Edit: Ok everone, it looks like the Great Shink Crisis is over. I would like to thank The Undying for his help. Now the rest of you can get back to the debate here. And if anyone sees Shink point me his way; the hunt is not yet over! Send out the Cylon armies to help find Shink!
Will since things at my Halo vs Star Wars thread have come to a stop for at least now, I thought this would be interesting.
Now some ground rules I hope will keep this a bit civil: Everything for both sides MUST be canon. No insulting either side( jokes from modified quots from games, books and TV episodes are ok). No wanking, no Q will snap his fingers and destroy the Covenant and Halo rings, I don't watch much Trek but I know enough: Q and his people will be the first to grab the mega size bag of popcorn for the show. No Borg wanking, if the Borg are so powerful than why can't they conquer about 150 planets? And no wanking the Master Chief, Flood, Forerunner tech and anything I forgot. I want this to be as fair and civil as possible.
Now lets go with a timeline of mid-TNG for ST and the end of the First Battle of Reach in Halo. Should that be a good timeline?
I suggest that if you do not know much about either side to read up on them.
Now! Let the battle begin!
Yes, but can they fire Phasors at Warp? If they can fire Phasors then that would help taking down shields, but from what I know only torpedos can, and then once again: how fast are they in normal space and how close? Point Defense pulse lasers should make short work of torpedos. And also from what I know Phasors are not very good against armor, so how do we know they will be a big help there? And as in my Halo vs Star Wars thread the reason I set the time lines is to put the two sides at or near the height of their power will keeping weapons that are far to powerful out of the picture.
And lets look at glassing again, I would think turning the surface of a world into a glass like-substance needs far more energy than slaging the surface. What do Federation ships do to a planet if they attack the surface with their heavy weapons? It took that Covenant fleet 1 hour to glass that planet, how long and to what degree do ST ships destroy the surface and purify the surface like the Covenant do? Because the Covenant would just jump into low orbit and glass it, unlike the UNSC they have no orbital defense stations that I know of. And there's nothing that can stop the Covenant from glassing your worlds like with some UNSC worlds were they had part if the surface intact because they had to find their holy relics.
And what if the Covenant re-arm the Forerunner Dreadnought/Keyship? Those things could cause pre-mature stellar collapse! But the Covenant only ever mange to bring it partly on line, but even then a small fraction of its power is all that is needed to power all of High Charity.
In the end if Star Trek breaks through Covenant lines then they just capture a UNSC human and run to the Ark and kill all of the enemy ships before returning from the Ark which is outside the range of all six Halo rings that are left in the galaxy.
And what is the normal range of weapons for ST ships in normal space? And how offten do they use Warp strafing?
This has been a UNSC transmission.
Halopedia data on Covenant Orbital Bombardment. Quote: The term Glassing, is also known as Plasma Bombardment or Orbital Bomdardment, is used to refer to the act by which a Covenant ship or ships bombard a planet from orbit using their Plasma Weaponry. The superheated plasma "bolts" discharged, striking the surface and converting the top soil and other surgace geology into a called lechatelierite that is similar to glass, hence it's name. The process also vaporizes any bodies of water the planet may possess, or at least reduces the remaining water to pools choked with ash. The ecosystem of a planet is also disposed off through this process. The Covenant have been known to utilize two methods of glassing. First and most common method used is when a ship of ships build up plasma along their lateral lines and discharged lances of plasma from orbit, which are guided until they impact the surface. This is repeated until every square centimeter of the planet is destroyed; in most cases it only takes the Covenant twelve hours to glass a planet. The second method is used when a ship must effectivly destroy a ground target from low range. This method involves building up plasma from the underside of the and then discharging it in a laser beam form; this method of low-range glassing has only been witnessed a few times, most norably during the Battle of Pegasi Delta and the glassing of Voi during the Second Battle of Earth. As a result of the destruction, the atmosphere of most planets have been known to boil away from the process, though not all planets suffer this, the most notable being Reach. The impact of the plasma bolt is similar to that of a nuclear detonation on a much different scale. When the plasma bolt impacts the surface, the magnetic field sustanining and guiding the plasma collapses, and, and dependong on how powerful the release of energy is, the initial zone of impact is obliterated instantly. The areas outside of the initial impact zone are effected by the heat wave generated by the blast; depending on the range, thoose closest outside of the blast zone are instantly killed by the intense heat. As thermal expansion takes over, the resulting flames fan out and create a pyroclastic surge, which will continue to burn the areas it comes into contact with until it has cooled enough that it cannot harm the surface. Subsequently, the atmosphere is covered with soot and ash thrown up from the initial impact area cools, the surface is covered by extensive areas of molten soil, and is comparable to active volcanic sites in some parts of the world, on a larger scale depending on the extent. The destructive process leaves the planet unable to recover to its former state. Throughout the Human-Covenant War, the Covenant aggressors glassed a significant majority of the UNSC's colony worlds from orbit. And although ground forces were invariably deployed first, as UNSC forces were routed, the bombardment would commence. The first planet to suffer this fate was Harvest, glassed from the jiralhanae-operated cruiser. It has ben noted that areas of interest to the Covenant are left intact for reasons of study or retrieval; however this is not common, as only three planets have been partially glassed and only when a Forerunner Artifavt was discovered. After the Covenant glasses a planet, a shard of glass is removed and placed in the Step of Silence within High Charity, where is hangs with hundreds of other shards form world glassed by the Covenant. The Second Battle of Earth culminated in the glassing of the city of Voi in Africa by Covenant Separatists, in an effort to contain a Flood infestation which had com to Earth only hours earlier. Lord Hood accuses the Sangheili lead fleet of glassing half of the continent, but gicen his distaste for his former enemies, he might have exaggerated about the actual exten of the glassing. This is supported by the fact that the area around Kilimanjaro seems relativly intact during the ceremony at the end of the game. It us unknown what other areas of the Earth, if any, were glassed by the Covenant prior to their abandonment of the planet and the arrival of the Sabgheili. Unquote.
And if you read the Plasma Torpedo section and read the Trivia it said that plasma torpedos can be frequently evaded by Long Sword fighters and drops ships, very small craft. Why is it that so many people say because heavy TL can't hit small fighters they have bad accuracy? They are ANTI-CAPITAL SHIP WEAPONS! Lets go back to WW2 for a moment and look at Japans Yamato battle ships, they had the largest guns of any battle ship ever as far as I known and took dozens of bombs from air craft to sink. But did it use those giant guns built to shoot targets that are large and slow moving to defend against an air attack? NO! It used it's AA guns because shooting at such small targets with it's big guns would have been a waste and make the outcome no different. The same is for plasma torpedos, they are super-accurate against large ships and station. Think about it, you have heavy weapons for taking out heavy enemy vehicles and stationary defenses. And that ISD seemed to hit those 40 meter wide asteroids in The Empire Strikes Back easily, those asteroids are just big rocks that are moving slowly and make easy targets compared to ships that can move all over the place.
Edit: Also about that one man destroying the Covenant, your forgeting the largest reason why Humanity was able to win the Human-Covenant War: The Covenant Civil War. If the Covenant Civil War hadn't happened thousands of Covi ships would have descended upon Earth, the rings would have been fired since without the Covenant Separtist fleet the MC and other UNSC forces would never have made it through the meat grinder of Covenant plasma to the surface of the Ark.
If an excessively slow ship in atmosphere, where it's even slower, can dodge them, a vastly more maneuverable Federation ship can too. That they're larger is irrelevant, they can displace more area just fine on account of their speed. A perk of not being stuck in the, comparatively, technological dark ages and using fusion power plants. UNSC ships, even the fast little ones, are really, really slow. You're processing the logic when you mention an ISD hitting asteroids, but not fighters. Use it elsewhere.
If you were actually arguing something, instead of just jizzing on yourself over Halo while admitting you don't actually know anything about Star Trek, this would be amusing instead of sad. Go find out how vast the differences are between the tech scales used in them, please. You'd be closer together if you compared current US military tech against Halo.
UNSC vs ST, I think I would go with star trek. The star trek weapons can do some pretty heavy damage to unshielded ships. I think the UNSC ships can damage star trek ships but I think it would kind of like the covenaunt with the federation having the upper hand. UNSC would need the numbers game to win. (other races likewise)
Agaist covenaut, I think the federation is the underdog in ship to ship combat. Not only do they have large shielded capitals but they also have strike craft. I do beleive the federation has strike craft but not seen very often (not sure at all in the TOS). I would think the shields aboard covenaut ships to be easy pray when the shields are down. So I have no decided who would win a slug festy.
Just send in the SG-1 team. They have blown up more ships single handedly than probably all of the UNSC fleet combined. And if one of them dies? Well, just bring them back via one of many numerous methods!
The bad thing for Star Trek is that only the TV episodes and movies count for canon, rendering all novels, tech guides or anything else useless for this debate.
On the other hand Halo's novels do count, which gives us the insane firepower of both the super MACs and the NOVA bomb.
The UNSC is the perfect enemy for the Borg with their projectile weapons. As Borg drones have NEVER demonstrated the ability to handle kinetic energy based weapons, they will be cut down like grass by UNSC weapons. Plus Borg adaptation is for frequency based energy weapons. This means that while their ships' shields will work against them, they CAN'T adapt to the MACs(or missiles) used by UNSC ships.
And what part about heavy weapons being used against heavy targets and light weapons against light targets did you not get? The torpedos from the heavy ship are the only ones that can be guided! And they were dodging rounds being fire at other, more important targets like the 20 big-ass guns that can shatter any ship in one shot! Unless ST ships from the Federation and the surrounding Empires can fire across millions of kilometers when engaging the Covenant in normal space and then dodge the plasma torpedos moving at 150,000 kilometers per-second that can make sharp turns that no ship can then they are dead!
And I do not know much about Trek, but I know enough to be sure that without pulling some giant-Dooms-Day machine out of thin air they will be boiled away.
And when has the US military ever caused this sort of devastation? Quote.The voice from the box started again-now loud and clear:"This is the prototype Nova bomb, nine fusion warheads encased in lithium trieride armor. When detonated it compresses its fusionable material to neutron-star density. I am Vice Admiral Danforth Whitcomb, temporarily in command of the UNSC military base Reach. To the Covenant uglies that might be listening, you have a few seconds to pray to your dammed heathen gods. You all have a nice day in hell." Kwassass pushed his way through the throung of Huragok. He had to get to the thing. Pull those wires. There was a flash of the most beautiful light, and more glorious heat thab he'd ever-
A battle group of eigthteen destroyers, two cruisers, and one carrier collected in high orbit over Joyous Exultation, and drew in a spherical formation about their flagship, the Incorruptible. They shimmered blue-white and vanished into Slipspace. A heartbeat later Vice Admiral Whitcomb's ploy of slipping the UNSC prototype Nova bomb into Covenant supplies had finally paid off: a star ignited between Joyous Exultation and its moon. Every ship not protected on the dark side of the planet boiled and vaporized in an instant. The atmosphere of the planet wavered as helical spirals of luminescent particles lit both north and south poles, mahing curtains of blue and green ripple over the globe. As the thermonuclear pressure wave spread and butted against the thermosphere, it heated the air orange. compredded it, until it touched the ground and scorched a quarter of the world. The tiny nearby moon Malhiem craked and shattered into a billion rocky fragments and clouds of dust. The overpresser force subsided, and three-hundred-kilometer-per-hour winds swept over Joyous Exultation, obliterating cities and whipping tidal waves over its coastlines. The Covenant Schism-the shattering of its cliebt races for a thousand years, and the genesis of their end-had truly begun. Unquote.
Tell me when the last was that the US did that? Or built a Super MAC orbital Defense platform that could fire 3000 ton rounds to 40 percent the speed of light? And at least fusion plants don't blow up as often! Fusion is far safer than that silly anti-matter reactor. And this is not about just the UNSC! This is mostly centered on the Covenant who have mobile space stations half the size of the DS 1 that, using fusion plants, can power a shield strong enough to repel a small moon! The only known station of that type is the Unyielding Hierphont from First Stirke, which had a fleet of over 500 Covenant ships joining it for the jump to Earth. I am pointing out that the UNSC was doing worse then you guys seem to think. And I do know enough to be sure that the Covenant would steamroll any one besides the Borg easily, as I said the Borg are the only threat to the Covenant and Flood.
Mostly by causing stars and planets to blow themselves up. And yea, there are way too many ways for them to get to any of the universes in question. Not to metion X-304 Class ships after the end of the Asgard. Enough sheild-peircing-beam fun for everyone?
Anyway, the Federationwould most definitely win due to their superior technology in general. Not to mention their ingenuity. That is something the Covenant most definitaly lack, seeing as they use the same brute force tactics they use conventional conflicts against powerful guerilla style attacks from Spartan II's. Notice how ST captains always seem to beam aboard and destroy some critical system that allows them to win a single ship engagement. How many soldiers can the covenant possibly have defending every critical system on their ships- ESPECIALY their multi-kilometer long vessle(s). Halo is a great game, but it really doesn't compare to ST.
edit: HOLY S... There were three things posted while I was typing this... (nvmnd, 2)
Yes, your right in every way about UNSC vs ST aslong as the Borg don't show up.
And the Federation is going to be destroy, period. The Covenant Carriers have dozens of stirke craft and hundreds from the AC. And do not forget the point defense lasers that would shoot them down, humans can only take so many G's of force before blacking out or death. And those same lasers can take out about half the missiles out of about 180 fired in The Fall of Reach, and that is just a small ship, the large ships with more energy would have dozens upon dozens of pulse lasers.
Covenant tech is in many ways better, and I agree the Covenant are not the best when it comes to ingenuity. But your forgeting that before they can beam anything away or in shields have to be down and that Covenant armor and hull alloys are not one of those things that block Transports or that the mag fields used to shape and guided the plasma torpedos don't mess it up.
And I agree. HOLY S... Stuff is posted faster then I can type.
Edit: Also, give me answers to the stuff I asked about Warp and ST damge levels for ships that the Federation and others have so I can fight back better, please.
Edit: And also, if I remeber correctly Impulse has a max speed of 50,000 kilometers per-second using a low level Warp-field. I know a bit more then you guys think I do about ST.
This is like talking to a wall. I obviously have a mental defect to be continuing.
Capital ships in Star Trek move faster than fighters in Halo, no speed advantage there. Star Trek doesn't use fighters too often because when you can hit a dime from the other side of a planet, you can't really do much with them. Mobility over durability only works when you can avoid being shot. They can't.
Covenant fighters would be so many explosions as they winked out of existence before ever getting into firing range. The Covenant capital ships wouldn't be in a much better position. They'd be going boom before getting into firing range too. Since they're so godawfully slow, they'd never get into firing range either.
They aren't scaled anywhere near each other.
Start a Stargate versus Halo thread. Those two are pretty similar. A godlike, and no longer present species of old with weapons that can exterminate everything in the galaxy, a technologically advanced bunch of religious wackjobs playing at an interstellar empire while severely under utilizing their technological advantage, and a backwards bunch of primates running around with solid propellant projectile weapons. You'll still be a blind Halo fan with no grasp of reality, but at least you'd sound rational.
Edit: Full impulse, which is no warp field, is over 1/4c.
Edit again: G's don't exist for pilots in Star Trek. They use a magical device called an inertial dampener to get rid of them! A common sense prerequisit for anything resembling interstellar warfare.
How about a Halo versus Warhammer 40000 thread? Ian't to see what people can come up with for that....
Samurye.
On page 149 of The Fall of Reach it is said that incoming plasma torpedoes are 2 seconds away from impact at 300,000KM. Earlier on the page we have a warning that the plasma torpedoes are 19 seconds away and there is a bit of dialogue between that warning and when the torpedoes are first launched.
So we have a speed for plasma torpedoes of: 300,000KM / 2s = 150,000 KM/s
We have an absolute minimum range of 150,000 KM/s * 19s = 2,850,000 KM
The speed of light is 299,792.458 km/s, 2,850,000 KM/ 299,792.458 km/s = 9.507 lightsecond range
I think it is safe to say that the Covenant have the range advantage here.
I don't see Star Trek ships being able to evade a weapon traveling at over 1/2 c if they are using impulse. The only hope they have of evading is going warp before the torpedoes hit. Warp is also the only way they could get in firing range of the Covenant without being hit.
Care to provide an example where a Star Trek ship uses warp to close the range on an enemy and dodge weapons fire?
Edit: As I say in my post after this I am sorry for being so hot headed. Please read the post after this, I have been a jerk with this post. Sorry. Sincerely, GrandAdmiralSova117.
GOD DAMN COMPUTER! Can't get it to stay on until now without massive lag. And your not talking to a wall! I AM! I'M THE ONE WITH THE MENTAL DEFECT!
Back this stuff up like I have! So me a ST ship hitting a dime from ten thousand kilometers away! The line of text that was here has been replaced by the following transmission from GAS117: I have been a jerk sorry, really really sorry-GrandAdmiralSova117. Give me proof that I can see on screen in an ST show with them hitting a small target moving very fast thousands of kilometers away; and not just say that they can! I have given you data, now give me data from ST that is true!
ANS WHAT PART OF MILLIONS OF KILOMETERS RANGE IN NORMAL SPACE AND 150,000 KILOMETERS PER-SECOND did you not get? As far as I know ST ships from the Federation have never engage at those ranges in normal space.
And what makes you so sure that those fighters will be lighting up the sky like fire works? THERE WOULD HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS CAMING AT YOU DODGING PHASERS AND TORPEDOS, SURE YOU WILL SHOOT DOWN A FEW HUNDRED BUT YOU WILL HAVE ALL READY BEEN GUTTED BY AN ENERGY PROJECTOR BLAST OR A WAVE OF DOZENS OF PLASMA TORPEDOS COMING FROM MILLIONS OF KILOMETERS AWAY AT 150,000 KILOMETERS PER-SECOND THAT WILL MELT RIGHT THROUGH YOUR SHIELDS THEN THROUGH THE DECKS AND BLOW UP THAT DAMN AM REACTOR!
I have back up everything here, I gave you info on my sources, NOVA bomb is The Ghosts of Onyx. Now back up the things you post with things that can be seen on screen happening in an ST show.
And I don't much about SG-1 or any other SG show besides the 1994 movie. And I don't know much about 40K either, I was thinking of getting the Dawn of War game before my XP went bonkers.
And sorry about getting Impulse and the G's thing wrong . You do know that the Covenant have the same thing and have a Forerunner Dreadnought, right? And how do you know how fast their ships are? And your forgeting they can be millions of kilometers away and be no more then a kilometer away by going thought Slipspace. I know that ST has it's onw version, but you can't get into Halo Slipspace with one of the drives. They can just enter the stream and appear all around you will your shooting at something else.
I have been civil and but your to thick head to take in any of my data and compare it to Federation ships and weapons for these fight, you just have to go thinking that ST is an "invincible juggernaut."
I wanted to keep this civil with no one calling any else names and insulting them, but if you will not take into account any of the data I have posted and give me your sources so I can see then find me some one who will be fair. Now I'm just really anger right now because of the computer, so I don't mean to be rude but I have other things to do.
This has been a very annoyed UNSC transmission.(Because of the computer)
hey psychoak, i think you need to relax a bit. where are you getting the idea that everything in halo ship-wise is slow? Did you play the games? in Halo 2 In Amber Clad accelerated faster than ive ever seen a ST ship. mobility always has a place in warfare, weapons as we know them take time to reach a target, the farther away the more time it takes. so you can shoot the legs off a ant on the other end of the solar system IF the ant didnt move at all. oh and before i forget, the main problem with using weapons at warp, is that your moving very very quickly, so if the covenant arent moving, your window of fire will be ridiculously short.
Ok, I'm sorry about all I just said that was insulting. I was just in a very bad mood after having to restart the computer a thousand times and having lag that is like going to a star at 55 MPH. I am very sorry, really. I was a jerk, but please, give me sources and data to back this up.
This has been a UNSC Nova level priority transmission. Sorry.
[/quote]
Thank you, but I think me and psychoak both need to relax a bit after that post I made. And as you just said the firing window will ridiculously short.
[quote]Ok, I'm sorry about all I just said that was insulting. I was just in a very bad mood after having to restart the computer a thousand times and having lag that is like going to a star at 55 MPH. I am very sorry, really. I was a jerk, but please, give me sources and data to back this up.This has been a UNSC Nova level priority transmission. Sorry.
Edit: Annoying quote function!
This has been a UNSC Nova level priority transmission. Sorry, really.
Also, in The Fall of Reach the captain of a UNSC frigate said that it would take them an hour to enter firing range with an enemy about 80 million kilometers away. Page 104.
they have
So when did they conquer the Federation then? I know that the Borg are the most powerful after the Q in ST.
I read at the site that haS a link was given for on page one here that one Cube took out 39 out 40 ships at Wolf 359, IS THAT THE RIGHT STAR?
If they have thousands of ships and one can do that then why don't they send, say 12, or 20. That should be more then enough for them to wipe the Federation and others out I would think.
Sorry for all the Cap words, hit the Caps Lock and didn't noticed.
And here's the fire power of a Super MAC from Halopedia, I'm just going to put up a small part of it, just to much stuff to put up. Quote. which equals appoeximately 5867.5 Gigatons of TNT. This is far in excess of the combined energy of the world's current nuclear arsenal, and a wolley from the 20 MACs in orbit arounf Reach have an equivalent impact energy to meteorite that caused the Chicxulub crater. This is powerful enough to penetrate and destroy most fully shielded Covenant warships. By receiving power from ground-based power plants, orbital platforms could achieve recharge and reload times as short as five seconds. Due to prohibitively large power and sizing requirements, no UNSC ships are thought to be equipped with Super MAC guns, although it is believed by some that the UNSC Supercarrier is armed with such a weapon. Unquote. Will I don't know about you, but 300 of those things would give any one attacking trouble. So as I said the UNSC had heavy stationary weapons but ship weapons were just least powerful and it took at least three rounds to take down Covi ships shield using the ship MAC. I think that's just for the Frigates and Destroyers, larger ships take many more rounds and hundreds of missile before the shields fail. And till me if I got anything wrong. And please give me more ST ship data and stuff so we can compare it and see which is better. Thank you.
I know we are talking about how fast the covie weapons are how fast are ST phasers or there destructive power?
According to this place http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_Star_TreK
When fired, photon torpedoes usually appear as a spiky ball of energy of varying colors, such as red,[19] orange,[20][21] The energy output of a photon torpedo, according to the Technical Manuals is a maximum theoretical yield of 25 Isotons and a maximum rated yield of 18.5 Isotons. According to the TNG Technical Manual, photon torpedoes use 1.5kg of matter and 1.5kg of antimatter. The resulting energy output from the interaction would be 2.70x1017Joules of energy (by E=mc2). This amount of energy released would be equivalent to 64.5315 Megatons yellow, blue, or green. of TNT.
Torpedoes are often depicted as being easy to modify to suit specific situations. Despite the stated maximum yield, torpedoes can apparently be made far more destructive with relatively little effort. In Star Trek: Voyager, Tuvok and Kim modify a normal photon torpedo with a gravimetric charge, similar to that of Borg technology, and increase its destructive yield to 54 isotons. Kim comments that 50 isotons would have been sufficient to destroy a small planet. Moments later, Janeway instructs them to increase its yield even further, to 80 isotons. It is not specified exactly how they modified the warhead, but it only requires a few hours to complete the work and uses materials readily available on Voyager. In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Spock and Dr. McCoy modify a photon torpedo to track the plasma emissions (a futuristic version of the heat-seeking missile) from a cloaked Klingon Bird of Prey as it attacks the Enterprise and the Excelsior.
I am looking for information on the TOS torpedos but have found none. I am looking up what an isoton is. From what I have read its about 2.6 megaton. Okay the powerful nukes aboard the UNSC ships are about 80 megaton (they have 3) and if I remember those did not destory a covie ship. Maybe take down its sheild but not out right destory they. So it would take more then one to torpedo to take down a covie ship. We know that the torpedos are more powerful then phasers. We don't have a figure for the power of a plasma torpedo but I would assume that it out classes the star trek ones in power. Now it could also just be that covie sheilds are weak agaist plasma regardless of how powerful it is.
Thank you for the data Josef086, one of the only things besides how much an isoton is will be how small the planet is that is can destroy. Also, what if thw planet is like some asteroids can be and is a rubble heap just held togather by gravity? I can't remeber which, but wasn't one of Neptune's moons shattered and able to pull it's self back togather? So since half of the blast would be away from the ship the would be about 32 megatons against the ship, and tell me if I'm wrong, I just have other things to do right now, but I'll check back every fifteen minutes or so.
Edit: And here's a quote from The Fall of Reach. quote. The room where she now stood could withstand a direct hit from an 80-megaton nuck. Unquote. So the min yield of the Shiva warhead would be in 2517 80-megatons, this is from page 28.
Ok, i just created an account to comment on this because there is something all of you have been missing.
Plasma weapons are considered relatively weak and out dated by Kirks and Picards times. Just watch the Enterprise series. Earths FIRST starship used to be outfited with plasma cannons, then replaced with phasers. Same with the hand weapons. So obviously there was a reason for this.
And to Sova- you keep thinking photon and quantum torpedoes can be shot down... they are mostly energy and cannot be shot down.
And on the topic of Federation sheilds: they can dissipate many, many, many megatons of energy. In one of the TNG episodes the Enterprise was under fire from 'primitive nuclear weapons' and it took it like a breeze.
And if you need sources just watch the Enterprise series. They explain all this since the technology was new at the time.
I'm going to completely ignore the part about SSD sized Super Carriers since a Executor class Super Star Destroyer is (according to Wookiepedia) 19 kilometers long, and a CCS class Super Carrier is (according to Halopedia) a little more the 5.3 kilometers long. Now I feel terrible because you made me quote something from Wikipedia.
The Covenant ships require hours to destroy a planet surface, and people overestimate the power of these weapons. At the speeds that they supposedly travel, and the time it takes for these weapons to hit there targets, there would be a noticable delay between the position the crew of the ship think the enemy is in, and the position they actually are in. A simple, random evasion pattern would cause the Plasma Torpedoes to overshoot, and I doubt that Plasma Torpedoes (despite the obvious retardness of this statement) can turn around and continue at the same speed. I hope some people realized this...
The Covenant may have thousands of ships, but how many of them can stand up to a ship like Enterprise?
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