Two giants of Sci-fi, Halo and Star Wars, who would win?
Now, first here are some ground rules for this: No massive time line cross over that so many people seem to like. None of the everyone on Star Wars gangs up on Halo, not because it is just unfair, but also why would the rebels join up with the Empire? And everthing must be backed up by facts from both sides. I suggest anyone that posts here should read up on both sides.
Let the battle begin!
I would like to point out that the range for turbolasers on the Venator class SD are 10 light minutes(179,875,474.8 kilometers or 111,769,438.23 miles)and these were pretty standard for the pre-galactic civil war timeline. Of course this may or may not be affected by targetting data but as a basline range it seems to be similar or greater than Halo weapons.
Edit: Just found this: The weapon can fire a thin beam of extremely powerful and energetic particles. It is possible to predict when it was about to fire because it typically charges the beam up before firing. The beam has an effective range of over 50,000 kilometres, longer even than that of a UNSC MAC gun.
This is in reference to the energy projector, it would seem that the effective range is quite less than you previously stated. Its ok though you do seem to be quite outnumbered on the Halo side, tis inevitable to make a mistake when so sorely pressed, though you have been doing a good job so far.
Actually a MAC round has effectively limitless range in a vacuum. The only limit is the ability to calculate the range, which is more than simple for a smart A.I.
The forerunners used dreadnaughts that are 37654 tonnes. The Key ships, which they possessed entire fleets of are 14 kilometers high making them comparable to an SSD. The weapons are of unknown power but in all likely hood it could destroy an SSD very quickly as the covenant could only tap into 10% of its total power, which is enough to move High Charity. Several Key ships together could cause a star to collapse which was used to slow the flood.
The forerunners would be able to wipe out the empire in no time. They have an unmached ability to coordinate attacks and use millions of robots thanks to their A.I.s. Their A.I.s did not have simulated emotions but actually were sentient beings. The contender class A.I. could control entire fleets of ships, and make jump calcualtions for all of them in fractions of a second.
Sorry, I'v had other stuff to do. Thank you for correting my mistake. I meant to put 100000 kilometers instead of miles, thank you, I just hate putting up info thats incorret up. I should have double checked it at Halopedia, I just did it from memory. Thanks, I just hate putting up incorret info.
Ten light minutes for the Ventor, that would pose a threat if the Covenant ships didn't move. But this would be really only good against large stations like High Charity, large stations just make juicy targets.
Now lets take a look at ground forces now. The Scarab walker is the largest ground unit the Covenant have, easily blasting AT-AT's and escorts away with it's massive main cannon and taking out any speeders with either one or two plasma cannons depending on the model. Wrath mortar tanks are the standard tank unit for the Covenant ground forces armed with a massive plasma launcher, when the plasma impacts all enemies within 20 meters is destroyed, also armed with a pair of auto turrets or one manned turret depending on model. Anti-Air Warth's are a variety of the standard Warth armed with burst-fire Fuel Rod cannons, though it would be better used in an anti-vehicle duty, armed with a manned turret. Ghost hover sleds are a standard Covenant light scout and combat vehicle armed with a pair of rapid plasma cannons, it hovers a couple feet above the ground, used best against infantry. Spectres are the counter to the UNSC Warthog, armed with a plasma cannon. I will do air craft later.
This has been a UNSC transmission.
As for the Scarab vs ATAT thing, I'd have to ask whether it was a Halo 2 Scarab or a Halo 3 Scarab. If it were a Halo 2 Scarab, the Scarab would win hands down. Its armor could take a HUGE amount of a beating and still function properly.
Just a thought: Who would win in a fight? Boba Fett or Master Chief?
Like I said a lot would depend on the fire control systems and then how fast the turbolaser bolt was traveling, one would assume light speed but you know what they say about assumptions.
And lets go with the H2 Scarab to go with the time line here. Just post Yavin and start of H2. This just seems to me to be the best time line to use, it just helps balance things between the Empire and Covenant.
Yeah, that would be interesting. Fett's advantages would be his jet pack and the weapons system built into his armor, such as the flame thrower and the large missile on his jet pack. I think he has a missile there, I can't remeber exactly which book, but he was helping Han escape from his cousin during one of the stories with Center Point in it. If there's anything I missed point it out please.
The Master Chief's advantages would be his armor and shield system, and Cortana who could help keep an eye out for anything the Chief might miss, and then there's his greatest advantages which even the Force would not have a chance against: luck. In the end it would be close, but after everything the Chiefs been through I have to go with him. But if Fett could get through the Cortana level in H3 then I will call a draw. That has be the hardest mission in H3.
Fire control systems would be the greatest factor. But I think that turbolaser bolts travel slower than light; if SW lasers moved that fast than they would rarely miss their target, as seen in the movie it takes time for laser and turbolaser bolts to travel to their target. Pulse lasers would hit anything within 186000 miles in one second with good targeting data, but there's really no dodging light.
Yeah, turbolasers are slower than light. That's one of the reasons why they're aren't actually lasers. If they were, they would travel at light speed, however, they are plasma, and therefore cannot do that.
um some one should get the halo mod and the star wars mod 4 sins and fuse them to see who is victor
Will it's been some time since I looked at either of those, and the Halo one was not complete then, and I never found the SW mod. It would be fun, that's for sure.
This has been a UNSC transmission,
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/331584/page/29 - SW mod
The Halo mod is still in the alpha stages right now. Sadly it won't be ready for quite some time.
[quote who="GrandAdmiralSova117" reply="9" id="2183946"]um some one should get the halo mod and the star wars mod 4 sins and fuse them to see who is victorWill it's been some time since I looked at either of those, and the Halo one was not complete then, and I never found the SW mod. It would be fun, that's for sure.This has been a UNSC transmission,
You know what would be better, to use 7DS mod, which has the empire, I heard that they might include halo mod. for there entrenchment version
Yeah, we will have the Halo mod in eventually (I'm part of the 7ds team). It will probably be a while, though.
Since the Flood is a wildcard and the forrunners may as well be, lets give Star Wars one: the little-known Yhuuzhan Vong, who gave both the Empire and Rebels a run for their money. All organic ships, and for shields they use quantum singularities (mini balck holes). Plasma is a popular weapon amongst them too, so there goes any covenant advantage. UNSC would simply lose a numbers war. Forrunner, unknown. Vong have excellent disguise methods for infiltration, and would try "jump to the center of the death star" style tricks because they are just as fanatic as the Covenant. Halo activation is really a "nobody will take us alive" last resort in which everyone loses. Flood, a massacre on ground, but they could hold up in space due to their shield method.
Now, for those of you who are still comparing turbolasers to plasma projectors, consider this: with all the resources available too the Empire, why would they settle for a turbolaser that is weak compared to another weapon? They didn't. Turbolasers are designed to hammer away at star destroyer-type hull and shields, when the hull alone can survive nukes (read about Mandalorian Wars to confirm this). Covenant hull can survive one with severe damage. If a turbolaser can tear through that kind of hull plating, imagine what it would do to the covenant. Even better ranged weapons wouldn't turn the tide considering that 1 star destroyer has 60 of them. Fire enough shots and accurracy won't mean a rat's. . .er. . .you know. . . . Also, don't forget proton torpedoes and concussion+harmonic missiles, which also can be guided.
Don't bring the Forrunners into this when we know so little about their ships and weapons.
Onward to ground. . .AT-AA's could decimate banshees and phantoms. AT-AT's are the scarabs' equal, but the empire has a lot more than the covenant. As said with turbolasers, Star wars armor is far superior to covenant, so plasma weapons would have little effect on anything, except stormtroopers. Both sides have cloak, neither superior. The Empire has repeating weapons, too, the just aren't used as often. Darktroopers are equal to Hunters, but once again the empire has a greater supply. Star Destroyers can also fire accurrately on enemy position on the planet.
Actually, it was the New Republic and Imperial Remnant they gave a hard time to. The first was held back by corrupt politicians and the other was a hint of its former self. If the Empire had still been in power, things would have gone very different.
First, the Empire would have struck without holding back early on and prevented the Vong from getting the strong foothold that let them become a threat.
Second, traitors like the Peace Brigade would be acitvely hunted down and dealt with in ways that would make others think twice.
Third are the Empire's various superweapons and superships(I think the only SSD the Vong took down was one that was stripped of its weapons and rammed a worldship).
Then there is the tactics the Empire would use. There would be no hesitation to BDZ just about any planet the Vong took. Orbital bombardment would have made a huge difference against the Vong, as it is the New Republic didn't even use it at all until after Corescant fell.
Backt to Covenant vs Empire: Ground combat does not really matter except on very important worlds as both sides have no hesitation to use orbital bombardment to render a planet uninhabitable. It may come down to who can destroy the others planets first, in that situation the Empire has an advantage. Not only does it have more planets, but it can protect its planets with planetary shields which will take a while for the Covenant to crack. That may be all the Empire needs to get a fleet to the planet to save it. By contrast the Covenant don't have anything but their ships to prevent the Empire from playing hit and run on their planets.
Yes, but we can not forget that the Covenant could shall partly rearm a Forerunner Dreadnought that they had to keep at the low end of it's power because even a station as large as High Charity did not use that much energy.
Here's a quote from First Strike. After considerable study of the Covenant plasma weapons system, she now understood why they glowed before discharge. The stored plasma was always hot and ready to fire, but the Covenant used an inefficient method to collect and direct the chaotic plasma atoms into a controllable trajectory. They selected the charged plasma atoms with the proper trajectory necessary to hit a target and shunted them into a magnetic bubble. The buble was then discharged; subsequent pulse charges herded the plasma on target. For and advanced race, the Covenant's weapons relied on crude brute force calculations and were terribly slow and wasteful. She booted the new system she had devised to control the plasma. It used EM pulsesa priori to align the stochastic motions of the plasma atoms, herding their trajectories and eleven degrees of electronic freedom into a laser-fine columnated beam within a microsecond. This was, of course, an entirely theoretical operation. She test-fired the thre forward plasma turrets-red lines slashed across the black space and intercepted the three lead Covenant cruisers; their shields glowed orange, flickered, and failed. Cortana's plasma cut into the smooth alien hulls. Metal boiled away, and the trio of beams punched clear through the ships. Cortana moved the plasma beams like a scalpel-up and then down-and cut the vessels in half. "Adequate," she remarked. The plasma reserves of the first three turrets, however, were exhausted, and would be several minutes before they'ed recycle. If only there were better electromagnetic system on this flagship, she could have devised a more effective guidance algorithm. Alas, the Covenant's grasp of Maxwell's equations was ironically inferior to human technology. Cortana relized it was fortuitous she had shut down the enemy AI before it leaked her new plasma guidance system. The thought of every ship in the Covenant fleet refitted with improved weaponry was too terrible to calculate. Unquote. And here's another quote. Whitcomb set his hands on his hips," You need to rethink the tactical situation, Governor," he growled." Cortana, find me a target-a rock the same size as this 'gentleman's' base." "Done," she replied. "Burn it," he ordered "Aye, sir!" A lance of plasma appeared on the starboard side of Ascendant Justice, cut through space, and blasted the surface of a three-kilometer-long stone tumbling through the asteroid belt. Its surface heated to orange, yellow, and then white, sputtering blobs of molten iron and jets of vapor that caused the massive stone to spine faster. The plasma cut through the rock in a wide arc-punched through the spposite side. The uneven internal heat caused the rock to fracture and explode into fragments. The debris pinwheeled away, leaving helical trails of cooling iron and glittering metallic gas in its wake. Unquote.
Ah, sorry for the Great Wall here; to much to type. Now since this entire Halo vs Star Wars falls within fan fiction, the UNSC would look at the threat that the Empire is, and hand over Cortana's data. Also, can you find me anything in the books or movies of SW that have one shot from a turbolaser taking out a three-kilometer-long asteroid in one shot. And the Prophets change tech as they see fit, they would take care of the short coming's that Cortana had within months. And please go to Halopedia and look at the Covenant Firgate; it can take control of enemy plasma and send it back at enemy ships, think about the Covenant putting that on all their ships. Also, look to the book Ghost of Onyx, the captured Covenant Destroyer used by the Spartans shot enemy plasma with their own which as it said. Quote. Fred understood what she was trying to do: fight fire with fire. But at these velocities hitting one plasma beam with another was like shooting a bullet out of the air. Unquote.
I will go over the Scarab vs AT-AT and other things like the Vong in the morning. Good night.
Pretty sure Covenant ships project a containment field for the plasma until it impacts. That is what lets the frigate take over the plasma, it overrides the containment field with one of its own.
However Star Wars weapons don't work that way. Once an energy weapon has been fired it has no interaction with the ship that fired it. Even if Star Wars weapons can be hijacked, there is a limit on how many plasma weapons a single figate can control at one time. The problem is that Imperial ships have a lot more guns than Covenant ships are used to dealing with. My guide says that an ISD mounts 60 turbolasers AND 60 ion cannons. The Covenant would need to out number the ISDs by a lot to negate their turbolasers and that is not counting the ion cannons. Plus if the Coventant use their magnetic field projectors to hijack enemy weapons, they can't use them to fire their own weapons.
Don't forget that turbolasers aside from being powerful fire very quickly, I think between 1 and 2 times a second.
Assuming a cycle time of 2 minutes for the plasma weapon used on the 3km rock, that means turbolasers would only need 1/120th the power to do the same amount of damage over the same time period. Plus as mentioned above ISD mount 60 turbolasers.
Here is what happens when an ISD bombards a planet/moon.
Good morning. Yes, I know they have a 120 weapons. But we have only ever seen the tip of the iceberg with the Covenant ships and ground forces. As I said before the Covenant were only slightly fazed by the lost of nearly 500 ships and a command station.
Go to Halopedia and read over the entire Scarab section, such as being dropped from medium orbit, is there anything that says that an AT-AT can do that? And then we do not know how many Scarabs there are, but you could say there's a lot since they were made as mining vehicles before combat versions. The All Tarrain Armored Transport is nothing compared to the Scarab when it comes down to terrain and firepower. Now I don't won't to do another giant post, so just go read over everything in the Scarab section and then I rest my case on it.
I'll be back later.
The thing most people seem to forget about the AT-AT is that it is a troup transport that doubles as a terror weapon. Yes, it may be powerful but it wasn't really designed to fill the role of a tank. For a real tank you would need to jump forward to just after Thrawn's post-Yavin return and look at the Arakyd XR-85 Tank Droid. It is around double the size of an AT-AT walker and can travel up to 70km/hour while being capable of going through water up to 15 meters deep. It mounts two turbolasers on the front as secondary weapons to back up its heavy particle cannon(effective range 5km). Plus it mounts four heavy repeating blasters, two in the front and two in the rear along with an anti-personnel cannon.
It is safe to say a Scarab would destroy an AT-AT. However, it must be noted that the Empire uses orbital bombardment to back up its ground forces. Given the number of guns on an ISD, it can spare one or two of them to take out enemies giving Imperial ground forces a hard time.
Also, I would take everything on Halopedia with a grain of salt as it doesn't cite the source of important imformation(such as speed, see below) and has some bad math.
For example it calculates the NOVA bomb at a mere 27 gigatons.
Plus check out the stats for the Ascended Justice, a mere 8 light-years a day.
The Milky Way is around 100,000 light years in diameter. 100000/8 = 12500 days or ~34.25 years to cross it.
Compare that to Star Wars hyperdrive which can cross the galaxy in weeks.
With that large of a speed advantage the Empire can strike at will and retreat where the Covenant can't follow. Plus any ships the Covenant use to attack would not be able to be recalled for defense. The Covenant would need to out number the Empire by an insane amount(well over 1,000+ to 1) even if their ships were equal to make up for that big of a difference in speed(once the Empire realizes how much faster its ships are it will probably group them into one super fleet and destroy the Covenant one system at a time).
It would be good if you could find better calculations for Halo so the Covenant at least have a chance(One side curbstomping another is not that fun if you like both sides, as I do). I recall a mention of someone calculating the blast of the NOVA bomb in the petaton range based on the description. I think there are better speed calculations out there also.
Covenant
Flagship
3000 meters[1]
Repulsor Engines
Yes
8 light-years/day
(at least enough to fire 1 projector and 2 torpedoes at any 1 time)
Yes (resistant to 4 plasma torpedos)
Unknown covenant material (resistant to 2 plasma torpedoes)
I've just been reading though this and i've seen a lot of interesting arguments, but i'd have to say star wars hands down. All things considered, the empire alone has superior numbers, super weapons that dont commit mass suicide, much superior faster than light travel at least in terms of speed, Grand admiral Thrawn, who seems to be able to adapt to any enemy as long as its not his pet noghri, and the emperor who has an immense command of the force.
The force itself is powerful enough to take on about anything the covenant could throw at the empire given enough force users. Given the shortage of these force users though, ill just say that the emperor can use battle meditation on the entire imperial navy to help them fight, effectively giving his soldier more combat effectiveness while draining the will of his adversary to fight. Furthermore, the force can be used to do things such as drain one's life, create massive force storms capable of annhilating entire fleets or even destroy all life on an entire planet (in a sense, force drain on steroids). Combine those abilities (and just the force in general) with the comparable imperial weaponry and ships, much faster hyperspace drives, seemingly infinite resources, imperial superweapons and thrawns military genious (death by pet noghri aside).... Even a thousand master chief's that for some reason wanna be buddies with the covenant would have quite the headache trying to take on that.
Yes, Halopedia is not the greatest source, but its the only one I know. If you could point me toward a better one that would help a lot. And that means we have to take the Slipspace speeds into that to, so it could be faster than 8 light-years a day. And did you look at the power ouput there? At least enough to fire to plasma torpedos and Energy Projector at a time. And which book or game are the Arakyd XR-85 Tank Droids in? I haven't heard of them before, at least I haven't seen the name. And as I have said before this is one reason for a time line that keeps the more powerful weapons out of the picture and gives the Covenant a fighting chance.
And could the Empire see Covenant ships incoming until they open a Slipspace rift. Look at it, the Covenant could lay traps keeping the main fleet hidden until the Empire is backed into a gravity well, they jump in to the battle will they have their backs turned and destroy them with a massive wave of plasma before they can turn. And what do we know about the plasma the Vong used? Covenant weapons when used with the data Cortana has could mean that the Covenant ships could be on a more level playing field. And as I said before we do not know how many ships the Covenant have in reserve.
And as you said with the rebels not attacking the Empire; we can have the UNSC join with the Covenant against Empire. With the resources of the Covenant they could build who knows how many of the NOVA bombs. Those things didn't get the name Planet Killers for nothing.
And as I said before I know the Covenant would not win unless they do the somethings as the rebels. The Covenant bases like High Charity can enter Slipspace. And what if they were to capture a few ISDs? The Prophets as said before are experts at ripping off tech. And look at the part about the other Shield World in Halo Wars if you haven't all ready. What if they found another one with a Forerunner fleet? In the end we all know that if they get their hands on even a small fleet of Forerunner ships with humans to bring out their full power its game over for the Empire.
Hmmmmm....
I'lll hazard a guess that the Empire would win out of sheer numbers, but it would have a helluva tie keeping its holdings down, because:
* The Covenant would fight a gurilla (sp?) war against the Imperials, and we'd have a "galactic Vietnam War".
* The Rebellion would hepl the UNSC, no ands, ifs, or buts. Just imagine what a couple of Nebulon-B frigates could do if they worked with the good ol' In Amber Clad.
I think they rather have the Empire in control over the galaxy than an invading force to be quite honest
I think they would probably lay low and wait until the fight was over or subtly aide the Empire. Any chance of them siding with Halo will vanish after the Covenant demonstate they indend to glass every world they can.
The tank droid is in the Star Wars "Guide to Vehicles and Vessels" I have. It says they were deployed within a few years of Thrawn's return after Yavin.
click here to find more about the XR-85 Tank Droid
Now lets look at the ship vs ship again. Now we know that with the upgrades Cortana made Covenant plasma has become far more dangerous then it had been before. If a Reverence can fire three of the overpowered plasma torpedos and shall charge it's Silpspace generator than we can safely assume full or nearly full power to sub-light engines.
So lets do a battle between two dozen ISDs and two dozen Reverence Cruisers. Starting at 10000 kilometers from each other. The ISDs and Reverences fire at about the same time, ion and turbolaser shots fly by the Covenant plasma. The Reverence's move to avoid the Imperial fire as the ISDs try to move out of the way of the laser thin plasma which makes a sharp turn and the first two hits burn through the shields and do minimum hull damage; and then the third plasma torpedos that hit each Imperial Star Destroyer melt their way through the prow of some ships, one torpedo turned toward the ship's command deck and boiled away the entire command tower super structure. All ISDs destroyed from one volley with minimum damage to Covenant forces.
Will the Cruisers can evade the Imperial fire there is no avoiding Covenant plasma torpedos. I will probably edit this later. Also, is there anything about how fast a turbolaser bolt? That would help here.
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