What I did tonight with the QoT worked out fairly well. Went all minnion and held up lanes while others pushed. When they pushed and I went around and ninja'd undefended lanes. Unclean Beast ate my f'n lunch though. Even with my shield full minnions including preists I died before I could a teleport off. Oak was no different destroyed me also. You either support other demigods, block lanes, or go around and attack lanes. Trying to attack any other demigods 1v1 will just lead to failure.

Queen of Thorns is the most overpowered general in the game, and Erebus is the most overpowered Assassin.

From what I hear, level 4 Unclean Beast venom spit does more DPS than max level uproot to buildings, which is just silly. Of course in this case the change that should be made isn't to nerf Spit by making it unable to target buildings, because that would make UB nearly useless against buildings, which would be extremely detrimental to his ability to help the team at all other than by stealing kills from them--which nobody wants.

What should be done is that Uproot needs a large buff, either in straight damage or in some other way. Maybe a maxed level of it could target all buildings in an area, meaning it could be great for lategame pushes in maps where there are a lot of clustered towers--after all, Beast's spit ability can sometimes hit multiple towers once you max it out, even if it's only for a bit of damage, so why shouldn't our designated Siege character be able to do something similar? That would really reinforce the Queen's role as a terrifying siege machine and give her some of the lategame viability she obviously needs.

To get a better idea of what I mean, it might help to remember the Farseer's Earthquake ultimate from WC3 (the actual game, no less, not even a DOTA comparison!) as an example of AOE building damage. Heck, one way to buff Uproot might be to have it apply a snare  or DoT to Demigods nearby the tower, which could help her against people who just try to run back and hide behind them, one of the most common current strategies that it would be cool to mix up with a good Queen on the team.

Having not played the Queen myself these are just speculative suggestions, what do you guys think?

I actually never even take a level in shamblers, they seem to do so little damage, and their area of effect base attack doesn't seem to damage most things it passes through, and neither does the AoE from Mulch. I would only ever really use them for Mulch if I desperately needed it end game or something, but usually by that point in the game an opponent will kill them with an AoE and it would be quicker to just shield myself while backing off rather than stopping and summoning and mulching and altogether wasting a lot of mana.

I usually just start off with Bramble shield to make sure no one turns me into easy gold early game, then I grab two ranks in groundspikes to start farming creeps. After that I solely put points into Bramble Shield, Ground Spikes, Spike Wave (And maybe Uproot if there is a tower Rook on the other team because the game often lasts a while versus one built that way, and at level 15 Uproot becomes delicious versus Rook's towers even if it is a bit lacking versus normal buildings). Now unless you take the Uproot route you will have skill points left over, which I put into attributes because being able to do more damage to someone once they're -armored is fantastic, and can come as a shock to a lot of players when QoT is suddenly hitting you for 400s because of -armor.

 The great thing about QoT is that as long as you switch straight back to closed form after you fire off Ground Spikes and Spike Wave (provided she actually responds and switches forms...) you are VERY difficult to kill anytime before end-game because you can usually refresh shield and make your escape into the towers before the enemy can finish you off, unless of course you spent 0 gold on mana items in which case you're doomed to feed the enemy anyway.

I agree with Tototot's general points, though I don't go minion build at all and just put points into shield, ground spikes and spike wave + shamblers for mulching purposes.

Her real strength in my mind is survivability and ability to hold flags + not being particularly item dependent.  I usually get the mana hats initially, speed boots, then Heart of Life when I can afford it.  After that, I don't really buy anything else and focus on being the team's citadel-upgrader.  Combined with her ability to hold flags, I've found nearly every game I've been in our team gets giants out well before the opposition.  At that point, shield yourself, capture their base-portals when no-one's looking and capture lock them.  This is basically all I do with QoT late game since she can easily capture flags in the middle of towers, combined with assisting allies with shield + slow on enemy DGs.

i play Queen the same way that Tototot does.

the build's skill point distribution is as follows, skills listed in roughly order of priority to level up.

1. Bramble Shield (4 ranks)

2. Mulch Shambler (3 ranks)

3. Summon Shambler (4 ranks, usually only go up to rank 3)

4. Entourage (3 ranks)

for equipment you want the following:

1. Mana Regen!!! mana is life, its hard to die if you can cast Mulch (and then resummon the Shamblers) and Shield.

 - get Vlemish Faceguard first, then Plenor Crown. later, if you need to open up equipment slots, sell em both and get a Hungarling's Crown.

- buy mana potions. robusts are more efficient than combats but require some planning to use, combats will save your bacon.

- get a Heart of Life. its good for everyone but especially good for mana hogs like Queen.

2. buy the Idols!

- Queen is a general that actually plays like a general. your damage dealing ability is kinda terrible by itself. but when you've got 6 Idol Summons and 4 Shamblers trucking around with you you can actually hurt guys. get the priests first then the cannons then the minotaurs.

- once you've got priests and cannons you can start wrecking towers very easily. the way you do this is by sending in Shamblers first to attract the tower, then you and the rest of the army goes in . don't stand next to the shamblers since towers usually have splash damage. generally you want to order the Shamblers to stand right next to the tower so when you Mulch them the explosion hits the tower.

3. get the armor items that also boost your minions.

- people complain that minions die too easily, they really don't, its just that they need stat upgrades like anything else. Godplate is uber if you can afford it but if not Plate of the Crusader is also excellent.

the advantage to this approach is that it completes itself fairly early on. at level 12 you've got Bramble Shield IV, Summon Shambler III, Mulch Shambler II, and Entourage III. realistically speaking though you've reach close to full power at level 8 once you've got Summon Shambler III and Bramble Shield III.

peaking early like this should effect your playstyle. you've got that period between levels 8 and 12 where you're much more powerful than most other DGs and this is when you should try to put the game away. at this stage your minions will be totally lethal to enemy DGs and they (your enemies) won't be able to do enough to DPS to put a dent in your as long as you've got mana around for Shield/Mulch/Summon.

later in the game you should work to develop Ground Spikes (levels 13-16 will max it, can get Goddess of Thorns at level 17) to help take care of those end-game big clusters of creeps that tend to accumulate. the armor debuff alone would be worth it, and can severely compromise enemy DG's caught in the area as well.

but the simple fact is taht late game your defenses are now just bonuses and not enough to keep you safe from a high level DG killer like Erebus, Oak, Beast, or Regulus. you'll have to fall fully into the General role and concentrate on completing map objectives while you let your team-mates handle enemy DGs. its fairly simple for a high level Queen to go and cap every flag on the map or knock down as many towers as she wants to. you never lose your ability to totally dominate creeps and towers.

She is not UP, she is just a bit harder to learn than some of the other heroes.

QoT is my favourite hero and i don't want her buffed. Maybe lower the cooldown on uproot, otherwise she is fine (i mean perfect).

Awesome feedback guys. I really do appreciate it. I think maybe I was falling into the misconception of trying to treat her like my wonderful Oak or UB, which she is most definately not. I try some of those builds and strategies you reccomended. I am happy to see that I am not the only one that finds her lacking in her defined "Seige" role. Thanks.

I play QoT as a unkillable tank/support demigod, i've got 15 hours played as QoT atleast and find this is the best way to play her.

End game ive got full bramble shield, thorn spikes, 2 or 3 ranks in shamblers, 2 or 3 ranks in mulch, anything else is really just preference and of course Goddess of Thorns or w/e its called.

By end game ive got a Heart of Life, Groffling Plate, God Plate, Hungarling helm, plaenor battle crown, and either the bulwark (-25% dmg) or the 15% speed boots.

For favor item I usually go w/ the swift trinket for 15% run.

By now QoT is unkillable, I have very little trouble even with 2v1 Regulus/TB in defensive form.

Sorry I threw this post together pretty hastly if anyone has questions just ask:D

PS, I usually only get the priest minions, the rest are meh.

Another note, I usually have heart of life by either level 6 or 7. If you get it early game you can win any 2v2 or 3v3 for your team.

My AIM: PufTehMajikDragN

-Foreshadowed

all minion build is totally viable for QoT, and is imo the only one who should get minion items.

Shamblers do way more damage any any other minion, especially with entourage.

Get extra hp and armor for minions. If your minions are dying to AoE spells then they are way too weak.

Get attribute bonuses. These amount to huge increases in the power of your minions.

Don't get + damage minion items, they are too small of a bonus to be effective, even multipled by 8 minions.

Just get priests and ranged minions to keep all of your support ranged.

Only get shield 1 until late game. It does not improve that well rank after rank.

Use mulch shambler as much as possible, since it's the best heal in the game. It also has an insanely long range, despite what a previous poster said.

Don't worry too much about mana with this build, since shield 1 and mulch are cheap, and your only real constant cast spells. I've found a planar crown works just fine for me.

Ok you obviously didn't pick up the sarcasm, I called erebus the most overpowered assassin because that's what he is, he's the best assassin in the game and they had the nerve to give him idols on top of that.  I'm not a troll, I'm willing to back up my statement, I've played more then a dozen 2v2's as those 2 generals and never even had a close game.  I would love to be proven wrong in-game but I highly doubt that's possible.

What's the difference between compost lvl 1 and compost lvl 3 ? I don't see any.

I'm a big time QoT player as well, and I think she's easily one of the stronger heroes if built right. First off, spikes is one of the best abilities in the game IMO (not quite on the level of erebus' bite, but still very good) I think what people fail to take into account is that spikes doesn't just mean that you're doing more damage. It lowers their armour, so your minions, as well as the random creeps on the map, and your allied heroes are all doing increased damage. On top of that, it has decent damage straight up. This, combined with shield, gives her the best attrition of any demigod. One on one, she's got the best survivability, as well as damage decent enough to push all but the toughest eberus players back. Another important thing to remember is that you're one of only 2 heroes with a ranged basic attack. This really lets her dominate a lane early game against basically every hero if played right, because you sit back and hit them from afar.

If they aggro towards you, move QoT back and let your minions (I go for shamblers and monks) damage them on the way through. Keep running till they  give up, and then turn right around and start harassing again. Her shield also lets her basically ignore UB's spit, making her very good at holding flags against agressive capping UB builds.

Part of her siege power comes from combining spikes with waves of creeps, minions and allies. I'm used to teaming up in 2v2 games with a mate of mine who plays Oak, and frankly, the combination of spike and pentinence lets you push a tower in no time flat, and can see an enemy demigod fall in even less time.

As far as build goes, I'm surprised to see so many people supporting mulch shamblers. IMO, this ability is completely redundant. QoT is quite starved for skill points, needing 9 of her 20 just to get the all important godess of thorns. Not to mention you wont often get games going past level 16 if you're playing agressively enough, so it's even more imparitive that you have the right build.

In general, spikes should be your priority. The less supported you keep enemy assassins in the creep lanes, the less they can do to you. In general, I find that Generals > Assassins when played by skilled players, because they have a lot more efficient support skills that help keep them alive, or give them the advantage. Not to mention their summoned minions can survive most nukes, and monks keep you in battle longer. The less your opponent can do, the higher level gap you get over them, as you farm the lanes. this, supported by your shield, should keep you going (given the aid of a couple monks, of course) for a lot longer than your opponent is able to sit in lane. So the three abilities you pretty much NEED are: Spikes, Shield, Shamblers. I generally max all of these as soon as possible.

Shamblers might seem 'average' but the more minions you surround yourself with, the higher your ambient damage is, and as an added bonus, the more 'sponge' you have when pushing towers, and running from chasing demigods.
Between maxing these and Godess of thorns, you have a couple of points to spend. I generally get 1 level in spike wave for the slow, if my enemies are getting away from me, or just go for entourage and/or the + stats.

Items:
Items are important to keep the queen going right from the start. Generally It's all about defense, as you'll be going for an offensive build right off the bat, with the spikes being priority, so you have to have something to keep you going. Generally I either go both of the first two armours and my ally takes monks, or I take monks. Generally I prefer the earlier, so that I can hold off for bishops later (I find their survivability invaluable for fleeing in later game, to compensate for no mulch )

The most important thing to do next is get your mana base up. I suggest either go pelnor battle crown and vinling, or just take the heart if that suits your fancy more. I think the attraction of the hats over the heart is that if you DO get caught out on low mana, chances are you'll be able to get away, whereas with the heart, you have to rely more on good prediction to get out of hairy situations. (also it's a bit more expensive). Late game, if i'm getting killed, I stack health items, replacing my early armours with Grofling and Godplate (if I have enough) and just attempt to stall the enemy by sitting on their portals, and then porting to the otehr side at the first sign of trouble or if I have a few kills under my belt, and level advantage, I stack speed (I always take speed favour item when favour is enabled). This works especially well for me because, being allied with Oak, your movement speed actually gets quite silly with surge of faith.

You have to remember with Queen of Thorns that she is a roadblock, who can be quite an issue if you ignore her. So you have to play to take the map to your advantage. If you're having problems with assassins, sit in lanes where you can easily get to important flags where assassins wont get any minion support (like the goldmine flag in crucible) and push, push, push! I can't stress enough the importance of an agressive game. Force the opponents to spend more time and resources than they want to trying to counter you, because funnily enough. Most of the time when they're actually getting somewhere, you can just run away and live to talk about it, and your ally's probrably made some good headway elsewhere on the map if they arent a complete newb.

I could go on for another 5 pages on how to use her in ganks, lanes, portals, which flags are important for you, which maps she's more suited to, and about a billion other points on why she's easily one of the better demigods (and why i'm so madly in love with her) but I'm sure it's enough to just try to get through this much. And Kudos to anyone who reads this through! I hope it helps you with your games using the Queen