Excluding the networking issues and bugs, heres my analysis of the game currently and how to improve it.Hero Critiques
Unclean Beast:
Logic:
The issue With Beastial Wrath is that more often than not you end up getting stunned. When you are not stunned, your often times casting Venom Spit or Fowl Grasp. This causes the ability to be fairly worthless if stunned for 2 seconds, and your casting abilities for another 2 seconds. This leaves 3 seconds of attacks, assuming you are within melee range. If you manage to fight in melee range for a full 7 seconds, then the move becomes worthwhile, but between getting stuned, slowed, and being unable to reach them in melee, the move is lackluster in comparison to others.
Torch Bearer:
Logic:Deep Freeze is worthless for a hybrid spec with fire, it requires frost moves to shatter, and thus is based on being utilized for fire and ice. Each effect consumed deals 325 damage, and getting a 3x shatter can be a bit difficult. Frost Nova must be used first since it lasts 5 seconds, then rain of ice lasting 10 seconds, and then into shatter. If the TB gets stunned before it for 3 seconds, that leaves 2 seconds + cast time delay / lag. Its doable, but fairly tight and unable to be done if you get stunned twice.
Rook:
Lord Erebus:
Logic:Next to be added. Main logic behind Bite, currently at the max rank it is 595 mp. This is an insanely low cost move, and thus It seems to need to be increased. I'll compare it to Sedna's heal, and TB fireball. The cooldown I would increase primarily for the benefit of the heal. If the heal was reduced, there is not a need for reducing the cooldown.
Regulus:
Sedna:
Currently with talents Sedna has +48 Hp/sec and a heal. Converting the one from hp to mp would allow her to heal more with her actual heal, and would generate hp per second much less, in total 24 per second instead of 48. By converting her other hp per second to mp per second, she would be healing more with her castable, cd heal vs. passive healing. This would require her to stop running around, stop to heal, and put her main heal on cooldown. Raising the mana cost on heal by 150 mp would also help to make sure this mp gain is not too powerful.
The other major change would be reducing pounce's damage to 700. While this seems fairly strong of a nerf, the buff to Counter Healing helps to even it out.
Currently priest healing:
Rank 1200 health to non-demigods10% of max demigod health.
Rank 4:290 health to non-demigods15% of max demigod health.
Oak:
Oak currently can be fairly powerful if he gets consistant hits on a target, and is able to chase them for fairly long periods of time. He is also very strong "post death". His aoe healing move is very powerful, and his shield is very strong as well. His weakness is his damage is fairly weak, and his nukes are not very powerful. Rally being so late in the tree, it seems fairly weak at that stage in the game. Killing a demigod should not happen very often, but when it does, and it only heals for 1000 hp over 5 seconds it seems a bit weak for a move so late in the tree. His spirits I have yet to see used as a gamebreaker, and thus the +15% increase should help to even the playing field. The amplification of damage on Penitance is the biggest buff. While it is not a huge difference it allows him and everyone else to be dealing a great deal more to a target. Currently one of the main problems with his shield is a quick burst being cast as your shield is ending. Due to this problem, having a 3 second decrease in damage allows him to prevent this.
Queen of Thorns:
The Queen of Thorns has by far the weakest nukes in the game. As such, it appears that she should be heavily minion based, or support. Her absorption shield is very powerful, but that is the only support move she has. Thus, minions are her greatest strength, and it seems as if it should be buffed for survivability and a slight bit of damage. Minions currently die from AOE fairly quickly, everytime I run into combat my minions end up fully dead, shamblers without Entourage end up dead as well. With the buff the shamblers are able to survive a bit longer, they can be useful but still are lacking damage since the Queen's nukes are not very strong currently. In order to use the Queen's nukes the Queen is forced to switch forms which has a casting delay. Due to this problem, her damage is needed to be delt by her minions. The options would be to buff her minions or buff her damage attacks. Buffing the damage attacks would lose the uniqueness of the Queen, and thus it would be better to buff the minions.
Improvements:
Needing better descriptions:
Balance:
General Heroes:
Forces of Light vs. Dark:Light = Regulus, Rook, Oak, SednaDark = Unclean Beast, Torchbearer, Lord Erebus, Queen of ThornsDark > Light - reasoning as follows:
New Content:
Oak and Unclean Beast do NOT need buffing.
How many games sir?
How long of a period were the games tested sir?
Was there a control?
What model was used for a control, and why do you justify using it.
Were the teams 100% even in skill?
Were the teams arranged between players who know every single advantage inside out, with full comprehensibility of their demigods?
Who played?
How many different people played?
What were team sizes?
How many different games were played in each separate size?
What maps were played?
How many different times was each map played?
Was map balanced accounted for?
Was gear factored into this balance?
What gear was used on each demigod?
How many different gear setups were used?
What team combinations were tested?
What logic was used to justify each match up of demigods to conclude any imbalances?
Who are you to say that said match ups justify perfect balance class vs class?
Who are you?
Do you believe yourself to be a messiah doing god's work for stardock, finding all of these imbalances none of us simpletons could ever hope to do?
Why are we so inferior to you?
Can I have your shoe?
What time is it?
What time is it now?
What's todays date and what significance does that have on these questions?
What is the time now?
Are you jesus, or a lunatic with a messiah complex?
CHICKEN
OR
THE
EGG
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY
And Post Mortem is completely useless in DGvDG fights, while Ooze is SUPER DUPER useful in DGvDG fights.
Oh, also, Ooze melts creeps. Nearly forgot. :]
Considering this is your first suggestion, I'm going to assume the rest are just as bad.
One other thing to consider is that for the most part this is not a Demigod vs Demigod game, so for abilities like Bite you need to take into account that you can't use it on buildings - wherase abilites like pounce you can.
There is much more to balance than 1v1 demigod fights. This is why balance is such a tricky thing
qft
I did not realise realise the attack speed reduction was that huge. But for the cost of 50 hp/s to deal 140 hp/sec in damage, the aoe comes at a price. In terms of fighting creeps, the plague from post mordom spreads like crazy, and has a larger aoe range than Ooze. In knowning that the attack speed reduction is that huge, it makes up for the cost. Ooze is a fairly good choice between post mordom with this new insight, and I'll revise my original post accordingly.
there's a lot i disagree with, so i'll just go with what i agree with..
i agree with:
- bite: i think the MP cost is fine, but the cooldown cycles a little bit too quickly.
- sedna's minions are way too costly in terms of mana (for starters)
- QoT siege abilities seem lackluster
- shambler rank 4 needs to add something more.
- bestial wrath seems fairly weak for early and midgame
- minions should proc demigod specific abilities when killing mobs (see divine justice, for one).
- interface polish is needed overall.
Erm.. I'm sorry but I think you have a total disconnect with the balance of the game.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees this too. But I'll break it down. I'm also glad to see people can see how many of these are so wrong, yet there aren't really complaints about what i've posted at http://forums.demigodthegame.com/348135 (though I've posted much more conservative things.). So gives me some.. reassurance that people actually read these and can see what balance suggestions are good or not!
Where to start..
In 7 seconds your gain is another 4 hits of damage. You only lost 0.5 of a hit. This is about 60% more damage.
At level 1 your gain is 1.25 hits. This assumes 1 attack per second. Not as good as maxed, but that's just the nature of the skill, it requires investment.
So how is it useless? You have to adjust how you play with it, not want it changed to how you play.
This is not a SLIGHT nerf at ALL. You're talking about cutting the damage by 40%. That'd make it even worse than beta(about the same DPS, but less debuff)
Not to mention, most Demigods having a 7 second cooldown skill is good for gameplay since it requires more input from the users. You have to keep track of your cooldowns so you can use them the most at the right times within a fight, not dump and autoattack.
I think what i've suggested for bite would work well. It's a bit in between beta and how it is now.
Sedna would go form slightly too good to unusable with your suggestions, save for inner grace being made insanely good.
Cool... you think the best hero tied with Sedna is the worst I think it'd be funny if I played against you. :/
It reduces it by 1500. 1250 would be less.
Stuns for 2 seconds
Reduces armor by 800, slows by 30% for 3 seconds
Yeah a 30% slow for 3 seconds is the same as a 2 second stun.
Maybe I agree with 1 or 2 things, but I'm not going to bother saying them. Easier to just say it's all bad since the majority is.
TB has range and can combo with other abilities for a lot of damage.
Rook has stun and Slam does AoE.
Erebus heals as well as giving a big debuff.
Reg has huge range.
Sedna has interrupt.
Oak interrupts and deals a huge debuff.
QoT Ground Spikes is AoE and removes armor. Spike Wave slows.
Lowed the cooldown listed from 12 -> 9 seconds, removed Spike Wave. More changes to come later.
You're doing gods work son. I'm sure Stardock is reading this and taking notes.
Foul Grasp Vs Bite
Foul Grasp is not primarily a life draining ability like bite is. Foul Grasp incapacitates the demigod and is used to stop teleports/potion or the casting of spells, in that sense it is more of a Mass Charm ability with a minor bonus of healing you.
It is not meant to be used to heal UB, but more to stop actions.
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OP, Very nice formating and it's all well organized but IMO you are missing specific examples as to WHY any specific change should be made.
How much data have you gathered? I.E. how many games have you played? Have you done any 1v1 testing trying to try out specific examples?
All of this information would add more weight to your suggestions/arguments for change, which overall I think are off the mark.
My 2 cents from my play experiances (which are not vast and need more testing) is that Oak is very very strong as is, if played correctly and can really make Erebus's life hard.
-Jara
If you are going to nerf bite, it needs to be useable on bulidings like many abilities of other players.... although personally I would rather most abilities (punce, spit etc) NOT allowed to be used on buildngs.
why does bite need to be usable on buildings even if nerfed? pentinence isn't. should it be just because bite gets to work on buildings as a result of a nerf?
and many abilities working on buildings is a good thing, because there's so many buildings per map.
Well people are comparing it directly to abilities like fireball, which works on buildings. So if you really want to balance everything then you can't just nerf it, you need to make it useable on buildings too. Anyhow that was my point, bite shouldn't be nerfed as much as some people say just because of other DG's abilites.
Also buildings play a huge part in the game, most games are conquest. People keep forgetting about the objective in the game and that it is a team game, and just keep crying for nerfs based on 1v1 battles.
+100 internets if you can guys which Demigod THIS guy favors.
Because it is SO not obvious /sarcasim
Actually I play Sedna and Oak most of the time, i find them tougher than Erebus but he is still pretty good
I just hate people yelling nerf when there clearly is no real balance testing going on. People that make serious suggestions often spend hours analyzing the characters in equal conditions, rather than just blurting out nerfs because they can't figure out how to counter something.
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