We have some pretty specific things in mind for a micro-expansion that adds more diplomatic features to Sins of a Solar Empire.
But before we talk about them, we'd like to hear - specifically - what you'd imagine seeing in a $10 diplomacy oriented expansion for Sins.
tripple post
Oh, quad post...could someone remove thet please?
Forgive me if some of these have been mentioned already, but I only read most of the first page and then just went to replying.
Get rid of the missions to improve relations imo they popped up to much with missions that were impossible such as attacking an enemy in another system when I didn't have the resources or the research to complete it. Don't know if that has changed or not since I been playing with locked teams since then.
I do like some of the ideas in the very first post about a leader with their own ship which you can customize. It could also keep track of stats, such as kills, assists, destroyed or almost killed. Maybe have its max level at 20 or give it a skill tree similar to wow. Upgrades such as add more hanger bays to the ship to carry more fighters/bombers or add more weapons, more shields or more engines to go faster. Maybe it is whish full thinking but I think it would be neat to have.
Add some sort of events. Like random black holes opening up somewhere or a super nova, I think I seen a post were someone suggested very good events. This could open some new multiplayer options such as defeat the enemy before the black hole consumes all of you and every 30 minutes the game is going the black hole growth rate gets doubled or something like that. or maybe there is a artifact some were in the game that lets you research a way to stop a black hole which cost money and time and after that you have to spent more money and time on actually constructing the ship/device that can do that.
Which brings me to another suggestion. random artifacts which you can collect with a capital ship. They would enable a research for a small buff to the empire or a new type of shield, weapon, jump drive, engines, ships, buildings or other which you will have to research first and then construct.
Random Events ftw! Growing list of proposed events here:
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/359619
But I'm sure the enhanced Diplomacy options alone will be good.
oh I forgot to add, please combine the flak frigate with the carrier frigate. it will make a more usefull unit and removes 2 not so much usefull units.
I would also like to be able to destroy planets. I see some useless planets I would like to just send in a ship to blew it up and then harvest the debris for resources. or it can be used against your enemies.
I'd like to have a bit more controll over how my fleets line up. Perhaps make a few preset formations instead of limiting it to that line/arrow formation thas in place now (although it does get the job done with a bit of micro). Perhaps something like a stretched out line or maybe even a semi-circle or V-shape. I obviously havent thought it out too thoroughly, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways.
I would also like to be able to destroy planets. I see some useless planets I would like to just send in a ship to blew it up and then harvest the debris for resources. or it can be used against your enemies
Blowing up a planet? Very diplomatic. Was Emperor Palpatine your teacher?
campaign, please. #1.
what if there was a diplomacy ship that had to be in the gravity well of another players non-asteroid planet that gives special options? this ship is killable but the AI wouldnt auto-kill it. what if, ok, what if you donated this ship to the other player and what it did was when it was in the gravity well is it gave a lessened version of your cultural bonus (or some other type of new race/ship specific bonus/ability) or the unique ability you have to that person? and you can only make a certain number of these ships, or have a certain number out at any given time. like the TEC diplomacy ship can have the restore shields ability and the vasari diplomacy ship could have the 'phase out hull' ability and the advent ship could have the 'vengeance' ability. or maybe one should just be able to donate ships complete with their respective abilities to other players. maybe these donated ships do not perform as well.
combining financial efforts when dealing with pirates. i think this should be an option just like sharing trade routes and planet vision, etc. bounty vision. knowing where my allies (or anybody who wants to offer up this information) are putting their pirate money. maybe this could be an advent/tec special thing. maybe each race should have some sweet ability that pertains to enemies or allies. i like bounty vision because it adds several layers to the political dynamic. like if im telling player y that its my personal rule to not share bounty vision ever with anyone but i have an agreement with player x to share bounty vision and partner till the end - maybe player y is going to realize what im doing and try to hook up with somebody else and maybe player y will give that person some critical information that ive given to them (ship vision, etc) while appearing to still be my ally and maybe this makes the other diplomacy options all the more important to consider who knows what, whos allied with who and when. see what im saying? theres lots of possibilities. maybe i know that player z has grown strong and is coming straight for player r and maybe i dont want player z to eliminate player r even though player r and i arent allies and so i give them bounty vision and say, hey im really trying to get this dude attacked by pirates and i think you should too. maybe the ability to provide bounty vision could be an option to turn on/off pre-game like the pirates.
if you do bounty vision though maybe youd need to update the way the pirates do things because just placing a starbase where you know theyll come out isnt helping anyone accomplish anything. maybe the pirates arent all connected to each other and you must own a planet in a star system to place bounty in that system (but maybe not that). so potentially there are like 4 different pirate auctions going off and you have to kind of pick your battles on where you dont mind being attacked and where you really want to win the auction. maybe the pirates in systems that players initially start in ARE tied together/syndicated but the other systems are seperate or seperately syndicated.
one idea for the different races special abilities is that each race will only have one of these abilities and when you are at the super alliance level with another race they share the ability, you see what im saying? so if you made bounty vision an advent only ability then only advent and their allies who they let in on this ability may use it. what this does is it encourages players to choose races that maybe not everyone else is playing and so diversity (for the sake of keeping the game interesting) will supposedly strengthen the niche of diplomacy because players would take into consideration what races theyre allying with if they wanted access to certain abilities. perhaps there would be abilities that only players who ally with same race can have too. like 2 vasari allies can share an ability that a vasari and advent alliance could not share. maybe the races can have some super technology that if i am allied with this race i can research this really sweet cruiser ship that combines the ideas from both races (or maybe this is an ability on a certain class of ship or maybe this is some sweet research) but if i research this ability i can never un-ally from the specific player/race i am cool with (maybe or maybe not they can unally with me) maybe this is one of those options like ship vision that if we both agree, it costs us both money, takes some time and means were locked in for life/death. maybe this ability is cancelable so that i kind of have to watch it to make sure the other person doesnt cancel 90% in just to give the appearance that they wanted to do this, but maybe not - if so, though, i feel like 90% of the research done means that 90% of the money is un-refundable because maybe theyre really short on cash and need the money and so this adds another political layer to the diplomacy like 'what do i really think is going on with this person, and how do i deal with this?'
asking for resources would be nice. i like the idea of putting conditions on missions. like this dude wants you to do x and youll recieve x money and happiness but you have a little bit of time to respond with a condition like 'include a cease-fire agreement' and then they have a little time to say yes or no and then you have some time to say 'ok ill do the initial deal'
culture could be improved too, i feel, but i havent really seen any ideas that i really think are great yet
i think some of these are way too galactic civilizations. espionage?
i do like the idea of a single ship that is special for each race. i think this ship should have mostly helper abilities with like one real sweet ability that everyone should be on the look out for at all times but may be hard to access
messing with the missions and lacking the ability to give others missions is my major problem. if i have been given a mission to kill 15 tactical structures and i kill 13 do i not deserve some goddamn credit?
anyway, i hope you like some of these ideas. thanks for giving us a chance.
oh yeah one more thing. sorry. i feel like the AI tells me to do really dumb things sometimes to my (and their) detriment. if the Survivors are my un-locked ally in this 4 player game and they want me to attack player x and i do so and im really sweet at it and ish is really going well and im like some decent number of planets away from taking out player x i feel like it doesnt make any sense for the Survivors to then tell me to focus on player y and penalize me for not focusing on player y while im wiping out player x. you know what im saying?
im not saying there shouldnt be a penalty but maybe the penalty is mitigated or time is added or something, you know what i mean?
Good idea. Look at Galcivs random events for inspiration. The events in GC are meant to destabilise the stabilised game. This would be good for sins, where all players sometimes entrench themselves to the point that the game ends up in a sort of pat.
Obviously there's going to be cool changes to diplomacy and I've made lots of suggestions already. But I'm going to suggest some miscellanous ideas here too, hoping some might be considered.
Multiplayer Speeds
We all know that normal speed for multiplayer is too slow. Fast speed can sometimes be too fast if there's a lot going on. It would be nice to have a third speed setting somewhere in between.
Starmap: Artifacts
Would it be possible to see the position of known and suspected Artifacts on the starmap? For instance, on the zoomed-out starmap, they could appear as tiny icons just above the gravwell circles. This way, you get the big strategy view of where things are. It would give players a better visual guide.
Fleet Logistics: scale back
Another poster suggested this and I now appreciate its wisdom. Sometimes your empire can take an unexpected beating. Whether you're tag-teamed in multiplayer, or ganged all at once by all the Comp players, your fleet and your income can disappear fast.
Therefore, it would be nice to scale back the cost of your Fleet Logistics upkeep when you're in dire straits.
Colony Ships
Every time a colony ship successfully colonizes a planet, it should disappear. Two reasons why. First, in real life, the colony ship would release all of its passengers, all of its supplies, and its hull would be designed to be rapidly deconstructed for materials. This would stop a lone colony ship from hypothetically colonizing every single one of your conquests (and yes, I've done that once before, making only 1 CS the entire game).
Second reason, this would make colony cap ships even more important. While they are popular, technically only the Vasari Egg is an essential ship due to its durability. The TEC colonizer cap ship on the other hand is not essential at all, and the other TEC cap ships are far more useful. For instance, my first two caps would be a Kol and Marza or Sova. And I would just use colony ships to settle worlds.
Pirate Base, Pirate Cap Ships
It's kind of a let down once you trash a Pirate base. Yeah, you eliminated a nuissance and leveled up some cap sips in the process. But there's no real reward. It would be nice to get hold of the Pirate's treasure! I say - colonize a pirate base and you get their treasure hoard worth 2500 to 4000 credits. Or how about a cool pirate artifact like a super surveillance scope? When used, it could give you vision of one gravwell, anywhere in the solar system. The device would use AM, have a cool down, etc.
We'd all love to see Pirate cap ships. There should be a carrier type and a battleship type. First, there should be one present at every Pirate base (randomly carrier or battleship). Second, after about 45 minutes into a game, there should be a small but increasing chance that a cap ship will accompany a pirate raid. This could make pirate raids actually an exciting, fun challenge.
AI Aggression
While I do the multiplayer thing more often now, I still usually only have time for singleplay (saved game) sessions. I try to stack the Hard AIs against me. It can be a challenge and they may attack, but they only tend to really turn on vicious aggression against me when allied with each other (strength in numbers, dog-pile scenario).
According to some new magical algorithms, a lone AI should sometimes assemble a fat fleet, select an enemy objective (human- or AI-controlled, and just go for it a bit more often.
Bombardment
I'm still not sure about this idea, but I'll give it a shot. While some multiplayers might specialize in this area and prove me wrong, planet-busting seige frigs on the whole are not popular for a reason. While it can be a good risk investment to make a small team of seige frigs to speed up bombardment, it's certainly not necessary because your caps can ultimately do the job. Personally, I'd rather pour resources into maximizing cap ships because they can bomb and defend themselves well, instead of virtually defenseless seige frigs.
Technically, if your opponent's planets are not really fortified, you can go without seige frigs. Therefore, they are not built that often.
The fix? Slightly reduce the bombardment damage dealt by caps. Not a big reduction mind you, but perhaps a reduction of 15%. This would stimulate the construction of seige frigs.
New Planet Types
There's all sorts of ideas to make new types like Forest, Swamp, Steppe, and so forth. But technically these are just Terran worlds. A new world type must be both physically/scientifically different and offer something different in game terms as well. So the differences can't just be cosmetic. Instead of suggestions, here are my questions and thoughts.
Toxic: How could a Toxic world be fundamentally different than others? Given the game engine we have, I don't know, aside from having a low population cap and a Toxic colonization requirement. Could they possess Rare Elements? Precious Materials? Would these offer extra credits?
Oceanic: Same thing. Aside from an Under City requirement for colonization, how would it be different? Would water be precious? Offer extra credits?
The only absolutely unique one I could think of would be this:
Huge planet: A Huge (or Giant) planet is a big barren wasteland. Its mass is so considerable that over millions of years it has sucked in most nearby asteroids. Therefore it only rarely has an asteroid upon which Extractors can be made. However, due to its overall land mass, with enough development, it can eventually support even more population than a Terran planet. It also has deep craggy pits and catacombs that can be expanded to make excellent underground fortifications.
Game terms -
1. Randomy zero or only one asteroid
2. +1 additional slot for infrastructure over the Terran limit
3. +1 additional slot for fortifications over the Terran limit
4. +1 additional slot for Explore Planet over the Terran limit.
5. Large gravwell
New Game Types
Normal conquest is fun and will always remain the most popular type. however, there has to be different ways to win this game. There should be a 'Game Type' option. Here are some examples.
1. Destroy Homeworlds. Bomb the enemy homeworld to oblivion and you force a surrender.
2. Cultural Supremacy. Gain a certain level of cultural mastery and you win.
3. Strategic Control. Some new maps should have a handful of highly valuable strategic areas. These are visible on the starmap, each of the gravwells depicted with a special icon. Build SBs in 2/3s of these gravwells, hold them all for 5 minutes, and you win.
4. Capture the Flag. The flags in this case are ancient alien vessels or devices, randomly distributed in neutral gravwells. Some new maps would have a handful of these alien vessels drifting about. You capture them by sending in a Colony Ship. Once boarded, each alien ship must slowly be escorted back to your Homeworld. Capture all 5 and you win.
5. Advanced Opponent. This is not so much of a gametype, but a kind of setting given to an AI computer opponent. If you want more of challenge, click on what kind of AI type you want and select Advanced. An Advanced AI starts the game with...
- all its homeworld extractors already built
- its Cap Ship Factory already built
- two Scouts already built
- depending on the race, either 5 Cobalts, 5 Disciples, or 5 Skirmishers already built
- all of its tier1 and tier2 technology upgrades already researched
In fact, that's the reason I'd like colony ships buffed instead, at least with faster AM recharging.Now, there is little point in going with any military cap if the enemy is further than 3 jumps away. If you go military, you will have 3 planets after 15 minutes. If you go colonizer cap - you will have 6-7. Whatever you do, the col cap guy has more money and will overrun you as you try to slowly mow down his planets (and, likely, the rebel fleets he left behind after eliminating krosovs). Taking a planet with a colonizer is easy and quick and simple, eliminating a planet takes YEARS of wasting your cap ship's time on bombardment (we all know siege frigs aint worth it). That's why it's always a good deal to take that planet fast and at least let it work as a buffer.
My experiences with multiplayer so far -
1. Vasari player 95% of the time, first cap is Egg (essential)
2. Advent 75%, first cap is mothership (somewhat essential)
3. Terran, 50% is Akkan (optional)
Basically, as I mentioned in my earlier post, my emphasis is on the Akkan not being popular.
A team of 3 colony ships (as you also build frigs) in the opening stages can do just fine as a colonizer substitute, if you'd rather get another first cap (for instance, a Kol or Marza over an Akkan).
I'd like to see colony ships get more hull points, but I still think it's silly that a single colony ship can seed every single colony (not recommended for multiplay, I know full well).
Your mention of the colonizer cap AM recharge is an important issue though, so thanks for mentioning it.
I really like almost all of these ideas, but please, if there's religions, let there be a "no religion" option. I don't want us all to have Advent-like problems.
Also, one other thing:
Doesn't the TEC already have Insurgency?
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