Read the full Torch Bearer Hybrid Strategy Guide
Just Watch the Torch Bearer Hybrid Video
Discuss either of these
Courtesy of http://gamereplays.org/demigod
Enjoy!
good vid looking forward to versing ur TB!
Except for the item choice in the video, I agree on the build. I think it may be pretty much the only viable hybrid buid and playstyle.
Regarding the items (I haven't played a hybrid build yet, mostly fire but this applies):
Never really thought about not going Scaled. I guess I want to stay out there as long as possible (sometimes I could be level 5 or 6 until I go back). In which case I do need the extra mana by then, might be worth trying the +400 armour though. I'm a speed whore and I'm lazy so that's the reason why I go Anklet a lot, if I was really serious then I'd probably Staff of Renewal.
I'm just not a HoL player, I know its benefits and everyone is better off with it, I just don't like its effect on the game that's all, and that if you need to heal all the time I get the feeling you're doing something wrong to start with. Vlemish+Plenor is good early on, but Hungarling is ultimate in terms of using less and regen. Hungarling/Vlemish stacked with both Permafrost and Fire buff is only just enough, remembering you're using >3k mana instantly if you don't have the -35%. Not to mention -35% is an aura, so it's a good team thing if no one else has it.
The video is just one of many games (the video was actually recorded a couple of weeks ago ), in the guide you will see I suggested both Heart and Wand of Speed, it's up to people to tailor their own playstyle to the build. Take the base, and use whatever you're already comfortable with for best results.
Regarding Hungarling - just because the effect is not anywhere else doesn't mean it all that good (though your aura point stands). But it's still a very very expensive item.
-25% cast cost = +25% mana pool and +25% regen (on top of all other regen bonuses). Would you agree that it's worth 3.250 gold? Or rather would you pay 3.250 gold for an item that provides +25% mana and +25-40% mana regen aura.
Comparison of bonuses (did this to check it out myself). I'm assuming 20mps 9 mps from permafrost.Vlemish + Plenor vs Hungarling at level 202.625 mana (1.575+1.050) vs 1.987 mana (3.950+800)*25%+800 bonus (2187 with Ubreakable)80,1 mps (9+12,43+11+4)*(1+70%+50%) vs 73,9 mps (9+12,43+18)*(1+50%)*(1+25%) with Fire Mark61,9 mps vs 49,3 mps without Fire Mark
So Vlemish+Plenor is better mana bonus and regen rate than Hungarling period. It takes 1 more slot but costs half the price. Hungarling can get better the more mana items you stack, but I doubt it's viable to invest any more into mana items (though Hungarling would absoulutely rule on Inspirational Flame build). Biggest advantage of Vlemish+Plenor combo is you can get it early and partially. Once again, Aura point stands (the 4 mps aura of vlemish is not even close to competing - rough rating would be something like 1/5 the value).
EDIT: The actual mana regen and mana bonus on Hungarling will be different, the values given are the equivalent with the 25% ability cost reduction calculated in.
EDIT 2: found out the exact mana regen of Permafrost.
Thanks for the very interesting guide
I have a few questions... This is a really mana intensive build with pretty high cooldowns compared to fire TB. Would make for very serious glass cannon work. One of the things I like about fireTB is due to low mana requirements of the skills you can stack on health for great survivability. How do you work around these issues with your build?
As I'm really interested in this buld and already started all the calculations, let's look into this too
At base cooldownFrost Nova III - 1250 mana, 15s = 83 mpsRain of Ice IV - 1100 mana, 14s = 78,5 mpsDeep Freeze IV - 725 mana, 15s = 48 mpsFireball IV - 540 mana, 7s = 77 mps
Total = 287 mps.
Level 20 TB per this build, Vlemish + Plenor + Unbreakable(Something like Groffling Warplate, Nimoth Chest Armor, Plenor Battlecrown, Unbreakable Boots, Vlemish Faceguard, Wand of Speed + Favor for the full build, avoiding HoL)7375 mana + 80 mps regen
This would allow you 35 seconds of non stop casting in order to run your mana to 0. It would need 92 seconds to fully regenerate. Pretty decent if you ask me. Formula
Single volley of all spells = 3.615 mana. You can fire almost 3 full volleys before running out of mana. 10.275 single target damage in just above 30s...
around 300 dps ability damage
EDIT: total theoretical maximums:
Pure Fire TB = 248 mps, 350 dpsHybrid = 287 mps, 334 dps
Cool... Is Permafrost not a % rather 9MPS constant?
Again, there's very few games where I don't have Vlemish + Plenor early on, I just happened to sit around farming for so long I had a lot of gold. Or if an ally already has it it's a definite no no. I will get hungarling if I need the extra slot (i.e I can afford another tanking item). In a close game where you need to spend your gold to improve yourself as soon as you get it, Hungarling wouldn't feature.
What about with -15% with Staff of Renewal
I would never just have Hungarling either, it simply isn't enough. is it better to have Hungarling + Plenor or Hungarling + Vlemish? At what level does Hungarling + Plenor > Hungarling + Vlemish? In the video I actually got Hungarling quite early, I'm guessing that it's a bit better earlier on?
Edit: I assume that DPS is including Ring of Fire? Which is hit and miss, what's it like without it? In any case being 17DPS down with freeze/stun/slow.
Thanks for all that, I prefer just playing and not looking too deep into the figures (for a game like Demigod it's not vital ). Is there a chance you could look into the question I proposed at the end of the guide? Swapping out Permafrost for Fire Nova III, What's the MPS/DPS like in that case?
Maxxy - Generally I just try and avoid trouble for a long time. Ice TB does have some great negative effects which help reduce incoming damage. Using the range of your spells early on to stay an arms length away. By the time you're level 12-20 you should have enough gold to tank yourself up a bit, and you should be at least two levels ahead which also helps.
Great guide! I've been wanting to learn how to play TB. I've got a helpful suggestion:
Wouldn't a Magnus Rod trinket work reallly well with this build? It also has a great passive mana regen ability. Plus, the Staff of Renewal also reduces the cooldown of Magnus Rod. On maps like Cataract you would have a really low cooldown due to the cooldown flag.
thanks for posting, I enjoyed your accent (the unclaim bist is low on haychpee)
pretty sure any TB smart enough to buy HoL early would roll over you..should probly buy HoL early over boots/armor/mana helms etc
Straight 15% increase in both mana used (mps) and dps. Offcourse those are all theoretical maximums, in practice it would be really hard to achieve them, except maybe in a single burst.
True about Ring of Fire, but neither will deep freeze always hit for maximum. You will often need to use it as important instant interrupt instead of damage. Ring of Fire is 150dps itself.
Fire Nova III is 53 dps, 91,6 mps. It's very inneficient in terms of mana and also requires you to be in the middle of things. Don't think it has much synergy with the ranged nature of the hybrid.
BTW I'm not sure how the cooldown and casting time work, cant check atm. Maybe we should add the casting time to the cooldown which would reduce the dps and mps a bit.
Definitely Hungarling + Plenor, more mana + more regen. At level 20 base regen would be 12,43 + 9 (permafrost) + 18 Hungarling. That would give Plenor >28 mana per second increase, compared to 22,5 of Vlemish with Fire Mark. This is even before the effect of the -25% cost which would make the difference even bigger.
This is close to what I already do, except I would trade off one level of Frost Nova for Fire Nova, it will give me an extra spell to work with so I'm not such a slave to cooldowns.
this is what most people in this thread missed. its a GAMEPLAY video, showing you how to play TB. its not a guide on what items to get.
For sure, but that's part of the challenge. If you can stay aware you will never die so once you get to 15 or so HoL is less of an advantage.
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Emphasis added for better readibility
Besides, items and order you get them are a big part of any build. And the video was inended to showcase the build... We were just discussing pros and cons
wrong sorry. If you want to 1v1 or 2v2 ill prove you wrong..HoL stays viable until the end of the game.
Of course it's viable, but it's less effective because most Demigod are doing >500DPS. Also in a 1v1 HoL is absolutely essential, whereas a 3v3 or 4v4 it has less of an impact. It does however remain the best bang/buck item in the game.
You being a HoL hero is not my problem, it's a style of gameplay which will not be around much longer, nor is it very ingenious (oh wow look at my Shield/Bramble + HoL I'm so amazing). If Demigod actually had a competitive scene I was playing in you would rarely see me play without HoL because it really is a no brainer for any wannabe, but otherwise it's a load of garbage.
Not sure what you are trying to prove really... Go make another thread if you want to play soggy biscuit over HoL. It's been overpowered forever so I'm honestly dumbfounded as to why you're debating it, no where have I ever said not to get HoL if you want to be as strong as possible.
HOL will get nerfed 1.1.
You're talking shit? you played like a amateur.. and yes id still like to play you
Yes because getting All Father's Ring definitely implies that the game is serious... I wish I could take casual games as serious as you, must be a real thrill to beat someone 50-5 rather than 20-5.
Don't bother with him Ferminal. Not only is he a jerk to everyone on the boards, but I think he has the highest rage quit % I've seen.
Excellent guide Ferminal. I play a very similar build but in different order but I will definitely give this a try. + 1 Karma for the guide and the way you have dealt with that childish kid Foreshadowed. Some people have no manners.
ive never ragequit anything but pantheon because of 2v3
so yea, your comment is complete bullshit, id be happy to 1v1 or 2v2 you Zechnophobe
now he's entered the penis measuring contest stage in which he tries to challenge people to 1on1 games, under the principle that a victory in game gives him unlimited bragging rights and instant respect.
I AM THE MIGHTIER!!!
want to 1v1?
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