One thing Id like to see is for them to be a bit more buffed.
Seems they arent that great , and die too easily.
Offcourse I reference such games where its a pro vs a pro , so your not going to have 4 free minutes to kill a starbase without any reply.
I would say they are too weak and need a bit more range. Their damage output is respectable, but they die pretty fast. They are especially bad vs the Vasari Starbase because it they don't have much time to get shots off before it crawls up and eats them.
A bit more survivability and a bit more range would be nice. I find that in the situations where I can use them successfully, I didn't really need them in the first place because the firepower of my fleet is sufficient. And in the situations where I need them, I lose so many that I finally just resort to carriers.
I found the starfish to be a bit more flexible. When paired with a scout they can wipeout a minefield quickly. Ironically the AI did this to me.
each of the ships has different issues in my opinion.
the Ogrov is a wonderful SB killer. a group of 5 or 6 of them will blast apart even very upgraded starbases pretty quickly. its pretty good against normal structures but not that much noticeably better than a carrier with bomber squadrons.
Starfish on the other hand are mediocre against SB's but will rip apart ordinary structures incredibly quickly, usually kill them 3 or 4 at a time.
both of the ships seem too specialized considering how expensive they are. i think they should just cost slightly less. maybe scale them down by 20% in terms of credit/resource and fleet logistics costs.
well, considering ogrovs can bust a fully upgraded starbase so easily, making them expensive sounds like a good balancing decision.
The real problem with these things (particularly the starfish) is that they have to get in range of the starbase's abilities to attack it. The most obvious case is the starfish going up against an advent starbase, 2-3 meteors even a very large group of starfish will be wiped out. Given their excessive cost, it makes them pretty much pointless. You are much better off just massing a bunch of carriers with bombers for a strike force that no starbase can directly defend itself from.
The only real solution I can think of that would make them truly useful in their intended role is to give both the orgovs and the starfish supreme range, something like ~16, so they can bombard a starbase from well outside of it's defenses. Additionally something should be done to make them viable versus vasari starbases (which if fully upgraded will drive right over the top of them and just blow them all up). Perhaps some sort of fire on the move capability so they can continuously back away from an approaching vasari starbase would fix it. As it stands, against highly upgraded starbases these structure killers just don't cut it and massing bombers just seems like a better deal, particularly because the bombers are also very effective against enemy capships, heavy cruisers, etc.
imho the assault cruisers are perfect, ogrovs having slightly more range then a starbase, and the starfish having multi-shot from medium range "and more health"
i wouldnt change them, a pair of 10 ogrovs takes a short time to kil a fully upgraded starbase.. but what did you expect? someone who invest 70.000 credits and recources in upgrading his starbase to be killed by a pair of 5 ogrovs in less then a min doesnt sound fair
the only thing that upsets this balance is... again the vasari starbase being moveable, ogrovs are near useless vs vasari, becuase their starbase wil just run straight towards the assault cruisers and kil them pretty fast.. only the starfish has some decent attack vs it, but only becuase it was already meant for medium range combat
they are plenty powerfull enough. in regards to the vasari starbase: the cruisers are faster. and the base is a victim to magnetise which is kinda evil considering this bases dies without its abilitys.
I think it is okay that Starbases can fire back.
Note that often Ogrovs outrange starbases - I dunno which upgrade enhances their missile range, but it seems that an unupgraded starbase is pretty much a sitting duck for them!
Starfish are awesome at destroying structures, not so good for starbases themselves. But they wreck hangars, gauss platforms and extractors alike easily.
I agree that bombers are more versatile, and somehow neither Starfish nor Ogrov seem to be on the durable side, they die like light frigates.
But I prefer them over having to build a starbase, like the Vasari. They really lack the structure destroyer.
The Ogrov is powerful enough against static starbases. Use them like you would a siege frigate. Only send them in when the fleet has established superiority. I keep the fleet away from the starbase as much as possible. I use carriers with bombers against Vasari bases. Not sure about the starfish but since advent is superior with strike craft I'd focus more on bombers and use the starfish on fixed turrents like other have suggested.
I like to Ogrov myself. With a decent fleet in front you can stop a Vasari starbase though you do lose ships. The other two fall quickly to the Ogrovs. The starfish I am concerned. You need like 30 of them just to dent the sheilds of a starbase but they can shred the surrounding defense, I know I said this earlier but pair these with a couple of scouts and bye bye minefield, which can allow the rest of your fleet to fight the starbase without back up.
I haven't played much of Entrenchment yet. If i had to guess, I'd say that bombers although they are more versitle and also good against SBs, they also have good counters against them. These anti-structure ships just offer another option against SBs.
So if a player/ AI decides to counter your bomber squads with mass fighters and flaks, you could switch to these Anti-structure ships.
The thing about tweaking balance is if you try to make the anti-ships too good or good enough, then it takes the strategy away from the game. So although there are anti-structure ships, they are not a the silver bullet and neither are bombers which is fine with me. Makes the game more interesting.
vasari SB is broken, i love it best anti-SB in the game is vas SB
If the Vasari SB is going after your ogrovs, then the rest of your fleet can tear it up from behind. Without frontal shields, vasari SB goes down (relatively) easily.
Anyone know if Repulsion or inertial field work on the Vasari space tulip? Vasari base seem to run too fast for a behemoth.
Ogrovs and Starfish have light armour and so are countered by fighters which is bad.
They should have heavy or very heavy armour so that planet defenses hav a harder time destroying them.
not a terrible idea JuleTron. heavy armor would allow them to be easily countered by Light Frigates but make them much more resistant to fighters. would make them more able to go into a grav well and blow up hangar defenses before the squadrons killed them, which honestly, they should be able to do since their specific purpose is to counter static defenses.
Changing the armor from light to very heavy is not a good idea because bombers would to 100% damage vs them instead of 50% damage.
But changing the armor from light to heavy might just do the trick. Light Frigates would do 150% damage (instead of 75%) and fighters would do 50% damage (instead of 200%).
This would increase their survivability quite a bit!
I agree, the attack range of those cruisers is too limited. They need an "extreme range". Countering the Vas SB is always problematic, if the range of the anti-structure cruisers is increased, they would be able to take a few extra shots before the SB is on top on them.
Magnetize on a vasari starbase can be pretty evil......
TEC ogrovs have slightly longer range then starbase standard weaopons but can be improved 12% with a lvl 9 technology
and improved by another 15%?? with akkans Target uplink ability, having both is just mean
i usualy jump in my fleet, put them on hold position or local area.. then jump in the ogrovs (as far away as possible)
the result can be pretty destructive.. on asteroids ogrvos can take out structures 1 by 1, on larger planets you'll have to escort them tough becuase fighters eat them away with ease and you also dont want your enemy to target them.....
and im sieges that take very long.. just put a starbase in the grav well and make ogrovs >> thats evil...
I think the starfish are useless against starbases.
They cost little less then carriers and have very low health.
Killing a fully upgraded starbase with 10 starfish takes hours. 30 Advent Bomber squadrons do the job in the same time. + Carriers can kill Vasari SB's and Advent SB's with Meteor, which 10 Starfish can't.
I also noticed that the attack range is only slightly higher than the starbase long range weapons.
Today I ordered 10 Starfish to attack an Advent SB. They all moved into attack range but 2 of them moved just 1 meter further and the SB started to fire its blue plasma waves on them. I'd suggest giving them a slightly greater range to counter the stupidity of the AI when moving towards targets.
In general I'd lower the costs of the Anti structure units. They are highly speciallized, but carriers can do the same and are more versatile overall. Both are countered by fighters, but the carrier only indirect (only its SC).
Starfish = not meant to be an anti-starbase weaopon.. yes it probably the best unit to deal with it directly, but liek you said bombers are better for this role, the starfish 's real strenght lies in its ability to deal damage to multiple structures at once. this becuase it has multi-shot "this is also a fun ability to use when clearing mines"
talknig abotu mines.. have any of you ever seen an ogrov shoot a few nukes at a mine? ... it's a hilarious overkill >.>
I used Ogrov myself recently vs half upgraded Vasari starbase. It had 1 weapon upgrade and 1 defense upgrade, or was it 2, it hink 2. I used 11 and lost 0 before the starbase blew up. Very effective He spend jsut as much on the base as I did on the torpedo frigates, and all of my frigates survived.
different story against an SB with Frontal Shield. but yeah, they work real good against less developed Orkulas. they get murdered vs. a "fully operational battle-station" though.
Only problem is that you can't take it with you to your next world
In order to get a wrecking ball Vasari SB: 3 armor upgrades, 2 weapon upgrades, 2 debris vortex, and 1 frontal shield (you can switch 1 debris vortex to get 4 armor if you care to). <---That never dies
anyone ever tried casting vengeance on an SB?
vertigo is also applicable to assault cruisers hint hint...30% increased cooldown time for weapons...
Subverterters don't work against SBs, but nano-bomb does. I don't know if phase-out-of-hull can be used against SBs as I've never tried it.
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