The vasari have no anti-structure ships and the equalizer is supposed to be the fact that you can depoly their starbase in the other grav well and it will take stuff out. while their starbase rocks in general, i find that it is useless in an assault scenario. even if you max out Assault Deployment it still takes forever to build at which point:
The point is Vasari end up in a stalemate and don't know how to invade each others worlds. They just sit at the border and yell...."No! YOU attack ME!"
Hehe...I can't tell you how many games people ask me to "Please attack them at their super fortified, star base entrenched, mined, fleet guarded last world." And I'm like, "NO WAY, BUDDY!" and keep building my superweapons.
If I wanted to destroy your cobalt, I would use a Javelis, not another Cobalt.
Its not about a cobalt vs. another cobalt, its about using the right counter to destroy the enemy, right now the Vasari have no anti-structure cruiser.
The devs want you to use tha Vasari starbase to destroy the other starbase (assault deployment + the ability to move + the first weapon upgrade vs structures). But that strategy is WRONG and FLAWED.
It works better against TEC/Advent but not vs Vasari. If you're Vasari and you want to destroy another Vasari starbase, you have to use bombers to do it because the HARD COUNTER (Vasari Starbase) DOES NOT WORK!!!.
Bombers were the anti-structure weapon of choice since the beginning of the game. and actually....they still are. you can't take out a Vasari starbase with Ogrov's or Starfish either, its not only an Assault Deployment Orkulas that has problems taking it out. Frontal Shield is damn good and makes the thing almost impossible to kill with anything except overwhelming numbers or bombers.
Here's an idea for allowing Orkulas to fight enemy Orkulas, give them an upgrade that lets them phase jump once. Basically, you give up an upgrade slot in exchange for using it as a siege weapon one time.
Commence the murdering.
I'll get the axe.
NO PHASE JUMPING STARBASES.
PERIOD.
What was that phrase again? Oh, right:
STATIONARY FREAKIN' BASE.
(The fact that the Orkulus can move about in the gravity well does not mean that it does not qualify as a stationary freakin' base.)
Phase jumping starbases will cause a small problem of making muiltiple starbases in a single grav well. How would you prevent a player from building a new starbase after the old one jumps away, and then jumping that in too? Repeat that a few times and you've got a bad case of lulz on your hands.
Make it so that starbases can't jump into a gravity well that already has a starbase. Also, allow each starbase to phase jump just one time. This is just an idea for the Vasari starbase. The Vasari starbase is supposed to take the role of siege frigates but they're useless against enemy Vasari starbases. So the solution is to either give the Vasari siege frigates too or make it so that their starbase can somehow take on enemy Vasari starbases.
The argument about the Vasari starbase being useless, because your fleet kills the enemy before they're done, is invalid - make colony pods upgrades and rack profits or build trade port upgrades to have a very hard to destroy trade port.
I did want to mention that Vasari SB is an inefficient anti-starbase offensive weapon, because it can be destroyed a dozen times before its construction is completed. However, I have just tested that Overseer's nanite armor works on an unfinished (i.e. just started) starbase.
Soo... if you wanna use the SB offensively against a well defended system: [ The basic hit point upgrades are very helpful here - they're cheap and even one first upgrade gives a few hundred max hit points to a freshly started starbase ]- Send your fleet.- 5 seconds later - send your migrator and immediately start building the SB.- 2 seconds later - send 3-5 Overseers. Have them land a little away from the SB (so they don't have to make a 180 degree turn to face it, only ~90 degrees).- immediately order all overseers to heal the starbase (i.e. Select all Overseers, TAB-> nanite armor Hotkey -> click starbase -> tab -> nanite hotkey -> SB -> tab -> hotkey -> SB ...) until the starbase is full hp.
Voila - instant 3,5k HP Starbase. Well, ok , not instant - it will reach 3,5k HP in, like, 8-10 seconds. But if the enemy focused your fleet first, he won't manage to react. Now he has a choice - kill the SB (which is under construction = pumping new hit points and shields, has nice armor and tons of HPs to lose already), which will require him to eliminate the overseers first (otherwise he'll never bring it down; it all takes time and micro). So he's essentially fighting a losing battle against time before your starbase is ready. During that time, your fleet can do tons of irritating stuff to him, like - subverters turning off his whole fleet, Vulkoras disintegrating his best caps, ANTORAK PHASING OUT HIS STARBASE (lawl!... no idea if it works yet, I bought Entrenchment today, but I'll check it tomorrow 100%) and lots of other stuff.Or, he may decide to kill the fleet, in which case he'll have a fire-spitting demon to face in no time.
Also note - A Vasari starbase deals heavy damage to many targets at once. That damage is pulse gun damage (i.e. first and cheapest upgrade pack among all vasari weapon systems). If you quickly make Assault upgrade 1, it will do insane damage to many nearby targets at once............VOLATILE NANITES = GG.
Oh and a few extra ideas:- if you're in a multiplayer match and have a TEC ally -> have him use the please-don't-shoot-me-for-some-time-ok-thanks ability immediately after you start your starbase construction. Dunno how It's gonna work, but I suppose your SB will be completed without interruption, right in front of your enemy watching helplessly as it reaches full strength.- If it is late game and you went deep military - try to synchronize a kostura bang with your starbase construction to give it extra time to set up.
Well, a thing that i found out was...
you can make multiple starbases in a suns gravity well!!
don't know how many but i have got up to 4 Tulip starbases going
Interesting. Test and see if the carrier heals an unfinished one as well. I mean, I already know it heals an unfinished one if it has taken damage. But will it put hit points on it above and beyond what it is supposed to have at that stage of its completion (you seem to be saying that the overseer WILL)?
You wouldn't use TEC or Advent anti-structure cruisers to take on a Vasari SB, either -- at least, not nearly as safely as against other SBs, since it's just going to close the distance unless it's distracted by a greater threat. Since a combat-oriented (vs. purely economic) Vasari SB is probably going to have a frontal shield, you'd want to swarm it with strikecraft and attack from multiple directions. Use a Nano-Disassembler to drop the armor to -6 first, Volatile Nanites to increase damage.
Also, it's somewhat safer to swarm with heavy cruisers and caps since Vasari SB's don't have a mass area attack like the TEC's exploding or the Advent's Mass Disorientation / Meteor Swarm.
Yes, I'm saying that Overseer will bring the Starbase above the number of hit points it should have at that specified moment of construction.
I.e. the Starbase is not considered having her maximum hull increased over time until it's constructed, but it is instead considered severely damaged at start and regenerating its hull max hit points and shield points over the construction period - which you can hasten with overseers.
I'll see if carrier works as well. It will be hard to notice, because the carrier heals, like, 300hit points over 10 seconds iirc, while 5 overseers heal 1250HPs (sorta, I can't be bothered with exact digits right now) instantly and another such number in a few seconds.
NOTE to dear Stardock/Ironclad - DO NOT TRY TO "FIX" THIS. The fact that you can use Overseers to quickly bring the starbase hit points up is the only reason it has any offensive potential. Otherwise the OP would be sadly correct - the starbase would be dead before it was 5% completed if you tried to use it against a defensive perimeter of a good player.
Edit : Here you go . It can be done a lot faster, I accidentally jumped overseers first so they autoattacked and had to turn a greater angle to heal the SB.
Four per player per star, one per player per any other type of gravity well. Well, other than the Vasari player being unable to build starbases in storms with the 'disable ability' property because 'deploy starbase' won't work. The former is known and working as designed, the Vasari/storm issue might be a bug.
NICE! Now all you need is an Advent mothership to restore the shields on it, heh.
if your fleet managedto wipe out the planet, where did you eed the starbase for?
it's like building assault cruisers when your fleet is big enough to do it on its own
i find it hard to believe you think the vasari starbase is weak, it's already imbalanced with its ability to move, and assault deployment makes it even worse
a few tips to make it to completion
#1: FIRST jump in your fleet, then when they left the system, jump in your colony frigate and build a starbase on its exit point DO NOT turn around, this'll only take valuable time and if enemy wants to kil the starbase it'll move towards it anyways (if you do want to build as far out as possible due to mines... or any other problem, move the ship further away from the planet b4 jumping to his planet, you'll also arrive further away)
#2: upon arrival "or before" put you fleet in local area mode, and keep them close to the building starbase carefull as they can still lure your ships.
#3: upgrade hull and shields first "also depends on the situation tough.."
#4: if enemy fleet is not engaging you in any way "and you manage to hold of their squads" then fully upgrade the starbase with hull/shields, weapons and perhaps even that repair ability,
#5: always be aware of what your enemy has, if he has assault cruisers your gonna be in trouble during construction,after completion and upgrades their near useless tough
keep in mind it takes LONGER to build in hostil and ennmeny systems.
i mean hostile and nertel systems.....
but it can move so if the enmmeny jumps to the other side the star base can stil guard the planet.
Dear Sir, please don't necro threads that have been dead for over one and a half years, thank you.
If you hint that you are going to build sb in enemy grav well you can force enemy to come to you where your subverters and fact that you can lay mines in enemy grav well make it prety sure that either his defending fleet will die or your orky will survive.
That's EXACTLY what I was trying to say for the past month! Vasari starbases are not the answer when it comes to assaulting another Vasari starbase. They require an Anti-Structure Cruiser; they could make it like a battering ram; heavy armor, heavy shielding, heavy firepower (only vs. structures), very costly but with a very, very short range (point blanc) and vulnerable to bombers.
I completely disagree. One of greatest strengths and at the same time weaknesses of vas sb is the fact that it moves. If you are not careful it will leave protective blanket of other defensive structures and just invite enemy to destroy them. And with no defensive struct vas sb (all sb are) is easy picking for bombers....
This thread is one and a half years old, for Heaven's sake. LET IT DIE IN PEACE!
but the initial point of the OP is wrong.
I know from expeariance.
an orky is PERFECT for the senerio where an enemy is so entrenched, that your fleet simply cannnot take on the enemy fleet+starbase... and the enemy cannot sally forth and defeat your fleet in a fair fight.
I was playing a game 2v2... my ally dropped, and it became a 2v1, and I was tec, and the 2 vasari simply could not take me on. (I got so close to destroying one of them.... ARRG....) but... eventually, it was 2v1, and they pushed me back to a very very hard chokepoint. I had 2 kols, 3 donovs, a lv6 marza, and an akkan, and a starbase that was max upgraded. They, of course, refused to engage my fleet (hehe, marza), and their strike craft were useless (hehe, kols).
what they ended up doing, was camping out on the edge of the gravity well, and building 2 orkys. I could not approach thier building sites because they had subverters, when i tried to attack them, they would just completly shut down my fleet... so eventually what happend is that they had 2 upgraded orkys attacking my stuff.... which, with the 3 donovs I was able to tank rather effectively... but the issue was, they had a good number of overseers that were able to heal thier orkies, so I couldnt do anything to them either.
basicly, instead of my hard choke point holding them back, it turned into thier 2 starbases holding me back.... and that was only one system. It would have taken everything I could ever have to take out those 2 starbases, and it was only 2 starbases... which left their fleet to do whatever they wanted to do.
If they didnt have pacts, I think I might have been able to do much better, but between the pacts and the mutual threat (omg... the ammount of resources they had was not even funny... I practicly had to station ogrovs on every single world because of the constant streams of colony ships they were sneaking around to annoying places.)
meh. nothing annoys me more than the thought that I cant figure out what i could have done differently... I think i needed more donovs to emp their subverters.
wait, what was the thread about again? oh, ya, right, orkys work. at least vs TEC.
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