So, in order to talk about hybrid Erebus build I've been using lately, I think we need to know what the non hybrid is. My general plan with Erebus by level 10 is 3 ranks in bite, 4 ranks in mass charm, 2 ranks in bat swarm, 1 point in poisoned blood. (Level 11 gets last point of bite). This is the 'assassin' build for Erebus, and I think it is a pretty good one. However, I've noticed lately that a bit of minion support makes you substantially longer of lifespan, requires less money in mana production, and really helps you push and defend.
So, this is a Bite/Minion hybrid build:
The biggest thing we miss here is the Mass Charm which I love so dearly. MC is hard on mana, but good for getting ganks (Nothing quite like swarm + charm). What we gain however is gobs of survivability, and a 10 Minion army doing generally about 40 damage a hit (after armor).
Note that I do not itemize any minion based effects. I value hauberk of life slightly more than Nimoths with this build, but that is about the only major difference.
Favor item is still blood of the fallen, and I get monks right out.
A few other things to note:
i like this build. i've used something very similar, though i'm not an expert on Erebus so maybe it was shit and i didnt know it. still i've played with something like this and it worked well. i approve.
Lose Mist Brah
lol funny
I've been using something very similar, with good results. I don't use mist though. I need to update my Erebus guide...
I use a similar build. Mist depends on opposistion.
Ive done a similar build like this a lot....I think the name should be True General Erebrus...Since you rely heavily on your troops. You learn to micro and you have erebrus stick back to just hang out and you let minions harass enemy. Its decent build, very much like a support build IMO since his strength is taking out towers and controlling lanes, but he loses a lot of hero killing potential with this build. Very strong early game also .
I wouldn't say True General Erebus, since you'll actually start to focus on your more assassin like abilities in the later half of your build, simply because minions have trouble keeping up after that point. A True General Erebus would focus more on Mist and Mass Charm. Then again, a true general version of Erebus would probably suck.
I would generally agree that mist isn't a 'must have' and is opposition dependant. Early on at least. However late on in the game, mist is a valuable tool to help survive many encounters you wouldn't otherwise... for instance when batswarm is still on cooldown. I really think of it as an insurance policy.
I tend to max bite, have 2 points in Bat Swarm and go full minion build with Erebus. I find that both Mist and Mass Charm are situational. If you have a full army, Bite is usually enough to slow your opponent down enough for them to finish off unless the opposing DG is smart enough to turn tail before you even reach them. I try to get my minions to engage the DG first then bat swarm in and bite or teleport ambush and bite.
Mist is used to cancel Mark of the Betrayer and can also be used to farm creeps when you need nightwalkers. Bat Swarm often doesn't spawn nightwalkers if it kills them outright so I often only used Bat Swarm against creeps if I already have a full complement of nightwalkers.
Mass Charm is used to interrupt abilities and stun minions and creeps. I rarely put more than one point in Mass Charm and usually only start after the first time someone tries to teleport away.
I've been using Blood of the Fallen less and less. Instead I buy banded armor. This lets me use Amulet of Teleportation for large maps and Cloak of Night or Ring of Divine Might in other situations. This provides certain tactical advantages that raw hp won't provide.
That is an interesting approach. I've been playing alot of "assassin" erebus and I'm curious as to how a minion build works. What items do you tend to buy with that build, do you bother with items that buff up your minions? Also do you tend to buy idol minion archers/minotaurs and not resell the idol, if so at what point do you usually get them?
Minions are weak without minion buffing items. So I usually end up with Hauberk of Life, Platemail of the Crusader, Theurgist's Cap and Gloves of Fell-Darkur. Last slot varies depending on how the game is going, usually Vlemish Faceguard or Boots of Speed. Cost about 20k to get all the gear and idols.
I used to get monk idol off the bat but now I usually get some cheap items first and save up 900 or 1800 gold before buying idols. Often I can finish the game with just rank 1 idols. I usually get monk idol then Hauberk of Life and / or Vlemish Faceguard before I get archers and minotaurs. After getting one of each rank 1 idol I go back to buying items. I don't resell idols unless I'm upgrading and usually I upgrade priest idol first, then archers then minotaurs.
I really don't think focusing on minion pumping items is worth much. It makes items like the gloves look a bit better, but getting things like platemail of the crusader is sacrificing too much just to make your little guys a little stronger.
With the gear I listed, it takes approximately 9 seconds for Fire Nova 3 + Circle of Flame 4 to kill fully buffed Nightwalkers. All other minions take longer to kill because they have higher base hp. In that time, your full army will dish out 8.1k damage before any armor mitigation. TB normally doesn't stack armor and even if they did, Bite would negate a good chunk. The 650 hp from armor lets your minions survive for 5 additional seconds which makes a huge difference.
The thing is though, that During that ponit your army will likely deal little to no damage, because after tb hits both of those abilities, he will simply move away, and minions without ranged attacks do not hit moving targets.
Alternatively, since you went with minion pumps, if he just harrasses you with 1000 hit point fireballs, you will have less to defend yourself with. Similarly, if he were to Frost nova your minions for 10 seconds, and then pile drive you, those nightwalkers are also doing not a whole lot.
Like I said, I think choosing a few items that ALSO give good buffs to your minions isn't too bad, but making it the prime reason to pick up something is likely going to get you in trouble.
I don't get mist either. I'm all about bite, swarm, coven, sleep, and blood. Sleep is a good interrupt for potions/tp's early on, but it needs more than one point to be useful for anything else. I basically consider myself the guy that "snags" the enemy demigod so the rest of us can munch on him. Bat swarm+bite to slow him down enough to be caught in the sleep animation, then sleep. Wow, first he was slowed, then he was asleep for 1-2 seconds. Now another bite for more slow. By now my teammates have caught up on UB is munching away.
I use cape of the night too. Great for catching people who are somewhat close for the bite (it doesn't use mana so I don't have to worry about bat swarm taking up too much to be able to bite). Also, catches them off guard early on when people don't expect you to have a tp and 100 hp is more significant. Finally, I don't feel like I need mist because now I have two tp's to get me out of bad situations.
I actually posted in the general threads that Erebus's minions were rubbish. I decided to play a few games with a minion build with him and I have to say I am wrong. He is a very good minion based general.
I generally drop Mist and Mass Charm.
Bite is a good skill with minions as it can slow your opponent down so they can keep up.
Most probably my favourite general now, very viable with minion/hybrid type build. Killing power and survivability.
Hmm. It isn't a bad argument, and I do admit that the point in mist is the one I'm least sure of. I may consider a point of charm or s'more regen. At the very least mist can be vital against certain match ups (Reg, Beast) but obviously that is different than it being part of the 'build'.
My knee jerk reaction is to say 'but I've used mist late game to shake up the 3v3 math, and it has been effective' but perhaps something else would have been more effective. Worth trying out at least.
Anybody having success with a hybrid build, and not taking ANY points in improved conversion aura?
I concur with the other Erebus players. Drop Mist and Mass Charm. Erebus is a force to be reckoned with as a General build w/ bite and swarm. Point distribution needs to be changed up slightly depending on the demigods you are playing, and a point in mist mid to late game can be effective to avoid snipes and hammer slams, however shouldn't always be picked up.
Very fun build, very versitile. Definitely my favorite Demigod and build to play. Make sure you are putting money into priests and (sometimes) siege minions... they up damage and provide some healing power to you and your troops.
Zechnophobe: I usually put at least two points into improved conversion aura, as a TB, Rook hammer slam, or other AoE Demigod can wipe out your army pretty quickly. You appreciate it when you need to restock minions fast. I think your point in mist is good if that is your play style, however I tend to wait until around level 13/14 to pick it up (if the game lasts that long). As a last note, mist is never, ever, EVER to be used as an offense tool. The mana/damage ratio is terrible and any decent player will just side step it. Only use it for survivability.
You may consider amulet of speed. Early game, it will save you before you have bat swarm. Late game, it will keep you near the speed of Sedna/Beast. I'm sure many will argue with me on this point, but I believe the swift amulet is one of the few favor items that provide a boost beyond early game.
Zygwen: I think you have an interesting style with the minion buffs. I would actually like to see it in play some time. The only thing I have to say here is that you are buffing minions that can be replaced with ease. Assuming you get conversion aura to level 2 or 3, you can replace your entire army in seconds. I prefer to stack health. Minions tend to get caught up around corners, hit enemy mobs, and otherwise have a terrible time positioning themselves to attack. Having high health allows Erebus to stay in the fight long enough for the damage of the minions to matter. Interesting strategy though, I am going to have to research the minion buff items a bit.
Erebus already moves faster than sedna, until she gets rank two in inner grace. I'm not too worried about that. If I need to burst speed to run away or chase, I'll just buy a wand of speed.
And don't get me wrong, mist form is ONLY as defensive meneuvre, I never get it with the intention of putting the hurt on people.
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