like you saying you know who needs to be nerfed and who doesn't based simply on who you play and lose to. They didn't base it on any statistics, or at least any statistics that are RELEVENT to demigod balance. Post count in a forum thread calling for a nerf for one, is NOT a statistic.
Those were RETARDEDLY OP and BLATANTLY obvious though. The latter was a bug. You can compare the HoL to all of the other items, weigh their costs, and easily conclude it was overpowered. It's an easy call to make because you have something to compare it to. Erebus you don't have anything to compare it to, because there is no solid end-game. Some people posted their experience saying he's underpowered (I thought he was, but it's very likely I never played a good Erebus) who have backgrounds in playing team games. Some people came from random teams in pantheon/custom games, and thought he was overpowered simply because they got owned by a single person.
In all of these scenarios, theres no way to compare SKILL other than by who wins and who loses. Then people try to compare BALANCE instead as an excuse for a win/loss. It's really hard to determine what is an equally-skilled game, even with arranged teams, or even CLANS. But they disregarded all of this and went ahead and nerfed him to satisfy a few posters who they knew NOTHING about, and only a MONTH into the game's release. A bunch of beta players can say it was different; beta was much longer, but post-release and beta had one thing in common: It isn't easy to gauge a player's skill, let alone a team's skill regardless.
I want to avoid any discussion over the SPECIFIC bite nerf, and just the basis behind it. Sound cool? I deleted my arguments in my previous post, as this thread will de-rail quickly.
Edit:
Because there were several behemoth-sized threads saying his bite was overpowered. (The only discussion of that size was based on erebus) A week later after it died down, theres an update with a few connectivity issues, a few features added/fixed, and at the bottom by itself, the ONLY demigod balance change in the update and one of the only demigod balances yet to be made after release, erebus's bite takes a direct nerf. They didn't nerf erebus, they didn't tweak his bite, they almost literally took someone's suggestion for how to fix it and just took an axe and cleaved it apart.
If I missed the official conversation about this, then do feel free to correct me but I've never seen an official word regarding 'what' they based it on. I know several players simply assumed it was based on forum noise (and I could see that being the prompt for them to examine the ability closely) but from where I'm standing, the reality is that we have no idea what statistics GPG is looking at.
Back when this was a big deal, everyone here was debating the change as it related to Pantheon standings which I thought was ridiculous. Until we get a word from someone who's actually worked on a 'real' balance team that can highlight the methodolgy, this conversation isn't going to go much further than vague rants and justifications.
First off, How could you possibly know what GPG thought?
You are some omnipotent demigod(pun very much intended) who knows exactly what GPG really wanted to do and not?
Second, IF you had been playing the game for a bit longer, you would have known that erebus was quite an underdog in the late stages of the beta and as such, GPG went ahead with some (overly)drastic changes in order to make sure he wasnt for realease(Changes that vere never even tested during beta!), as it turned out they overdid it and as such toned him down a bit it approx 2 weeks after release.
And stop calling people arrogant in a thread created by you only so you can be arrogant over yourself.
People see what they want to see, and when you saw the bite nerf you could nothing but think for onc second! that it wasnt something GPG had thought would be needed in time anyway,
NO, you had to see it as if it was EXACTLY AS YOU THOUGHT IT WAS.
Now who is the arrogant one?
@sakhari
A fair minded post. I guess I'm guilty of making assumptions within my own convenience, but then you have to subtract what they couldn't base it off of. I mean, we'll never know what they DID base it off of. Frogboy usually brings up all of the possible updates in his posts, but he didn't mention erebus once.
It's pretty possibly and very likely they looked at Erebus based on all of the complaints. What are they going to examine? They didn't conceive an imbalance before they released demigod, while this is a pretty shoddy argument, the only way they can actually look for a nerf is by trends of usage. Pantheon statistics are BS, and their best testers are the players themselves, and the nerf came right out of the blue.
IF you didn't assume I didn't know, I DID know that they buffed erebus on release. And there has been no evidence his bite was overpowered since, other than what a bunch of people thought. Whether or not they agreed or disagreed, skill wasn't factored into any of it.
More assumptions on your part.
No, once again YOU ASSUME they had no evidence. read my post again, they overbuffed him before release on purpose, it was obvious to all betatesters so why it wasnt to you is your problem, nothing to go creating a whinethread about.
Assumptions based on facts. Since you seem to know better (obviously), why don't you suggest the next most plausible option for GPG to make this nerf?
You accuse me of being arrogant and assuming what GPG thought, only to suggest you knew what they thought? Hypocrite.
Based on what's at our disposal, it's one of the few assumptions that can be made without GPG telling us themselves. Yeah, now you're assuming that they nerfed him because of the buff. You could say it was 'obvious' because of that, I could say it was obvious because ofthe whine threads started and the nerf came immediately after. You don't have to be a hypocrite, man.
Called irony I belive
Funny how you saw the flaw in others but demigod forbid you saw it in yourself.
So you say the only reason Bite was nerfed was because inexperienced players complained about it and that it wasn't based on any statistics. Then you say the best testers are the players themselves. So which is it? The players saw that Bite was overpowered and made threads about it. It was obvious based on the number of posts made that something was going to happen.
I've already acknowledged they're assumptions. God FORBID you ignore your own assumptions and continue the hypocrisy.
Exactly. My point. Based on that logic, I could start a thread about any demigod i want, find a few people who agree, and spear-head it to oblivion.
I've played erebus every game for the last hundreds of games and feel the nerf was justified and that I am still a fighting force.
It is foolish to assume that GPG did it because some random noob players said Erebus was op. The nerfed him because he was op on all skill levels and players who had been around since day 1 of the beta and provided a lot of useful balance feedback during beta agreed that Erebus needed some nerf.
Go ahead, do it!
and stop whining here.
Never said I knew better. I personally could care less whether or not ANY demigod is OP or not. I just play the game and enjoy it for what it is.
Unlike yourself, I'm not going to make any assumptions on why they CHANGED Erebus. It's useless because we would only speculate for eternity unless we got a direct answer from GPG (which is what I'm sure you're looking for in this thread).
It's true! Sly is a force.
Except on Erebus nerf threads, people actually had good reasons as to why it was overpowered. The only counter people who didn't think it was overpowered, like yourself, could come up with is "no it's not, l2p."
If you make an thread about how, say, towers are overpowered, a large number of people would be able to prove you wrong and give counter strategies.
dead horse is dead.
the one piece of factual information we do have is that the previous version of Bite was far out of line with other abilities in terms of its mana efficiency. post-adjustment it is now more properly in line with the mana efficiency of other abilities in the game. i really think the explanation is that simple.
If Erebus was nerfed based solely on complaints then why wasn't there a slew of other nerfs? Spit, Towers, Bramble Shield, et al. were all complained about (some still are) and no nerfs were issued.
So, why was it that Erebus was nerfed?
Anyways, whatever the reason they nerfed Erebus for doesn't matter because Erebus is fine as he is now.
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