This map is giving me a lot of trouble. Victory hinges on that gold mine flag, but I keep feeling like certain demigods don't have a hope in hell of actually capturing that flag. The key problem is that the flag is so far away from the towers and mobs. If you have to run while you're out there, it's a LONG way back, and if an enemy demigod moves faster than you it's basically a death sentence. That forces you to use teleport scrolls, but that's not a solution, either. Firstly, if it's interrupted you're dead. Secondly, it's costly, and you have to walk quite a distance to get back to the battlefield afterwards.
If the enemy outruns you and has an interrupt (quite common if they are Sedna, Erebus, or Oak), then you have virtually no chance of escape if you cannot defeat them in a fight. I feel like it's a real uphill fight if you end up with a slower demigod. Even if you can fight off a faster DG, they can run away and you still must take a much greater risk each time you go out to try to take those flags. Are there are any good strategies to to get around this, other than just picking fast demigods?
I don't understand your aversion to teleport scrolls. I almost always pick one up at the beginning of each Crucible game. This game is all about momentum and giving it up to those long walks is too much of a disadvantage compared to the 250g that gets me back in the action fast enough to re-capture that gold in Currency upgrades.
I'm not saying that I don't pick up teleport scrolls; I never said that at all! The only time I don't pick them up at the start of the game is if I lead with a monk idol. What I'm saying is that they don't stop you from dying because they'll just be interrupted.
fast push of the 2 towers and keep on your opponent is the key to victory , makes it really tough for him to catch the gold flag
You're best best from my experience is scoring a kill on the opposing team then both players cap the 2 flags that are there so that you don't risk a fully healed (and with all it's cooldowns) DG teleporting onto your head while you are mid capture. With only 1 DG there to push you should hopefully not take too much damage to your towers.
In skirmish match I played last night this is basically how my partner and I (TB and UB respectively) turned it around against a regulus + something I am now blanking on . They also sort of wasted their monetary advantage by getting priests very early but no other support to push and we were able to outlevel them fairly quickly.
A later game (for some reason I played crucible a lot last night) something similr happened (minus the priests) and after scoring a kill and some decent damage on the other DG we were able to turn the tides and control those 2 flags.
Although this idea seems sound to me (and it did work a few times), I do not have enough experience on the map to say that it is the only or the best option.
Last time I played this map with a pro player it was me as Sedna vs. UB. He was faster the enitre game by a bit, but sedna was really able to hold her ground and win in 1v1 even if she rarely killed him.If the enemy outruns you and can defeat you in 1v1, I would say forget the flag and grind out tons of xp on the creeps. If you can get a good level advantage you can bully them around even if they have a bit more gold.If your enemy outruns you, can defeat you 1v1, and can outgrind you in levels by simultanious holidng down the flags and creep lane, the problem is most likely not the map.
you dont need to control the flag so much as you need to control access to the two flags on that section of the map.
As a Tower/Slam rook my entire goal revolves around getting a tower farm or tower line set up to utilize my defense towers as well as cut off access to the gold mine and cooldown flags. if you can keep this strategy up while your teamates take the flags then the opposing team cannot get to them without all of them going to push through my towers, which is fine because you can just rebuild them when they go through and rebuild the same tower farm.
Then you have them trapped in to use teleport scrolls or try to fight their way out.
get the flag lock it go kill creeps if you see some 1 go for the flag when the lock is gone run or teleport lock it and run back to farm.
even if it only works 1 time you still got that full 45-90 sec of the flag in your pocket.
gotta agree with Rivaris.
flag locks are crucial to holding that flag through opposition. you know you're gonna have to fall back to your towers/creeps pretty regularly to regen a bit, or wait for an ally to show up and help out. the flag lock buys you 45 seconds in the clear to do just that.
So, what I'm hearing is that there is basically no direct solution to the problem. If I'm a slower demigod than my opponent and I end up in a fight near the gold mine flag, I must win because I have no chance of escaping.
I have an extreme aversion to simply allowing my enemy to control a flag, much less a valuable gold mine flag. However, it seems there just isn't a solution to the massive risk you're taking to capture it. Pushing and killing are both unreliable; I've won games where my team has done neither throughout the early game and turned things around, which is why I feel like this strategy is similarly unreliable if you have a speed disadvantage out on the field.
As for capture locks, I'm well aware of their usefulness, but it doesn't deal with the primary issue of the huge risk I'm taking to capture the flag in the first place, it just increases the reward upon success.
If you cant get the gold flag early which can happen certain combo's just have a hard time getting it concentrate on the 20% xp flag and get 10% xp upgrade in citadel and kill creeps as fast as possible and get the towers down 300 gold a piece. If you outlevel them you better skills should make you strong enough to then challenge and over take them. I have been behind in a lot of games on crucible and have made huge comebacks this way. Even better if they feed you early priest for extra xp and gold.
Also remember My two favorite DG's Regulus and QoT are awesome farmers and can level rather fast.
Personally I've taken to Erebus on Crucible because he's awesome at holding flags and killing enemies that stray too far from their tower line. Plus after a bite, no one outruns him, giving me a free getaway. However, I don't feel any map should be DG-specific, which is why I'm looking for more generic strategies.
Another effective Strategy I employ on this map is fight the creep wave before the towers so my creeps get to go straight for their towers. Very effective to keep opposing demigods away from gold mine and worrying about their towers. Regulus and rook are great for this by tower builds and mines. Wand of speed is a must item when employing this strategy
Erebus owns this map. With Bat Swarm he can blink across the gap from the healing crystal to the middle. He can also teleport across the gap between the gold mine and celerity flags, or from the middle to the XP flag. Bat swarm oooownz
ant that is exactly where i would call it an exploit. the fact that erebus is able to do that just guarantees a win for his team. there is no way the other team could stop him from doing it. it's simply unfair and i don't think that the developers intended that.
NERF!!!
Capture locks are your friend!
I played a crucible match the other day and dropped a capture lock on the gold mine flag and ran away from an enemy coming to stop me. The foolish UB stayed on the flag for the full 45 second duration waitign for it to unlock while my partner and i pushed back his forces quite heavily.
If you capture it, lock it up so you can hold it that much longer. Even if the enemy isn't an idiot and waits for it, it garuntees that they reduce pressure to an extent.
Just make those gaps impassable? Duh. And are you talking about Warpstone (5500g), Cloak of Elfinkind (12000g) and Cloak of Night (2000 favor, gen only)? Yeah, totally friggin fair.
EDIT: Also, Cloak of Elfinkind is a great artifact, for more than its teleport power. 12000g is a pretty good deal just for the 15% dodge and 20% movement speed; the warp ability is a bonus. The cloak of night is also quite good, for the +4 mana/second. The only other favor item with +mana/second is the Assassin-only Essence of Magic. The cost is largely irrellevant - play for long enough, and you'll have mroe favor than you know what to do with. You can only buy Anklets of Speed once, after all.
Eh... it's not such a huge deal. The huge amount of towers there, and the fact that any smart opponent will be ready to teleport back and beat your pale ass into the ground discourages it. Erebus has a very hard time surviving against 2 light towers, two arrow towers, and a demigod at the same time.
Back on topic: sometimes a useful strategy on Crucible is to buy two tele scrolls at the beginning (or Amulet of Teleportation) and tele to your middle towers. If the opposing team isn't doing it, you grab the middle flags and get level 2. At the same time the rest of your team heads to the middle to block access. Once you're done you head back to the middle to help em out. Tower Rook can mostly block the lane by himself.
Otherwise if the flags are captured, the best way is to wait for them to retreat from the middle to heal so one can capture without being chased (which is not that bad if you can take em on, like with UB).
Once again, I have to ask what items you guys are using to teleport. The warpstone and cloak of elvenkind lack the range to get over that gap, so other demigods (even if you can shell out thousands of gold for these items) cannot duplicate what Erebus can do. Erebus' skill is also invaluable for getting in and out of battle, since he is no longer bounded by the normal choke points of the map, enabling him to circumvent enemy lines and steal flags from under their noses. It's not unbeatable, but it's very powerful and no one else can do it.
I also have to reiterate my problem, because people are giving me "solutions" that don't solve the issue I'm having. I'm well aware that you should spend a TP at the start of the game to quickly grab those flags, and I know the value of flag locks. My problem relates to the risk of leaving the vicinity of your towers. A fast demigod runs virtually no risk; he can just run away if he gets into a spot of trouble. If a slow demigod gets caught out there against Sedna or Erebus, he's got to beat off the enemy or he's dead. If he teleports, he's stunned. If he runs, he gets chased and killed long before he gets back to towers.
My problem is basically that some DG's just run a massive risk whenever they stray too far from their tower lines at low levels (8 and below). Crucible basically necessitates you doing so or else you give up a lot of gold and war rank. Locking flags is irrelevent if I run a very high risk of dying every time I attempt it.
So far, the only valid solution I've heard so far (and I'm applying it) is if I'm a slower demigod I just don't even attempt to take those flags, I try to push and go for them if the enemy DG dies or runs back for a heal. Flag locks are well and nice, but given how long it takes a demigod to meander down to that gold mine flag most of the lock's duration will have expired by the time he gets there anyways. Locking that experience flag and that celerity flag, sure, but the gold flag is just too remote to merit the lock IMO.
i dont know which crucible you are playing, but the one i know doesnt have any towers near the gold mine flag..
also its not that easy to "beat his pale ass into the ground". sure you could buy tele scrolls to get there in an instant, but just the fact that you have do that and he hasnt makes it unfair. also if he was afraid because he possibly could lose the fight he could just bat swarm back into the base after beating you up a little, recharge at the crystal and come back the same way. you stand no chance! all the other chars at least have to spend gold to do so, which in fact is very difficult if erebus just always takes that gold flag, and you surely also want those armor/damage/speed items. so what about it? just imbalanced -> exploit
Darvin, I think your main problem is that you've resigned yourself to being a "slow Demigod", at least from what I can tell from these posts. Even if you're playing as Rook or QoT or one of the Demigods with a low initial move speed, you can still get pretty zippy with only a few items to upgrade your speed--particularly the Wand of Sped for a quick dash down to capture the Gold flag, or to run away after locking it. Remember that players of "fast" demigods like UB have gotten *used* to being the fast kid on the block, I play UB all the time and honestly I almost never get the speed items anymore because I'll already have an advantage if the enemy doesn't. You can take advantage of this complacency by speeding up yourself--any increase is better than none, and it's surprising how much difference one item can make. Plus, if you invest in +speed items, if your opponent is going to counter by buying them himself you've just thrown a monkey wrench into whatever plans he had going, and nobody wants to spend 1k for boots when they're busy saving for a Heart, etc. I know that as UB it's always been a lethal or kill-losing surprise to see a "slow" DG jetting around the map, particularly if they've got a Wand, which is incredibly cheap and has a relatively low cooldown. Alternately, you could partner up with a "fast" demi and agree that you'll hold the line in the center and top while they risk their neck down below. You can either play to your strengths or compensate for your weaknesses, but don't feel like you're fated to be "slow" in a game that allows this much modularity of your character.
Which DG are you talking about, by the way? Hope these suggestions have helped a bit, other than that other folks have said pretty much everything I would've. Good luck, mate.
Any Demigod can do that. Erebus can just do it without using favour items or artifacts.
Also, each base in Crucible has two arrow towers and two light towers near the portal flag. As for the gold mine flag, just keep it locked. Besides, bats cost 1250. That's a lot of mana. If he uses bats to get to you, chances are he won't be able to go to far without extending. Especially since he has no minions to back him up(unless he expends even more to summon minions). Once he runs out of mana, he had better run. Just be waiting for him.
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