There's been a distinct lack of replays for Vanilla 1.16, let alone replays from excellent players. Last night, my friends and I had the fortune of playing a game with Cykur (I'm sure I don't need to explain who he is). Afterwards, he was gracious enough to do a 20 minute Q&A about how to play well. Humbly enough, he remarked that he doesn't do anything amazing, he just makes sure that he commits less mistakes.
Without further ado:
Cykur Replay
Thanks for playing with us Cykur, and especially thanks for the Q&A! Also, Wax, Davey, and Silent, thanks for being such great sports. Next time we have such a high level player come in, I'll be on the opposing team.
Honestly, just not making mistakes is one of the best ways to win a RTS game. You can go far without having any incredible micromanagement or tactical skills just so long as you're meticulous and don't make blunders.
Have you saved a copy of the Q&A? Or is it at the end of the replay? I'd dearly like to read that.
Thanks for putting it up.
EDIT: I've watched the replay. There was some useful stuff in there. Pretty pointless for me to point it out though as you can just go see. So thanks again for the replay.
Would it be possible to grab a copy of that Q&A though? That'd be really useful.
The Q&A was done in the chat lobby after the game, and I was not aware of a way to log the chat so I do not have a copy. I probably should have written it down, because my mind is blanking now on some of the things he said. But I'll do my best:
Slow and Steady:
One thing he difinitvely stressed is that the game is about many smaller victories adding up to a larger whole, rather than a few large decisive victories that win the game by themselves. Part of this is an emphasis on knowing when to retreat so as to save your ships. In particular, he remarked that if you can eliminate all ship losses within the first 5 minutes, you will have a distinctive edge. He specifically pointed out that he rotates his LRMs when clearing a militia. As soon as one of them starts taking hits, he retreats them from grav well. You can see this in the replay.
Jumping the Gun:
He also made a point of talking about how he sends his colony ship in before all the ships are cleared. He sends them in at the soonest point that he knows it will survive without taking heavy damage. That way he expands quicker and reaps the income sooner.
Playing Vasari:
Capt inquired about how to play as Vasari successfully. Cykur noted that, as Vasari, you MUST be on the offensive ASAP. Because of how expensive the Vasari ships are compared to everyone else, he noted that they are severely hampered midgame. In his exact words, "If you don't get some form of early advantage, then the Vasari are screwed." He further noted that "if you find yourself on the defensive, then that's a big sign that you are probably going to lose."
He also emphasized the importance of grabbing neutrals early and maintaining ownership.
Breaking up the Battleball:
Waxworks asked about how to deal with the Advent as TEC. Unfortunately, I don't really remember what he said about it aside from the fact that it was insanely difficult. Waxworks may hopefully recall and give a better answer, but from what I remember, a major key is to simply keep advent from getting a complete battleball with all the bells and whistles. If they have it, hit the guardians as best as you can, try to find some way to break up the formation, and abuse missile barrage wherever you can to get the advantage. Of course, like I said, I don't really remember what he said, so I may not be giving the right advice.
Beating a Vasari Assailant Rush as Advent:
The first thing he noted, was that Illuminators beat out assailants because of their side beams. Get them out ASAP and run them into the middle of the assailant formation. He also noted that because of the expense of carriers, you're best bet is to pump out LRFs before carriers, and THEN start in on the carriers.
If you can't get illums out quick enough, he noted that massing scouts is a good counter to LRFs because scouts do double damage against them AND because they are MUCH cheaper than LRFS. If you lose an equal amount of scouts as your opponent does LRFs, he's still in the hole because they are much more expensive. Cykur specifically cited that 3 scouts vs 1 LRF is a good ratio.
If your opponent also has skirmishers to protect the LRFs, he noted that you should figure out which scouts are being focus fired and micro them away from the battle to get the skirmishers chasing them. You should have much more scouts than he has skirmishers, so you can leave the rest to still deal with the LRFs.
The scout tactic, he emphasized, is MERELY A DELAYing strategy TO buy you time to GET ILLUMS.
When to Get the Second Cap:
"It depends." He noted that if he is sure his opponent is "folding over" then he will buy a few more caps to hasten the bombardment of planets. He also particularly noted that a good enough opponent can go off colonizing more worlds than you can destroy and buy the time (and resources) to build himself back up to be a threat. Ironically enough, in the replay he just posted on the multiplayer forum, you can see a (sort of) example of just this tactic.
On the flipside, he noted that he will often stick with the first capital he has if the battle remains very close and intense. The resources, in this case, are much better off devoted to creating a larger fleet, especially with the devastating effects of focus fire on a cap.
That's about everything I can remember. If anyone else remembers something I forgot, please feel free to throw it up there.
EDIT: I forgot to mention before: He said to look up all of Raging Amish's guides.
Thanks very much, I noticed some of that (particularly the way he sent the colony frigates in early). I didn't notice him rotating LRFs much, maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention to that particular aspect.
Other things I saw were use of a colony frig to take aggro off of his LRMs, his impressive continual production (I presume he set waypoints on the fleets) of ships to ensure his frontline remained tough, and his general use of fleets. I tend to put several different ship types in one fleet to make them stick together and then select all of one ship type via alt and then designate targets specific to each group's abilities.
What Cykur did was have one or two fleets for each ship type and then simply targetted from there. I would have thought that this would leave his carriers (for example) open to attack, but that didn't happen. Another thing I noted was extensive use of order queueing and that his initial resources went to extra HW infrastructure rather than scouts.
I think I've learnt quite a lot from this, so thanks for posting and enjoy the 2 karma I've given you.
In the replay, I didn't notice him doing it too much either, but I think that is mostly because the Marza took on most of the militia by itself. Mainly, I saw it on the volcanic planet after he cleared the first desert.
Although he didn't originally mention it, I noticed that too. In particular, I noted that he kept his colony ship in place until the majority of the remaining militia was cleared rather than rush it in to colonize.
Now that you bring it up, he did say something about this. He specifically puts his hoshikos in a group so he can move them exactly where he needs them. If you watch the replay he just put up himself, he makes an ungodly large number of small fleets.
I think the reason he didn't create the scouts was because we were playing on set map rather than on random. He probably already knew the map. If you watch his other replay, he creates a large number of scouts as Vasari. I have, however, noticed that he DOES buy the infrastructure upgrade right away. This is probably why it's automatically there in quick start for entrenchment.
I used to do this and stopped for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON: If you're retreating a fleet, and one of the ships get caught behind (*cough* capital *cough*), the ENTIRE FLEET JUMPS BACK INTO THE SLAUGHTER. The only thing you can do about it is try to click "leave fleet" on the hapless ship that gets caught in the gravwell and hope that you did it soon enough to prevent your whole fleet from throwing itself onto a sword.
And thanks for the karma
I don't think I said to go Illums before carriers. If you know you are only being attacked by Assailants, then by all means get some carriers out. Just try and get Illums out to join the fight as soon as you can because before long the attacker will mix Skirmishers with his Assailants, if he hasn't already.
I also advise getting a 2nd cap out if you need a specific ability, like something to interrupt Marza, or if you need some extra repair as Vasari you can make a Skirantra...etc.
Yeah, I almost never put my caps in a fleet for this very reason. You'll notice I usually disable auto join on my caps. Some exceptions are things like the Skirantra carrier, which I normally group with the rest of my carrier cruisers.
I sometimes mix hoshis with other fleets and sometimes I make multiple hoshi fleets so they aren't all in one place. I would advise keeping them grouped with whatever is being shot at, but sometimes a hoshi fleet is nice, because one of your ships moves away and takes fire, and the hoshis move to where the action is to repair it. Unfortunately, sometimes the hoshis do stupid things, like go to attack a turret somewhere, so you still have to watch them, or disable their autoattack. Grouping them with whatever your opponent is trying to kill usually works pretty well.
Your capital should be in first to grab aggro, but things like HC's will retarget your LRF, and LRF will retarget your LF, so you need to rotate them out unless you don't mind losing one or two.
I usually set waypoints to the frontline. I used to set waypoints on fleets, but sometimes when the fleet flagship dies, the waypoint seemed to die too, and I wouldn't realize until I started to wonder where my reinforcements were. Maybe this doesn't happen anymore, I haven't use fleet waypoints in a very long time. I just adjust my waypoints a lot to the current frontline or staging area.
Speaking of replays, if you want to see another replay (one where I lose <gasp> ), I posted a replay yesterday for a 5 hour 2v2 I was in where my ally went belly up pretty damn fast.
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/354379
And there is the great secret to beat Cykur (and JJ, Tyr etc...) - kill their allies before they kill you
Or team them with someone who leaves their colonies at 10 population.
Edited for resolution.
I think the player action count is messed up, when I play with friends over ~5 hour game I have a few thousand player actions, everyone else has several million or even billion. From my friend's perspective it was the other way round, he had a low(ish) action count and I had an enormous number of actions.
Actions has been broken for a while. Also, when you watch a replay, I think it shows YOU'RE actions, not the original ones, so as you change views around and click on things, it is actually measuring for you as that player. I used to check out actions immediately after a game back before it was throwing the incorrect numbers in the millions.
That would actually make a lot of sense, since I spent most the time watching from the "cykur" perspective
Strike my comment then - I'm glad it's just a case of a broken stats screen, because that shit was confusing.
I watched this and dont understand (did i dl the wrong thing?)
Cykur loses his colony frig to militia and then loses his marza to militia. All while 10 LRMs sit idly two jumps away and his fist ast and desert remain at initial pop (no upgrades). (im stuck between laughter and confusion at this point)
about this time the replay minidumps... (btw does anyone know how to fix this?)
but PEOPLE PLEASE tell me what i missed. all i saw was a bunch of 'seemingly' noobs blundering around 'seemingly' blind as bats.
It is a problem on your side. The replay is just a bunch of saved actions and your game engine reconstructs the battle as it ocurred. If you have a file out sync, are running a mod, different version, corrupted file, etc. it is not going to work -- this is also why you minidumped, it got so far out of sync that it crashed.
The game was a vers. 1.16 game with no mods, and you should restart your client if you just finished some other game to clear your buffers if you get minidumps. If this doesn't help, probably will have to take it to the tech forums and ask for help there.
OK. 2nd try went better. Havnt played non-entrenchment sins in awhile...forgot i had a mod activated in 1.16. lol
Did not know the replay worked like that. Kinda funny when i think about what it was doing and seeing what actually happened
Strange. That's never happened to me. Maybe it was fixed in a patch? I've had the game since the beginning (I pre-ordered), but I haven't had the chance to play it as often as I would have liked.
Have you ever had the cap attached to the fleet continually gravity bombed/reveried by an opponent in a grav well with an inhibitor? That's when it shows up...in spades.
And it is the current version. It has only occurred in multiplayer (cuz the computer is never that smart), and it was a huge loss everytime.
I'll take your word for it, I haven't played enough online for this sort of thing to happen to me.
deletede
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