I admit this post is a rant...
I really haven't played entrement since the first beta (way way way) back came out. I decided to give thing a try and have fun with these new star bases.
You know what I find? They are pointless at preventing people from running right through. I know there are damage costs, but I've seen a few people just go through and insta heal themselves with support ships. You might call that intellegent I guess, but it totally negates the cost of trying to create a chokepoint if they can go around the sb and jump to the next system with almost no penalty anyways.
With that said, the only use I see of a SB is fear factor, and holding the planet its built on. As for creating a choke point.. good luck. No game I've played yet has it actually done that. Which means I can not lay one and go fight on a another area. The one time I saw a Sb work as a choke point was in unison with mines, because the mines when placed right can deal damage if they try to go around the base... Even that is limited though.
I think there should be an adjustment for this. Weather its antimatter drain, disabling abilities for a duration after jumping past a base.... I don't know. I just think as it is, they do not protect a choke point adequately... or at all.
Not to mention that the vasari base is mobile and able to move with the fleet trying to run through.
About the hard choke thing, if you could just plop down a hard choke ('plop' assuming its late game, of course its expensive') then so much of the strategy is gone! You can completely forget about that part of your empire? I wouldnt want that. This example isn't at all proportionate to the hard choke thing, but if you could research a 'fire novalith cannon' ability for the arcova scout frigate, wouldnt that be stupid too? The point is that that much power concentrated in one place without making SERIOUS sacrifices on other fronts would make this simply a real-time game
P.S. can someone make a scout cannon mod plz??
[IE] Qul RBeast38/superfingers
Well.. to me the issue is not so much %100 choke maybe, but the fact that right now it is virtually 0%.
Last games I play the advent did something where they moved past a base, I had a smaller fleet nearby and thought I could get close in time, but immediately after they jumped all his units heal to full in seconds. I have no idea how it was done, it just was.
So in the end, his fleet trotted right past my sb, and healed the next jump over, meaning my smaller fleet was trash. Even if I had my fleet in the well with the sb, he could have probably moved past and done battle next door.
I undesrtand this idea of mines, pji, and so on.. but I don't know if is is still enough to make goin around a sb too costly to try. The point of a SB choke is to to force a battle in a system - I think anyways. With the way it is, the cost of going around is so small that there is no reason to actually fight AT the planet unless you are after the specific planet.
Besides, with having a small fleet.. perhaps larger if you know the enemy's fleet, upgraded mines, upgraded sb, and so on.. for that cost, why not have another fleet that can actually follow the guys when they move on?
FSTrent (and anyone else interested), here are the steps necessary to make and implement the disable phase jump ability. (bear with me as this will be a LOT of text)
____________________BEGIN EXPLANATION____________________________
First how to create the ability for use:
1.) Create a new text file called "AbilityHyperspaceDisable".entity and paste the following (make sure to leave 1 extra empty line at the end of the file (meaning after - infoCardIcon "" hit enter once)):
TXTentityType "Ability"buffInstantActionType "ApplyOrRemoveBuffToSelf"instantActionTriggerType "AlwaysPerform"buffType "BuffHyperspaceDisableSpawner"effectInfo effectAttachInfo attachType "Invalid" smallEffectName "" largeEffectName "" soundID ""toggleStateOnNameStringID "IDS_ABILITY_HYPERSPACEDISABLEACTIVE_NAME"toggleStateOnDescStringID "IDS_ABILITY_HYPERSPACEDISABLEACTIVE_DESCRIPTION"needsToFaceTarget FALSEcanCollideWithTarget TRUEmoveThruTarget FALSEisUltimateAbility FALSEmaxNumLevels 1levelSourceType "FixedLevel0"aiUseTime "Anytime"aiUseTargetCondition "Any"isAutoCastAvailable TRUEisAutoCastOnByDefault FALSEpickRandomPlanetToExploreForAutoCastTarget FALSEignoreNonCombatShipsForAutoCastTarget TRUEonlyAutoCastWhenDamageTakenExceedsPerc 0.000000useCostType "AntiMatter"antiMatterCost Level:0 0.000000 Level:1 0.000000 Level:2 0.000000cooldownTime Level:0 0.000000 Level:1 0.000000 Level:2 0.000000orderAcknowledgementType "ONGENERALORDERISSUED"researchPrerequisites NumResearchPrerequisites 0nameStringID "IDS_ABILITY_HYPERSPACEDISABLE_NAME"descStringID "IDS_ABILITY_HYPERSPACEDISABLE_DESCRIPTION"hudIcon "HUDICON_ABILITY_BOOSTRESOURCEEXTRACTION"smallHudIcon "HUDICON_ABILITY_BOOSTRESOURCEEXTRACTION_ACTIVE"infoCardIcon ""
2.) make a new text file named "BuffHyperspaceDisableSpawner".entity and paste the following (again adding the 1 extra empty line at the end of the file)
TXTentityType "Buff"onReapplyDuplicateType "PrioritizeOldBuffs"buffStackingLimitType "ForAllPlayers"stackingLimit 1allowFirstSpawnerToStack FALSEbuffExclusivityForAIType "ExclusiveForAllPlayers"isInterruptable FALSEisChannelling FALSEnumInstantActions 0numPeriodicActions 1periodicAction actionCountType "Infinite" actionIntervalTime Level:0 2.500000 Level:1 0.000000 Level:2 0.000000 buffInstantActionType "ApplyBuffToTargetsInRadius" instantActionTriggerType "AlwaysPerform" buffType "BuffHyperspaceDisableTarget" targetFilter numOwnerships 1 ownership "Enemy" numObjects 2 object "CapitalShip" object "Frigate" numSpaces 1 space "Normal" numConstraints 0 range Level:0 50000.000000 Level:1 0.000000 Level:2 0.000000 maxTargetCount Level:0 -1.000000 Level:1 -1.000000 Level:2 -1.000000 effectInfo effectAttachInfo attachType "Invalid" smallEffectName "" largeEffectName "" soundID ""numOverTimeActions 0numEntityModifiers 0numEntityBoolModifiers 0numFinishConditions 1finishCondition finishConditionType "OwnerChanged"
3.) make 1 more new text file named "BuffHyperspaceDisableTarget".entity and paste the following (and 1 more time adding that extra empty line at the bottom again):
TXTentityType "Buff"onReapplyDuplicateType "PrioritizeOldBuffs"buffStackingLimitType "ForAllPlayers"stackingLimit -1buffExclusivityForAIType "NotExclusive"isInterruptable FALSEisChannelling FALSEnumInstantActions 0numPeriodicActions 0numOverTimeActions 0numEntityModifiers 0numEntityBoolModifiers 1entityBoolModifier "DisablePhaseJump"numFinishConditions 3finishCondition finishConditionType "FirstSpawnerNoLongerHasBuff" buffTypeToQuery "BuffHyperspaceDisableSpawner"finishCondition finishConditionType "OutOfRange"finishCondition finishConditionType "OwnerChanged"
4.) Add these 4 entries to the end of the file English.str (and increase the count at the top by 4 too, and as above leave an extra blank line at the end of the file):
StringInfo ID "IDS_ABILITY_HYPERSPACEDISABLEACTIVE_NAME" Value "Stop Phase Space Jamming."StringInfo ID "IDS_ABILITY_HYPERSPACEDISABLEACTIVE_DESCRIPTION" Value "Ships are once again allowed to phase jump."StringInfo ID "IDS_ABILITY_HYPERSPACEDISABLE_NAME" Value "Begin Phase Space Jamming."StringInfo ID "IDS_ABILITY_HYPERSPACEDISABLE_DESCRIPTION" Value "Jams the Phase space engine on enemy ships preventing phase jumps."
5.) (if making this mod for entrenchment), add the above three names (including the .entity and in quotes) to the "entity.manifest" file (I added mine in alphabetical order when I first converted to entrenchment1.01, I'm not sure if that's necessary or not...it works though)
6.) Create a "MyMod" folder (or whatever you want to call it if you're not using someone elses mod) within the {ModPath} for your computer; create a subfolder called "GameInfo" within "MyMod" and put the 3 .entity files within; create a "String" subfolder within "MyMod" and put the "English.str" file in there; and finally put the entity.manifest file within the "MyMod" folder.
If you're adding this to someone elses mod, just add the new entity files to their GameInfo folder; do step 5 to their "entity.manifest" file; and add those 4 string entries to their "English.str" file (as well as add 4 to their count)
__________________________________________________________________
OK those steps (well and selecting the mod ingame of course) just make the ability ready for use by... whatever can use abilities. The following steps show how to add the ability to various things and some tips for doing so.
1.) Think of something you want to add this ability to such as the Vasari's Phase Jump Inhibitor ("PLANETMODULE_PHASEORBITALJUMPBLOCKER.entity") and open it up (the txt version, not the binary one... if you don't have the txt version, convert the one from the sins install directory)
1a.) decide where you want the button to show up in-game (TOP row 1st square 2nd squar etc to 5th square), and place the following text within the quotes after that ability#-1 within the entity file of whatever you're adding the ability to without the parenthesis (AbilityHyperspaceDisable). Since that last sentence was a bit convoluted, here's an example using the Vasari's PLANETMODULE_PHASEORBITALJUMPBLOCKER.entity:
open the file: pretend you want this new button to be in the 3rd square (the phase disruption icon is in square 1 which is ability:0 ), so type/paste AbilityHyperspaceDisable within the quotes after "Ability:2". Save and close the file. Add this file as well to your little mod (only 4 files in GameInfo, the 1 changed "entity.manifest" file in "MyMod", and the changed "English.str" in the "String" folder), load up the game, load up the mod, start a new game as Vasari, create a Phase Jump Inhibitor, click the button once (to turn it on), and enjoy the stuck enemies!
INFORMATION: Structures (both tactical and civilian) have their abilities listed at the top of their ".entity" files; Capital Ships and Starbases Ditto; Fighters abilities show up at the very bottom of their corresponding "squad__.entity" file, and Frigates abilities show up really close to the bottom of their ".entity" files.
If you want to be able to use this ability, it must be in an ability slot that is visible in game (for fighters/frigates/structures, this can be any of the five, as all five spots are unoccupied in-game...except for abilities of course) For starbases and Capital ships though you only have 4 visible spots (the fifth is for the upgrade button for starbases and the ability-management button for capital ships)... Don't worry though! this just means you need to move one of that items PASSIVE abilitlies into spot 5 and put the AbilityHyperspaceDisable in its old spot (abilities in spot 5 are still there, you just can't click them cuz of the other button overwriting them.... passives don't have to be clicked to work)
so because of the above paragraph, this is what I did myself:
all starbases have the passive "AbilityDestabilizeHyperspace" ability. move this to Ability:4 (which is 5), and put the new ability in its old spot
all 3 races have at least 2 capital ships with at least 1 passive ability. Move that passive to Ability:4(which is 5), and put the new ability in its old spot (if you absolutely must have this phase-stopping ability on a capital with no passives, you will have to either A.) replace one of its clickable abilities with this one, or B.) Make this ability passive and just put it in spot 5 (ability:4) I made it toggleable so I could turn it off to let them run away if I was attacking with a monstrously larger force.
____________________END OF EXPLANATION________________________________
well that's it for that. In case you're interested, I also found out how to make it so when playing as a vasari, I can use phase stabalizers to go from a planet to that systems Star (if it has a starbase with the phase stabalizer upgrade): If interested, keep reading. If not, skip the rest of this post
_________________BEGIN PHASE JUMP TO STAR EXPLANATION___________________
I altered 3 files. I'm pretty sure only 1 is needed, but I did all three at once (for various reasons), and since everything was working the way I wanted I didn't want to expirement. I'll list the steps in importance:
1.) I feel confident betting this is the only change needed for this to work: Open "BuffPhaseGateStarBaseSelf.entity"; look in the "instant action" section; look in the "target filter" section; the 5th and 6th lines down in this section say (numObjects 1) and (object "Planet") respectively. Just make the "1" a "2", and make a newline after "planet" that says (object "Star"); save and close the file... add it to your mod (in the GameInfo folder)
2.) If step 1 doesn't do the trick by itself, this step will more than likely finish it: Open "BuffPhaseGateModuleSpawnerCaster.entity", and repeat the steps from above
3.) If steps 1 and 2 don't work completely, this third step will finish it (as these are the only 3 things I changed): Open "AbilityPhaseGateStarBase.entity", and change it's useCostType from "antimatter" to "Passive". when you do that, you also need to delete the next 8 lines (these are the entry for 3 levels of antimattercost, and 3 levels of cooldowntime). You will also need to open "BuffPhaseGateStarBaseSelf.entity"; change the bottom variable "numFinishConditions" to 0, and delete the following 6 lines (1 = finishCondition,2 = finishConditionType "TimeElapsed", 3 = time, 4= Level:0 ??.000000 5= Level:1 ??.000000 6= Level:2 ??.000000 (the file should have 1 empty newline after "numFinishConditions 0", and then nothing else)
Save both files (abilityPhaseGateStarBase and buffPhaseGateStarBaseSelf) close them and add them to your mods GameInfo folder.
______________END EXPLANATION____________________
Voila, now you can phase jump from a planet with a phase gate to that planet's star (if you have a starbase upgraded with phasegates there).... not sure if it works for the ship version too as I don't build those ships. If the above 3 steps don't make it work, you could probably make it a passive (always on) ability too! )
Just some extra information about the above Jump blocking: even though I removed the constraint "CanBeJumpBlocked", those stupid little scouts can still get by once they've researched "unstoppable phase jumps"... so they'll still light up your planets behind your frontline Also, you can adjust the range to whatever you want. My 50K covers the bulk of planetary gravity wells completely and a whole phase lane in a star's grav well
I dont know why, but starbases dont seem that costly to me (unless we're talking fully maxing them out). So rather then just having a frontline sb, place a few in the next couple of systems they may try to go after, you probably wont even need to upgrade it more then once or twice. You should have hangers and repair bays in the next few systems anyway. Defend in layers, not just one spot.
No not realy, you cant stop full assault fleet with vasari "small fleet" shizzle, while you can wipe entire fleet with TEC thinggy.
Tec SB forces your enemy either jumping in one by one and rushing, or suiciding the whole shit into big bomb.
This is assuming the person is dumb enough to use ships to attack a TEC SB. I pretty much skip past the TEC SB now after learning about the bomb.
Yes the game comes up with ever more clever ways to punish stupidity. I only ever lost 5 starfishes to TEC self destructing starbase, and that was intentional.
Precisely, It will take a much larger offensive fleat to take on a single choke point. The players will play sim city behind the choke points and build offensive fleats that won't matter because the choke point with max tactical slots, a fully built starbase, repair stations, and a large fleat with 2-3 factories are going to hold off nearly anything you throw at it. Pointless game in my opinion. I think the point to the game is to be a bit "uneasy" about getting hit from behind...that is the point...this is why there is tactical slots on planets to buy time and also phase upgrades.
yes but any other SB preform abaut as poorly against assault force alone, TEC SB stand best chanse of actualy killing fleet if positioned right.
[quote who="FSTrent" reply="8" id="2098153"]Tec SB forces your enemy either jumping in one by one and rushing, or suiciding the whole shit into big bomb.This is assuming the person is dumb enough to use ships to attack a TEC SB. I pretty much skip past the TEC SB now after learning about the bomb.[/quote]
So what if the next planet also has a Starbase? You just lost all AM and 50% of your fleet's hull and now there's another SB right in front of you. Sure, you can jump away again, but now your ships are as good as dead and any mop-up fleet can kill them. A Dunnov that crushes your shields and some strike craft or LRMs will do the trick. The second SB doesn't even need many upgrades, it's just there for the damage when doing another jump.
Also: remember that a chokepoint will almost always have a PJI and at least a small fleet to defend it. You can ignore the SB, but you'll be damaged when you try to run to the next planet. And if you actually get to the next planet, the enemy will be right on your tail and you'll be much weakened.
I found it much more effective to use a starbase to force your enemy along a particular path. I put a starbase In the smack dab middle of the jump arc to one of my planets (in an inihabitable system). Then, in my system, I placed mines on either side. I then placed 4 rail guns in the clear corridor, and 2 guarding the mine feilds. With that set up, I managed to crush a pirate attack with no use of ships whatsoever.
Then, A similar thing happened when I had 2 starbases on the oposite sides of a star. There were only 3 jumps into the star's grav well, 2 on one side of my starbases, 1 on the other. The starbases forced my enemie to either go up and arround the star (which in my experience takes longer), or go arround the starbases by jumping to the other jump point. This had the WONDERFUL effect of causing damage to their ships, and buying me time.
Its also useful to place starbases in chokepoints deep in enemie territory (if your playing on big maps). That disrupts their trade routes and how their reinforcements travel.
the VAS sb performs the best out of EVERY SB siddy..idk what your talking about. ive destroyed fleets of 100 ilums + support with vas sbs. if anything the TEC sb has the short end of the stick without final protocol
Why take out the starbase when you could simply have two kosturas? Kosturas create phase nodes so you could simply jumpo in from a well with a phase stabilizer, and after capturing a single planet and constructing a second stabilizer the chokepoint is void.
All sieges can be broken with superweapons, this is why they are here. Why go through a chokepoint when you can go around?(Kostura)
Why send a fleet when you can send a warhead?(Novalith)
Why send your legions when you can send their will?(Deliverance engine)
Many multi star games boil down to superweapons and end game I have to say that the kostura cannon is the best.
And hard chokes will plainly have counters as would all aspects of the game.
Oh and as astex, there is no strategy in this game as I've seen, is been fighting rock with rock to date, until players liek raging amish come up with solution.
A SB with max-SC upgrades will rip into any fleet and knock out atleast a cap or two before they get through. Build a phase inhibiter and some more SC hangers and see how that fleet thats trying to run through does.
The thought of choke points in space is completely ridiculous. How stupid...all the vastness and you have to go through a tiny 'hole' to get to your opponents planets... I would hate that
A SB should be able to protect A planet but not several. You either need a MOBILE defense or static defenses at everyplanet (the former would be cheaper)
So, if they rush past you, heal, and move on, why not put a starbase behind the 1st one for a (pardon my humor) "2-ply" or even "3-4-ply" layer of protection... that way, the 2nd starbase doesn't have as much hull to go through w/ the enemies fleet.
I dunno, just trying to help
Koda0 (^)
I liek this thread so I'll bump it.
I think someone needs to open a sb nerf/buff poll
I think that SB's are just fine (Maybe the Vasari one could move a bit slower, llike speed 450 to 400 but still) The only thing I find wrong w/ starbases is that if you have more than one weapon, the SB will only engage enemies inside it's original area of attack. (For example, I just upgraded my Argonev to have Missiles, along w/ Beams and Lasers, but it only attacks enemies inside the Lasers' range, not the Missiles' range, meaning I just wasted part of my credits on a long-range attack when It only attacks at medium range)
But, I don't know a way to fix this other than to represent each weapon individually on the tactical graph...
Also Marauders with their speed and phase stabilizing ability.
Also don't forget each races SB has upgrades that make chokepoints more damaging to a fleet passing through. TEC can build small fleets and has an upgrade to buff nearby fleets considerably. Sink some points in those two and you can build fleets that can attack passing enemies and then chase them down after they jump and lose all AM and some health (which there is also a research that increases the damage taken when jumping out of the well). Advent can upgrade strikecraft to a pretty sizeable amount to do some damage to passing fleets. Lets also not forget the meteors it can throw and the range of mass disorientation. This + homing mines= pretty deadly chokepoint. Vasari Sbs can move and attack enemy fleets, + gravity mines + mines = Ouch for passing fleets.
Each starbase can make a nasty place to just try and bypass, so its a good Idea to protect places that your opponent has to go through (chokepoints).
Why is there even a debate about this?
And and with scouts? I saw a couple of well placed mines reduce an army of 275 scouts to 77. I think they're vastly under rated by a lot of people.
Starbases aren't just instantly awesome, it requires something extra on your part, thought.
Mines or scouts are underrated?
And i would loved to have seen (and laughed my *** off at) the player making the blunder of diving scouts into mines. lol lol
You do need scouts however to detect the mines so they and other ships can destroy them before they destroy you
Mines
I dunno about that, the Unfair TEC Ai in most of my games are MASSIVE mine spammers, as In, my 1300 size fleet phase jumps to a planet, gets hit by mines, fights the defenses there, takes the planet, etc.... By the time all that is said and done, I'm down to 600-500, depending on how tough the Starbase there is, and how close to it my fleet arrived at. My point is, mines ARE underated... by humans. Ai, though, that's a whole 'nother story...
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
