Hi Folks,
Ive been saying it for a while now in many threads, but the Mint upgrade at the citadel is incredibly important. Now I have some numbers to prove it.
It seems according to many sources that each grunt you do 25% damage to will give you 4 gold when they die.
The mint upgrade, which gives each demigod on your team an income of 4 gold per second is hence the equivalent of each demigod on your team killing 1 grunt every second.
For fun id like to do the math on your income if you camp a lane and kill every grunt (or at least do 25% damage to gain the income) in that lane. We need the exact number of grunts (2 archers + 6 or 7 minos, I dont remember, someone help) as well as the rate at which waves are spawned at. Once we have that info, we can find out the gold per second of camping and cleaning waves VS the income from the Mint.
Either way point being, buy the mint upgrade people, it is well worth the investment.
Cheers,
Chaos
The way to look at it is that it cost 1800 and pays back 4 gold per second. In a team of 3, it is payed back in 2.5 minutes. In a group of 4 it pays back in under 2 minutes and payes back in under 1 minute for a group of 5 players. The person that get the upgrade gets their money back in 7.5 minutes.
This is very true, but simple division. Good to have here though. The point is, as far as gaining gold goes, the mint upgrade is one of your best bets. It is guaranteed where as demi kills, grunt kills, tower kills or flag mines are all conditional on one thing or another.
If you find yourself having difficulty getting gold, try the mint out, you will be pleasantly suprised.
Nice post, thanks
I'd like to see the calculations for later mint upgrades too if you guys have time..
The formula is.
Cost / gold per second / 60 second in a minute / number of players = when team gets money back.
Cost / gold per second / 60 second in a minute = when you get your money back.
IIRC the second level cost 3000 and gives you an additional 2 gold. I am assuming they are not cumulative. If it was giving 6 on top of 4 the numbers would be different.
3000/2/60/3 = 8.333 minutes
3000/2/60/5 = 5 minutes
3000/2/60 = 25 minutes
So second upgrade might not be in your favor since the game will probably end before you get your investment back but as a team there is still a chance to come out ahead.
Updated calculations using real values. I was only off by 200 gold so it doesn't make that much of a difference though.
Nicely done. As we can see from your numbers, the second and third mint upgrades are certainly not worth the investment (youd think for the hefty cost it would be cumulative wouldnt you, oh well).
Anyone have the info of how often waves of creeps are released from the portal? Also, was their 6 7 or 8 minos in the creep waves? Id still ike to see Mint upgrade VS income from camping creep waves.
Obviously the faster you can get this upgrade the better. Considering a normal income of 4g/sec it would take 3:17 to wait for the additional 800 gold you would need,
Generally games last between 15 and 25 minutes. If you purchase the upgrade 3:30 seconds into the match you can be reasonably sure that the mint will give you 11:30 worth of gold at the very least.
Thats 2760 gold per player. You can look at this 2 ways. You have payed 1800 gold to give each of your allies 2 mid range items and one mid range for yourself. Or, you can look at it the way I do, you have upgraded your allies equipment. Instead of buying the wyrmskin handguards, they are able to get the slayers wraps instead.
Another way to look at it is: Would you pay 1800 gold to give each of your allies a 300 damage nuke and +30 weapon damage? I certainly would, and this is what would happen if they each bought a warlords punisher with the money.
I find sometimes its easier to see the benefit of things when you put their effects into real word numbers (or items in this case).
Cheers
This is with all settings on normal
Default reinforcements/wave: 5 soldiers, 2 archersExtra reinfocements/wave: 3 priests, 2 angels, 2 catapultasauriis, 2 giants
Each owned goldmine gives 2 gold/second
Currency I costs 1800gold (4gold/second)Currency II costs 3000gold (6gold/second)Currency III costs 4200gold (8gold/second)
(They are not cumulative)
Intresting read though, will consider buying the first rank of Currency since it seems to be a good investment for the team.
Initial reinforcement wave is 4 soldiers. I beleive that the auto war effort upgrades add another soldier then 2 archers.
Well, we need to check this. I really feel the initial wave is larger then 4 creeps. We also still need the wave frequency.
There are 3 ways to gain money in demigod. Income/sec, creep/building kills and demigod kills. Since demigod kills cant be controled it is very important to understand the income potential of what we CAN control.
QoT also has a skill that provides 4 gold/sec. Initially I though it was just for her but from post I've read people seem to think it's for all demigods on your side or those near you.
definitely a good upgrade especially for those games where its hard to get a kill
Was this a recent post? She used to have a "Money Tree" skill but it was taken out before we ever saw her..
ohh yea, I didn't think war effort would increase the rank so I buffed mine to 10 so I could confirm all the reinforcements.
Did a normal skirmish, restored default options first then changed speed to adjustable.
War Rank 1: 5 soldiersWar Rank 2-10: 5 soldiers 2 archers
It also seems that if you do less then 50% damage you get 4 gold for soldiers and archers and if you do more then 50% you get 8 gold.
I've never actually put points in it but when I played her in the solo campaigns it shows up in her skill tree at the very end.
[Tribute]
So powerful is the worship that Queen of Thorns holds that her servants pay her tribute.
0 yard range, 0.0 second cast, 0 second cool down.Mana Cost Per Rank [ 000/000/000/000 ] [Passive Ability]
+ 4 Gold for Army
Taken from Cerulean_Shaman's Handbook to Queen of Thorns.
Excellent. Karma for you for testing.
Well more testing is required then as this could change everything. It would also be very good to know for Generals who use minions (or anyone with a strong AOE) as if this is the case, focusing on clearing the creep waves can give a substantial monetary boost. 7 creeps (5 minos, 2 archers) at 8 gold a pop is 56 gold per creep wave.Thats not too shabby.
Still missing creep wave frequency. Anyone know how often they spawn from the portal?
Either way, I cant see it outpacing the mint. 56 gold would take 14 seconds for the mint to produce (and it does it for your entire team, not just you) and if the waves come every 10 seconds (lets say you need 4 seconds to actually clear it) I obviously have a hacked version of Demigod lol. I think its somewhere around 35-45 seconds. Can someone time it?
Ok guys this is from labbing it to see whether it's cumulative or not(just to be sure, I don't trust any of you guys ).
Settings: Initial gold set to filthy rich, intitial war rank set to 10. I do not think this alters gold income Map was crucible.
I measured using a separate timer and just reading the values off so there's uncertainty here. It shouldn't be anywhere near the level of confusing cumulative with non cumulative, especially since the time interval is 60 seconds. Obviously more data points would improve things, but I don't think they're necessary here.
Base:
Time - 60 seconds
Initial Gold - 25100
Final Gold - 25368
Rate: ~4.5 gold/sec
Expected Cumulative Rate: 4 gold/sec
Expected Non-cumulative Rate: 4 gold/sec
Currency 1:
Initial Gold - 23720
Final Gold - 24252
Rate: ~ 8.9 gold/sec
Expected Cumulative Rate: 8 gold/sec
Expected Non-cumulative Rate: 8 gold/sec
Currency 2:
Initial Gold - 21448
Final Gold - 22118
Rate: ~11 gold/sec
Expected Cumulative Rate: 14 gold/sec
Expected Non-cumulative Rate: 10 gold/sec
Currency 3:
Initial Gold - 18274
Final Gold - 19066
Rate: ~13 gold/sec
Expected Cumulative Rate: 22 gold/sec
Expected Non-cumulative Rate: 12 gold/sec
Most definitely not cumulative. That kind of sucks :/.
Knowing this, it takes 7.5/(# of players on your team) minutes for currency 1 to pay off, 25/(# of players on your team) minutes for currency 2 to pay off, and 35/(# of players on your team) minutes for currency 3 to pay off. Yuck. Currency 1 is always worth it and should quite probably be the first citadel upgrade bought. Currency 2 and 3 are no where near worth it in 1v1 or if you have ai allies. In 2v2, currency 2 will probably pay off if you get it early enough(games can last a good 40 minutes and it takes twelve and a half to pay off), but currency 3 is useless(17 minutes to pay off and you only get it late anyways). In 3v3, currency 2 will probably pay itself off towards the end game but currency 3 still seems like it'll take too long. 4v4 is getting to the point where 3 might be viable if you can get it fast enough. They're all no brainers in 5v5.
Or they could just give us the GP/second calculation in gold right beside our income.
Ok I tried to time the rate reinforcements spawn. I lowered the ingame speed to -10 and used the timer you see if you open the score board (it's much easier to track things when you lower the in-game speed). First creepwave spawned when the timer stood on 20seconds, the second creepwave spawned when the timer stood on 51seconds. So it looks like it is 31 seconds between each wave.
@ Doggiedoodle if you use the same method when checking currency you can notice how much gold you get each (game) second.
I totally forgot the scoreboard had a timer .
Though I got curious about your gold rate you got so I tested some (would like someone else to confirm if they get the same).
I tried to test how much gold I get in 10seconds and I always got 11 ticks of cash. Also I checked to see how fast I would get 100gold (2goldmines = 4gold / tick) if it was every second it would take 25seconds but it was closer to 23 seconds (somewhere between 22-23 sec.
If we go back to the 11 ticks on 10 seconds we see that we would get gold every 0.9090... second (10s/11ticks).And with that in mind taking (10/11)*25 and we get 22.7 (about the time it took for me to get 100gold, 25 is the amount of ticks it takes when the income is 4g/tick).
Doggiedoddle, you just confirmed by findings about the gold rate. Thanks. :]
Basically, each gold mine mines once every 1.8 seconds. At the start it's 4 gold per tick, then 8, 10, 12 for each Mint upgrade respectively.
Also, you guys aren't factoring in the number of gold mines you have. On Cataract you start with 3. You can get 4 on Crucible and start with 2. So it varies map to map.
So, some math. On Cataract, you can get the first upgrade in 5 minutes if you spend your initial 1000 gold (assuming you have war rank 3). If the game lasts another 20 minutes and it's a 3v3, your team will gain 23,976 gold from that upgrade. That's HUGE and game deciding. Of course, whoever buys it is going to have some trouble around level 5-10, since they're down 1,800 gold (unless someone used kill money to buy it).
PS. @ Guy above me: Yes, that's because it's 1.8 per tick for each gold mine.
Sorry but I don't belive it's 1.8gold/goldmine, I just started a Zikurat map starting with 4 goldmines then I took the mine in the middle so I had 5 mines, if it was 1.8 gold/mine then I should get 9 gold each tick but I got 10 gold.
And if we would get 1.8 gold / mine then I would have got a lot less gold in my first tests, I would have got ~36gold/10sec instead of the 44gold/10sec.
It's probably 2 gold a second. The reason my numbers are off was I used a stop watch to time rather than the in game clock from the scores menu.
Nicely done gentleman. Thats some good testing. I think we can all agree that the mint upgrade is well worth the investment in nearly every game. The larger the game, the more important it becomes.
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