Next week we're planning to release the v1.03 update for Sins of a Solar Empire: Entrenchment. In keeping with all the Entrenchment goodness, v1.03 will only be available via Impulse (http://www.impulsedriven.com) to registered customers.
WARNING: THIS UPDATE MAY INVALIDATE EXISTING SAVE GAMES.
Blair Light frigates were extrenly usefull prior to the carrier nerf. In fact before the carrier nerf light frigates were the core of my fleets. And with a well balanced fleet they we prety nasty. People just didn'T have nought time to realise it. The time people were noticing light frigates carriers got nerfed and the LRFs spams came back and all the Light frigates tactics died.
And if the debate si raging pass my picture around.
Also dealign with a carrier spammer was lest fo a problem then an LRF spam. Carrier spams were also lest frequent. Thus lest of a problem.
If a dude spamed carriers you could just rape him with LFs. I had lost of fun doing it.
The movement speed decrease for carriers was to stop people from "kiting" which i think is running the carriers around a grav well while the strike craft killed everything else.
This change to carriers is probably a good thing if you are talking about Sins 1.16 to 1.17. But add Entrenchment buid rate penalties and you have just removed the LRF counter. Now the build order will be LRF then HC and maybe a smattering of support cruisers to augment the repair and firepower of those two units. I hope I'm wrong but I really doubt it.
I think EadTaes is right in saying that before all this carrier nerfing there was a counter to them. Light frigates had the speed and the fire power buff against heavy armor. Now that carriers will be slower you really will have no reason to waste resources on building light frigates. Why bother when LRF have more numbers and firepower and now speed to deal with carriers.
As TEC in Entrenchment I can build 20 LRF and 6 flak frigates and take on 7 carriers with 14 squads of fighters and I will only lose 2 LRF. I can't do the same in regular Sins. If I try that in 1.16 the LRF will all die. Please give it a try and see for yourself. It might be okay in Vanilla Sins but it nerfs carriers to kingdom come in Entrenchment.
Addendum: Formed 19 LRF and 6 flak into a fleet (100 fleet supply) in Entrenchment v1.02, set the fleet formation to tight this time. Lost only 1 LRF against 7 carriers with 14 fighter squads (96 fleet supply).
There is a simple counter to that, build basic assualt frigates. If the player just keeps on spamming lrms, then he deserves to lose.
If assault frigates = light frigates, then yes I agree.
I like the kiting fix for the carriers...but fix the build rate penalty...at the very least now that Carriers are the slowest thing ship in the game (might be as slow or slower as a Vasari Starbase) make the penalty only apply when they are under fire.
Could it be time to join the unity?
On another note, I'm glad that the range for Final Judgement level 2 is finally fixed.
Normally, I might have been a little disappointed.
However, comparing how IC fares against CA or Relic with TWseries/COH respectively, I'm eager to call it a step in the right direction.
Keep it up IC
Yeah they do
And thanks for the update!
im really disapointed with this carrier thing
i only recently learned how awesomely effective they are when i was playing Vasaari and kept getting them for the Returning Armada thing. awesome
but now, its just like wtf
tbh i also think capital carriers need to be improved somewhat. i mean, a basic capital carrier with two squadrons, max 7 or so. doesnt seem right. capital carriers should carry at least double figures of squadrons, and hey should have more at the start (level 1), otherwise you only really buying them for their abilities, WHICH DEFIES THE POINT OF A CARRIER
don't you buy all capital ships for their abilities? other than the very early phase of the game, their pure dmg effect is relatively small and just sitting there is no benefit. they are useful for sieging though, but that is also mostly because siege frigs themselves are so horrible that you'd only really use them for quicker mop-up. by which time games are already decided more often than not.
PS. IC is going a nice job compared to most other gaming companies (keep chasing Blizzard* ) so I expect the Cap ships to be revised sooner or later.
PPS. Why did I write all that crap anyway... I guess I'm in for a nap.
They are plenty balanced. The difference is how people play. Fleets don't get maxed out in typical MP games. But try to deal with 100+ bombers/fighters without a few Flak Bursts from Kols, and try keeping your level 10 capitals alive in the end-game without Dunov's shield restore.
The vast majority of the existing capital abilities have a good use, just that some don't come into play because people play short games.
Thank you Blair.
And to EadTaes, I agree. The carrier build penalty crushes the usefulness of carriers. Heck, they can't even defend now. At least cap ships should be able to build SC without a penalty. Anyway, just put 10 flak in your fleet and you never have to worry about SC again, which isn't the way things should be. Here's the a good link with more discussion: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/354150
Seige frigates are being ignored again.
For the marza they did exactly what I said they would online mine was 100dmg over 30 waves theirs is 120dmg over 25 waves. And a Visual buff.
The the supply of LFs and LRFs it was unlikely they would change it right away. It's an interesting idea but if they fix carriers to me that means my LFs strategies will be viable again and they will still be fine as they are.
The biggest BS here is the carriers get nerfed once more. Witch means more hard core LRF spams are going to occure. IF they don't remouve the build penalty they will have to nerf flaks. Wich will take use down the wrong path again.
EDIT: Wow just realise I replied to something ont eh first page. Ho well.
BTW Blair when you remove the build penalty on carriers and evenm before that. Have a look and consult the anty-matter recharge rates on the carriers. Their is a huge imbalance in the Areia Drone host anti-matter recharge rate vs the TEC and Vasary carriers. This issue needs to be adressed as well.
Just for the record, IC I agree with every change so far. Not all of your fans think you are completely insane.
I don't think their insane. I think they made a bad choise when they nerfed carriers with the build penalty. And that's normal everyone makes mistakes and sometimes shit doesn't work out as you planned it would. As long as they fix the problema nd turn the situation back around I am cool with it. But if this game remains a LRF spam I will not only continue to not play Entrenchement online. I'll just not buy the 2nd and 3rd expansion, for I want a stratergy game not a spam game. BIG DIFFERENCE IN MY BOOK IMHO.
Just to clarify, did you mean carrier spam or LRF spam?
LRF I edited it. Thansk for spoting it.
well now i think next subverters should be nerfed further, and domina subjutigators. They are underpowered so they deserve a good nerf.
Hey, how come my game won't update? I check for updates but nothing downloads or installs from impulse. Is 1.03 not availalbe or something?
Not available yet, Read the OP.
Good call
Lots of very nice changes, but I can't believe that carriers got nerfed...again. Why?
The change to MB is not even close to being adequate.
I would love to see a major buff for seige frigates, subverters and Dominas in the next patch. They are shockingly weak atm.
Dominas I dont wanan see boosted. Subs could sue a bit mroe HP and that's it. Their relative weekness come from the fact most people jsut don't build enought to reach critical mass. As TEC to properly cover my fleet I need 10 hoshis reping, 20 hoshies disabaling, 10 cielos empowering and 10 cielos using designate target. That'S 50 support cruisers and in a 1.01 mixed fleet it gave that fleet alot of power. You can do that witht he other races as well.
As Vasary 20 oversears will amke your fleet hard to kill. Hell 15 will probably surfice, Then have 10 subs use sheild disruption and 20 use distortion feild and you will shut down enemy fleets.
Same for advent hell you even need lest. Combined with a Progenitor you wont ever need more then 10 gardians to keep your fleet alive. And you cna still use repulse like mad. If anythign gardians need a nerf of soem sort and I got a few ideas. But that is beside the point. Then comes the dominas witch are extremly similer to hoshikos but their abilatie are chaneling instead of instant cast. But their si reason for that. First Supresion will completely shut down and enemy ship, they enemy will not be able to move shoot or use abilaties, think it even stop pasive regeneration and you cna still fire at the nemy ship. Demo bots for TEC on disable weapons cuts speed by half and deal 250dmg mitigated and can still fire at enemy. Sub will also completly shut down the enemy ship by locking it in phase space thus you cant fire at them either their just taken out of the fight. Perserverence has 2 effect it repairs 25 hull per seond compared to 20 for hoshies and it clear abilaties that teh enemy has casted on ships. Say you lums got caught in distortion feild, well with perserverence you can cancel that feild. Basicly you cna counter the effect of your enemys support cruisers.
I for one don't see them gettign a buff of any sort except for a HP buff on subs but their HP should be what ti was before. I think 50% between what it is currently and what it was will surfice.
I have said it in other thread before and will say it again. Support cruisers are force multyplier and combat ship are only force additioners. At least that hold true if the game is balanced. If it's just an LRFs spam like it is current and how it going to get even more with the carrier nerf once more then that also break apart along with the game balance.
lol Ead i was joking about my suggestions. I was comparing them to the carreirs because they are less powerful than enemies support cruisers. Thats not my point, the point is that carriers were underpowered so the Devs deceded to nerf them more.
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