Rawrawrwrwarwraw.
Heal 1
Pounce 1
Healing Wind 1
Pounce 2
Healing Wind 2
Inner Grace 1
Pounce 3
Inner Grace 2
Inner Grace 3
Pounce 4
Blood of the Fallen, Monk Idol
Item list is pretty much just hit point/armor stacking + a vlemish faceguard at some point. Note that I only pick up the first point of heal, but I do get the Monk idol out the door. This build does have healing, but relies more on idol heals and regeneration. It is also significantly more aggressive than some sedna builds, as it maxes both pounce and inner grace by level 10.
Upgrade your monk idol at some point, and your priests should be healing for a good 700 to 1000 damage roughly every 7 seconds.
Cons: While I like the damage and healing of this build, you do not invest at all in silence, which I consider a useful skill in large combats. It may be the final point in pounce isn't as worth while as 1 in silence, but It is really hard to gauge.
As I haven't played much Sedna, I ask, does Healing Wind also affect Sedna herself?
Yup, and creeps. Though, the real benefit is getting Healing Wind II, and increasing the effectiveness of your priest minions. Obviously 24 HPs per second is a good perk, but the benefit of +10% HP per heal is significantly better.
confused by this build. why get just Heal 1? and why not get Silence 1?
Heals greater than one very quickly taper off in effectiveness. I think it is important to be able to do a burst heal effect on a teammate, but not worth the points to get 50%, then 33% boosts to that effect. I won't ignore the healing, but I think you get more bang for your buck as a character who can fight back.
As for silence, I did list it as a con of the build, and perhaps should sacrifice a point in pounce for it. I'll be completely honest that I just don't use silence well enough yet to know where to fit it in. I often overuse it, and run myself dry of mana super fast (Level 1 is mucho expensivo, especially at level 5).
Lastly, I do generally pick up the last ranks of heal post level 10. This is when you are often in the last stages of a game, and need to confront large groups of towers (rooks or otherwise) and need more immediate sustainability.
I like the ideas here. Gonna give it a try this evening.
if you play a high mana item build (probably stacking Vlemish+Plenor+Unbreakables for early game) you can definitely just spam Pounce and Heal without much difficulty, the occasional combat mana pot will be more than enough.
that level of mana allows you to basically think of Heal as being similar in certain ways to a passive health regen boost. a big one. 85/128/171/214 health per second by rank if you can cast it every 7 seconds.
not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with your build though, i havent tried it and it looks ok on first glance. just saying that except for surviving very focused burst damage attacks you can almost substitute mana for health with Sedna if you pick your items to be able to cast Heal every 7 seconds.
Well, my logic is that the priest minions heal based on a percentage of your maximum health. So I can gain a comparatively large passive healing amount, for myself, simply by having good priests and a high HP total. Then, I can focus my mana, and the money that would go into getting more of it, on more aggressive or utilitarian means.
Following from that, if I am getting more benefit from myself by having priests about, I might as well make my priests good ones (healing wind 2) so as to better heal my teammates as well. Those with high HP totals will recieve massive boon from priests, and those without will get minor boosts, but my level 1 heal is going to be a more mana efficient way to top them off.
A fair bit of this is theoretical, but I do know I have been successful of late with this build, though who knows, maybe my enemies just haven't been any good?
Either way, thanks for the comments, a little discussion always gets the strategic juices flowing.
I see too many flaws on this build, u are just changing heal for healing wind what for me have no sense at all, u need absolutely heal for 1v1, priests heal a lot less than the ability and may be they are healing creeps when u need it, with this build u cant stand a burst damage combat at all, u are going to run all the time and UB for example is going to rape u hard.
Healing wind is a pasive heal that have not effect at all in combat so why instead of heal?
U can do the same build with heal instead of healing wind and u are going to improve it a lot and u are going to do the same DPS with double of healing than now.
So what do u do when u are critical? wait and hope that the monks will heal u? too much risk for nothing, oh well, for healing wind
And why are u stacking heal/armour with a healer? u just need mana and some armour/heal but not a stacked heal/armour and some mana, this is for DGs that cant heal themselves and need a large pool of HP to stand on the fight.
U stack HP/armour because u cant be dependant of healing as a healer becouse u base it in priest that may heal or may be not... rolf.
U can be lvl 20 with 4k or 5k of hp with an armour of 30% and a almost infinite pool of mana and u are going to pounce and heal nonstop but if u cant outheal the dps is a matter of time to die or run and u havent a good burst DPS as sedna, u must stand, outheal and pounce to win a combat.
You underestimate healing wind. First of all, priests heal as much as or more than heal, depending on your hp. 24 hp/s is a huge amount of regeneration. As already pointed out, heal 1 would be 85 hp/s over time. The 24 hp/s is completely free and affects every allied demigod/unit around you. The boost healing wind 2 gives to priests lets them heal between 15% (monks) and 30% (high priests) of total hp. For 3500 hp this would be 525 hp or 1050 hp every 10 seconds. On someone health stacked it goes upwards of 1500 per heal and don't forget that while you can recieve one heal every 10 seconds from this, priests cast their heals on allied demigods and you have two of them.
I'm not saying you get healing wind 2 instead of heal, just that you should get both. Healing wind and priests gives huge raw healing to your team for free and heal gives large targettable burst healing. A great combo is heal 1 and healing wind 2 with monks early on, then as you get more mana you increase it to rank 3 for the 1200+debuff removal and buy high priests when you can.
Getting the balance right is important. As it happens, hp stacking is very powerful for a number of reasons. People can get the (large) benefit from hp and still have no mana problems with the right play. Also, sedna is not so much a healer as support. With pounce and heal she works, but to reach her maximum potential she needs people with her, and reaching that potential does not consist of spamming heal. Pounce for the focus fire burst, silence too, healing is to keep people up while everyone does their job, which includes sedna. This is why she benefits from lots of hp.
Basic game mechanics: learn them before criticising. Priests will heal demigods whenever they can. A demigod can be healed by one type of priest every 10 seconds(the last time I timed it, anyway). The priest's cooldown is 6 seconds. It's not random at all and if you actually know what's going on you know exactly when a priest will heal you.
(Pounce is awesome burst) But yes, you need to outheal and outdamage. In order to outheal you need both heal and healing wind 2 with priests.
The only thing I'd say about OP's build is I think the extra points in inner grace would be more useful elsewhere. Generally, I'd prioritise heal 3 over inner grace 3. Also, that point in pounce 4 is pretty open as you said. Inner grace 1 early is great so you can benefit from 10 hp/s and 5% speed for the edge, but after that you take it for the speed and you get speed as you need it. Usually with a wand of speed you don't need much more. Sometimes you're against a speed stacker though.
- Im not saying that u dont pick healing wind, i pick it allways... but not instead of heal thats for sure.
- If u have heal u have the timing controled, u can be interrupted, ok, but u use it when u want on the other hand u have a "possible" healing by a pair of minions that can be alive or dead, can be stunned (and minions are stunned a long time more than DGs usually), can be AoE´d easily.
- Of course that i pick healing wind and priests but that dont mean that im going to base all my healing on external factors all the game, healing wind and monks are an extra healing not the main healing thats for sure.
- i have pounce at the max lvl all the game so the only difference in dps between this build and mine is about what items are choosed, u can have pounce maxed, heal maxed, healing wind maxed... and any build maxing heal is outhealing this build easily.
Well if u think that Sedna is not a good healing support... what can i say?
She dont benefit from lots of HP at all, she benefits from tons of mana becouse with HP and less mana u are a lot predictable, u are a tank with low resources, what about silence? 1000 mana or pounce?1000 mana how many of them are u going to use with a low mana pool and tons of HP?, if u have tons of mana u can outheal, pounce, silence...
Zechnophobe:
Take Blood and Monks, rush and cap the HP flag, you can win 2v1.
I never said that. She provides more healing than any other demigod. I said it's better to describe her as support because she is not just about the healing.
You don't kill speed stackers by stacking speed yourself, you kill them using slows and stuns, of which Sedna has neither. If both your opponents are speed stacking you'll need to work with your ally to burst them to death, or settle for lane dominance (speed stackers are squishy)
I don't up inner grace nearly as much as you do in this build, I put the points into normal heal, taking a progression of something like
pounce/heal/grace/pounce/heal/wind/pounce/heal. Taking BotF and monks at the start. First item upgrade is to get Vlemish, second is to get high priests. Once you have these two, you've pretty difficult to push out of lane until the HoL comes in.
Silence depends on the enemy, its only any good against DGs that are going to get up close to you, and even then is both situation specific and expensive to cast, so I'd hardly say not having it is a major drawback. If you did take it you'd need to invest in more mana items that just vlem.
...
Lieu, you mentioned
A great combo is heal 1 and healing wind 2 with monks early on, then as you get more mana you increase it to rank 3 for the 1200+debuff removal and buy high priests when you can.
Is this an undocumented benefit to heal or what?
Yeah, been there, especially against DG's like Beast. He'll use his tried and true 'spit and run' tactics, to almost no effect. Monks + latent healing works quite well against that,
As for Leinadon's arguments: HP stacking is much more effective with a healer, and % based heals. It is more mana efficient by far, and also ends up being more healing. And probably the most important thing is that I do not have to waste heals on myself, but can focus on allies.
A great example of this is the 'follow the enemy through the towers + pounce' tactic that it affords. Many times I'll get a kill on an opponent who has about 120% of the damage I can do with a single pounce, by chasing them back through their defenses, and killing them. if I had few HP's, I'd have to waste time healing myself, letting them get away. With two priests healing me, and a bunch of hit points, not only do they heal me while I move, but they also take some shots from the towers away from me, giving me a bit of cover.
Heck, it is amazing how effective sedna + monks is early on at tower pushing in general.
Silence is a tease. Its a huge mana drain that only gives 3/4/5 seconds worth of spell denial. Unless you interrupt something with obvious animation, its impossible to tell whether you actually prevented anything (maybe they didn't plan on casting anyways). I've had some success messing with cooldowns by counting, but that is only useful against certain DGs, and even then they often just run away. The best use I've had for it is versus other Sedna's, to deny Heal as we spike her.
I'm still figuring out Wind vs Grace. BotF + Wind 2 + High Priests makes you a tank that can forcefully seize a lane from anything but a Tower Rook, but you likely wont catch anything for a kill and aren't very good at flag tag. Anklet + Grace 3 makes you a light cavalry unit that can chase for kills and quickly cap flags, but will lose a lane to a proper tank. Right now I think its best to choose direction based on opposing DGs. Against ranged harassment from TB or Reg you really need speed to close and pounce before they kite away, and you can outlast them in a war of attrition even without Priests, so against them I try to max Pounce, Heal, and Grace, and use Anklet. Against another general using Monks, you'll need Monks of your own to compete with them, so I get Wind 2 and BotF (lose Grace 2+3).
Silence has its place. I only tend to get it when I'm facing a team with multiple generals and TBs. I find it works best when you can use it in combination with other stuns to lock them out for several seconds.
Try out a wand of speed, it is one item I seriously couldn't live with out. That in combination with boots of speed and inner grace 1 should make you fast enough to chase kills down, and it allows you to get healing wind asap so you can access all that wonderful healing. I rarely find myself wanting inner grace 2 and 3 and usually don't get them except in long games or against extremely fast opponents.
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