This weekend we celebrate Memorial Day, one "holiday" I take very seriously. I know that most folks see it as another day off...brats or ribs on the grill...beer in the cooler...maybe a trip to the beach...etc. I am not trying to take any of that away from the day, I think it is cool to have a three-day weekend with all the things that go with it. I just want to share with you a few thoughts about why we have this holiday. As a nation, I think that we are better tuned into Memorial Day and its meaning than we were pre-9/11. Lots of young 'uns have fallen in the last few years and it would be hard to find a family that hasn't been touched by this war in some way or another. I am invested into it in a number of ways, topmost is the fact that my oldest son is back over there for the third time. Even though I have been retired and away from the Army for more than 16 years now, I have a number of friends who have had family members over there, have watched young mothers struggling with kids who need to have their dads around, and live in a community where lots and lots of its young people have been in harms way. And more than a few have come home in a CBA. There was another ceremony over at Fort Cartoon the other day for five more. This year the Air Force Academy is honoring another fallen grad, a young woman, at their commencement. I don't think that any of them died thinking that they were doing it for their country. It is usually a little more personal than that. But it was their understanding that this was a potential outcome of their service and their willingness to accept that risk in pursuit of security and safety for us all that makes them deserve the honor we extend. So we should extend it. To them and their families. A toast: "To those who came home draped in the flag that they served with honor...God love them...and thank God for them"
This weekend we celebrate Memorial Day, one "holiday" I take very seriously. I know that most folks see it as another day off...brats or ribs on the grill...beer in the cooler...maybe a trip to the beach...etc. I am not trying to take any of that away from the day, I think it is cool to have a three-day weekend with all the things that go with it. I just want to share with you a few thoughts about why we have this holiday. As a nation, I think that we are better tuned into Memorial Day and its meaning than we were pre-9/11. Lots of young 'uns have fallen in the last few years and it would be hard to find a family that hasn't been touched by this war in some way or another. I am invested into it in a number of ways, topmost is the fact that my oldest son is back over there for the third time. Even though I have been retired and away from the Army for more than 16 years now, I have a number of friends who have had family members over there, have watched young mothers struggling with kids who need to have their dads around, and live in a community where lots and lots of its young people have been in harms way. And more than a few have come home in a CBA. There was another ceremony over at Fort Cartoon the other day for five more. This year the Air Force Academy is honoring another fallen grad, a young woman, at their commencement. I don't think that any of them died thinking that they were doing it for their country. It is usually a little more personal than that. But it was their understanding that this was a potential outcome of their service and their willingness to accept that risk in pursuit of security and safety for us all that makes them deserve the honor we extend. So we should extend it. To them and their families. A toast:
"To those who came home draped in the flag that they served with honor...God love them...and thank God for them"
There is a big difference between being cautious about children because they might be suicide bombers, and abusing them for fun, WITH approval from the state for "national defense, OORAH".
No there is not, it is called copping with the situation but lets talk about this "true evil" you mention... Did it ever occure to you that the soldier's didn't have to drop the waterbottle at all and just be mean as hell? That is the raw fact of the matter, they did give the kids the water; I'll tell you what true evil is though, true evil is where a leader would occupy and horde all of the water in a country until the need for water would prompt a group of children to run clear across town just for a bottle, and it is definatly true evil that anyone would support such a leader and think we shouldn't have liberated a country in that kind of pickle.
Mmm yes differentiating between scumbags and decent people is a horrible, horrible thing.
don't worry guys people just get like this in war http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/05/08/kentucky.iraq.soldier.rape/
Only took three years for a verdict! What a shining squad of America's finest! Don't worry lads, if anybody cites you as an example of awful people who don't deserve respect as veterans, it's ok, that little girl was brown, just like the 9/11 hijackers! Sometimes four guys just need to cut loose
Also lol about your nursing ignorance. Call me dumb if you like, but we're more than just butt-wipers.
And at least I'm not raping 14 year olds.
so... a soldier rapes and murders, is convicted, and is expected to get the DEATH PENALTY for it and that somehow makes all soldiers rapists and murderers who do it with the "sanctioning of the government, hoora"?
Which part of him being convicted and getting the death penalty is an indication to you that this is somehow acceptable and widespread and encouraged?
And 3 years for a trial that ends with a death penalty is rather QUICK actually, it would have taken the same time or longer had he done the same to an american family (which, he most probably would have had he not been shipped overseas)
Which part of my earlier statement about some troops being very good people while some do not deserve to be honoured isn't getting through to you?
There are most certainly irresponsible or immoral people in every profession, and what I'm advocating is recognition of these faults rather than turning a blind eye to them. The problem is that blanket statements are what happens on holidays such as Memorial Day.
For what it's worth I am excellent friends with some US soldiers; one working as a technician, another two as standard infantry. To the best of my knowledge they've acted as decent human beings, and it's people like that who deserve honour; all three however have acknowledged that there are bad apples, they are more plentiful than some may care to know, and like any cruel person, should not be seen as heroes.
No other military in history has policed itself as thoroughly as the United States. When bad people do bad things they are usually caught and punished. Despite the caveat from Mr Nephilim, he continues to insist on painting all of us with a broad brush. It rankles him to think we are all making excuses for war criminals and honoring them when they die. This whole thread makes me feel bad. I intended it to be my annual reminder of what this holiday represents...instead we start flaming. I know that our servicemen and women do many wonderful and selfless things in Iraq...and a few of them do thoughtless and mean things. A very few of them do criminal things. It was never my intention to defend any misbehavior, but I cannot imagine how a mind can lump the criminals in with the idiots. Not all of the Americans killed in action are angels, not all of them are devils. So should we not honor ANY because a few bad apples may fall into that group? A large portion of the world's population breathes free because of the blood of American servicemen...both good and bad. If it bothers you so much to witness the "mindless worship" we display on Memorial Day, don't look. But think carefully and answer this question for me: Why does a few incidents of "cruel" treatment of Iraqi children witnessed on Youtube qualify you to judge us all...when the decent, beyond the call acts of hundreds of young soldiers do not rate the same weight? I know, you SAID that some of us are honorable...but you focused on the others. We don't.
it's almost as if i brought focus to those others in an attempt to raise discussion about the morality of a holiday covering all who have joined the military as opposed to acknowledging the honourable specifically or making it a day of mourning rather than celebration
i assure you, nobody here intended for us to honor the american soldiers executed for commited horrible crimes while on duty. To even insinuate that we might be is stupid. The reason we say "to honor our troops" and not "to honor our troops except the ones who raped and murdered innocent civilians for fun and were then cought and put on trial" is because:
1. Its obvious
2. We do not want to mar the holiday with such discussions
3. Because often children are privvy to such discussions so we avoid discussing rape.
Hating the holiday because of a rare case of a criminal soldier is insane, inane, and insulting. As well as generalizing our well policed troops as inhuman monsters with the rare exception, instead of the other way around (the monsters are the rare exception)
no see im questioning the necessity of such a holiday period when not only are there obvious cases of cruelty ranging from taunting children with clean water to outright rape and murder, but actual veteran care upon returning home is terrible
in essence memorial day is all flash, no substance. why is it a weekend for celebration over the dead? canada has remembrance day and it's a day of mourning more than anything else; you will not see HOT HOT REMEMBRANCE DAY SAVINGS up here. doubtless i'll get like five angry replies telling me to fuck off and that they love the troops and do mourn but look at the public image of memorial day and tell me if "new swimsuits and bbq" and "big sales" are particularly mournful or thoughtful of the troops returning beyond WOOOOOOOOOO
Look Nephilim, I don't understand why you decided to come to this thread and spread your dissidence about the US Military and a US holiday (which is obviously not yours). It seems to me that your only goal was to spread your own personal misery with the rest of us. First of your contempt for US Military and secondly for the advertising industries postering for monetary gain.
Not a single person here has condoned the honoring of those who have disgraced the uniform they wore/wear.
I and many others here, have several family members who have served in the military with honor and conducted themselves in honorable ways during their time of service. I find your pitiful malicious remarks completely distasteful to the veterans that are here on JU.
Ted, Moderateman, Shadow War, BFD, Leeman, and other's I'm misssing all have served in the US military (THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!!).
Nephilim you complained that the advertising agencies have become distasteful in their sole interest for monetary gain for them and the industries they represent. I find you completely contradictory in your absence to acknowledge BFD's attempt to refocus his readers back to the purpose of this US National Holiday. This complete absences reveals your only motive. To spread your miserable agenda in an attempt to justify your self-righteousness. This follows quite consistently with your moniker?
I highly doubt that you achieved your objective here other than puking on the rest of us. You aren't even a US citizen and I'm confused as to why you'd even care about our holiday and choose to begrudge us from remembering and honoring those who have fought for our freedoms (even including yours up there, eh) especially those who lost their lives while doing so.
Nephilim, why do you paint yourself as some victim, bravely saying what needed to be said against your opressors, when you are just plain trolling. Either that or you really are this out of touch with reality.
And now you go to the "its commercialised" argument. except you use it wrongly. This isn't like valentines day, and even if it was don't be a jerk going to people and trying to ruin their holiday because you don't want to celebrate it.
Honestly if it was up to me I'd have banned you from the forum, since what you are doing is just so over the top.
what does it say about the state of your nation that a "hey you should actually remember the troops on the day meant for troops" blog actually had to be made? That you'd all let commercialism corrupt it, or willingly let troops do awful things and just call them meanies who you still want to honour? Or holy shit actually justifying it by saying the kids are the same ethnicity/religion as the 9/11 hijackers. Cruelty's ok if it's racially motivated apparently! (Also lollin' at the dude who went off about atheism and how if I really was one I'd be against a religion with suicide bombers; that's not the issue you dolt)
But fine, fine, if it's 'merkuns only it's 'merkuns only. Enjoy your echo chamber. :3
There was a time not too many years ago when a reminder was necessary for some folks. Like I mentioned, you would be hard pressed to find a family that hasn't been affected by this war, now. I still do the annual reminder because there may still be some who need a nudge. The United States is a big country, full of a variety of people. Every now and then we are able to come together for one purpose or another...right after 9/11 there was a lot of flag waving and chest thumping, for example, but under it was a solid current of union among us. Politically we have had some big messes lately, but we are still one nation and one people. We are that way in good part because on several occasions throughout history, some young people went out to ugly places and did ugly jobs that were necessary to keep our nation free and functioning. You want to detract from that because a few incidents. I guess Canada is a free country, too. JU is certainly a "free" cite. So you are entitled to your opinions and free to express them. You seem very angry and a bit narrow but I assume that being a nursing student means you are fairly young and that means...as much as this will hurt you...you have not got the life experience to make you as valid a judge as you deem yourself. I don't mean to dismiss your opinion out of hand, only to qualify it by identifying the fact that in a few years your perspectives will broaden. I hope that as a nurse you are successful in saving lives and easing pain and I hope you never have to live in the world that those young soldiers you hate so much live in. I sincerely hope that when you are up to your elbows in someone else's insides, they are not the insides of your close friends, that the pain they suffer is not the result of some senseless act of terrorism. Thanks for stopping by, it has been interesting.
Young is no excuse for stupidity, narrow mindedness, and downright maliciousness masquaraded as "enlightment".
I know a LOT of young people who don't fall into the logical fallacies he makes. Heck, I am young myself.
This coming from the same age as Nephilim (according to profiles that is).
Me, too. I was making a call on one guy based on his comments. Old don't make ya smart, young don't make ya dumb...but ya gotta go with the averages.
People mourn in different ways. Some have wakes. Why not celebrate the fact that these people did amazing things to allow us the freedoms we enjoy every day?
As for not having the holiday because it might include those who did bad things, guess we shouldn't have Mother's Day or Father's Day because there are certainly horrible parents out there...just ridiculous. Those holidays began as days of mourning and tribute too but have morphed over the years. I see nothing wrong with holidays changing and new traditions being established. The thought behind it is to pay tribute.
You have no point in the context of this thread. If you have a beef with war in general or American soldiers or Americans in general, start your own thread.
You know, there were several threads on here about Mother's Day not long ago. A day meant to celebrate what mother's do for their children year round kind of like how Memorial Day is meant to comemorate what soldiers do for us year round. There have been cases of mothers going crazy and killing their children and mothers arn't always the nicest people in the world, however the day is still there for all those who are good mothers and there are plenty of them.
My point is I don't remember you raving on and on about the Mother's Day threads. It's just you trying to get pissy and spread your propaganda around. Anyways, I am very thankful to all the Veterans out there, especially those who gave the ultimate sacrafice of their own lives while in service, my grandfather was a WWII veteran, my husband is a veteran and I am a veteran. I would gladly serve again if the need arose and they would have me because there are more decent people when it comes down to it in the military than not. We all have our faults and you don't leave them behind when you join any group. If anything the fact that you've seen so FEW incidents such as this in the military, which is been under EXTREME scrutiny by people such as yourself for a long time, while they're all over the news about the general population of a country should tell you something. They ARE exceptional and worthy of praise.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
