Learn to play Minion builds. When Oak has 11 Minions out + grunt wave at lvl 5 with his AE attack speed increase, towers of any kind are cake.

Once again, Oak is not going to be fighting Rook towers on pantheon, and the other generals don't have the boost spell.

lol there are somany people wanting to be more off one dude then more of another so it was bound to happen

the reason why people dont like them is because they have like 2.4k health  which is announying to take down if there is alot off them in a  medium sized areawe should get some tests done

a full aoe/dot  tb  vs a tower rook with his towers in different possitions

I get your point of view, but that doesn't mean there aren't balance problems. The situation has to be looked at realistically and rationally. And really the Erebus nerf comes too soon after the release, we can't even play trouble free online games to get a good sense of the way things really behave to start with, and I don't think anyone has had enough time to really reflect on what is balanced and what isn't. I do suspect that there are balance problems, that is what I think, but I don't actually want to make any changes yet, not until really compelling arguments are made, or something conclusive can be derived from argument/discussion...

But in more direct response to the OP, yeah, I hope they don't pander to the people that complain the most or the loudest, and make premature changes in the future (and I think the erebus nerf is premature). I hope they get the game working and can collect enough data and listen to enough real argument/discussion to come to a real conclusion. Like I said I do think there are balance problems, but that's just what I think...I could very well be wrong.

Erebus needed the nerf quite badly. However apart from that, I think that GPG should wait until it's possible to even define who is a good player and who isn't before taking opinions.

As for tower rooks, frankly, the game is not 1v1 based. Just don't charge in, the mana cost to keep replacing the tower farm is quite high. People who die to tower farms are usually Oak/UB/Erebus who say "I am the king of melee!" and charge in senselessly. Then get boulder rolled while taking 800DPS from towers and then I'm meleeing as well and then you're dead.

I have a very hard time killing rook 1v1, but then again its a teamgame. ( a team game without team-que pantheon ..yet )

What annoys me the most is that Rooks towers don't die when he dies. If our minion armies die with our generals, why should the Rook's towers be an exception?

Besides the official games I've played, I've played plenty of flawless games from 2v2 to 5v5 through GameRanger with friends. People would occassionally bitch about whatever DG did the best, but Erebus is a banned character for anyone but complete noobs (we're talking first / second game ever in their life, here). I asked permission once to play him if there was another Erebus on the other team, I got it, and it ruined the game (went something like 24 kills / 3 deaths or whatever), and then stopped for good.

Now that he's nerfed, I'll ask to play him again, but I agree we had plenty of time to see a nerf was needed for Erebus in particular, because he was so out of line, particularly as he allows aggressive players to play hyper aggressively without being punished, which allows you to pick up kills that other DGs would be unable to get, esp. against weaker players.

I agree with what you are saying, but a lot of other people were having similar experiences too. Plus, this is a diverse group of people ranging from bottom quintile of skill to top quintile of skill, so I do find the argument that Player X can play well against seven demigods, but eats shit when fighting Erebus, but that's not due to any inherent quality of Erebus himself to be a little hollow.

I think there's something to be said for taking a combined approach of theoretical work, lab results (small consistent groups of players), and real world (i.e. 10K+ players) data. I find that the first and second approach pointed to a very strong case for an Erebus nerf, and am convinced the Pantheon aggregate data doesn't tell the whole story, which I have a couple hypotheses for.

I just did a 1v2 on Brothers because of lame matchmaking. I was level 20 they were level 12 and 14 with war rank 9 and mine was 7. Its a big map so I tried to keep both sides covered but they just kept moving in once they got to the cit I managed to hold of the 5 portals of creeps and get massive gold but they pushed in and double bouldered me and my cit was gone in 10seconds.

The rook towers should have 1/3 the HP and have a shortercooldown, or make a minimum gap distance.

I wouldn't even say he's the easiest at all, so much as the most abuseable. I'm probably the single best player out of my friends, albeit there are a few very close to me, which is why Erebus is a problem. I beat an all Erebus team last night, but they were terrible. But when you put a good player behind Erebus, he becomes a nearly unstoppable DG killer. Pre-Nerf Bite was the perfect damage skill: Moderate mana cost, Moderate Damage, 100% Life Steal, Armor Reduction, one of the best slows in the game. Then you have Mist which is an uncounterable potentially permanent defense against all attacks in the game, an AOE stun, a teleport which has massive range and does decent damage, his passive life steal, his passive health regen, and he is the perfect DG killer.

I generally take Cloak of Night with him, which allows you to play a hyper aggressive game and punish any weakness at all. And this is the key to why he is so good. He can farm the worst player on a team and then get too powerful to be killed by anything less than a full health 2v1 or even 3v1. And when you get double / triple teamed, you have three defenses (mist, bat port, cloak port), so you can pretty much never be killed unless you overextend to an extreme extent.

Edit: And even in games with all good players, he was, and I'll stake my reputation on saying still is, a highly competitive choice. But his main flaw before, which I still think has probably not been fully resolved, was magnifying skill differences in a way that ruined public / friendly games.

The thing about mist is that you can't move or heal at all with it up. It's incredibly funny to see an Erebus use mist, because all it means is I just walk out of the cloud and in front of his exit route, and just wait for him to reappear, with less mana and nothing to show for it. Unless you're fighting against Rook or UB (it could be said that it's useful against Regulus, but you usually won't be able to see him when he uses snipe anyway), the move is more likely to get you killed when against someone good then anything.

You don't even need to take it against rook either, just ask OrexxerO. All it takes is some fancy footwork to avoid the hammer... and not being stunned by that god damned rock...

With a full second cast time. Rook's stun is much better.

I'll admit, it is nice. But it costs so much mana that the range and damage are justified.

It's really not that good, I've stopped incorperating it into my builds, stopping at the second level of poisoned blood. Unless someone can show me numbers that say otherwise, the health gain is too low to be worth using.

It is indeed awesome, I'll admit.

I'd put him up there with UB and Reggie as the best DG killers. All three excell at different things in terms of DG killing, and do it in different ways.

To be fair, we want every demigod to be a competitive choice, right?