I'm curious... Not that it would matter much, but would the setting for Elemental be pre-technological Altaria? If so, that could be a nice, cool tie in for GalCiv fans.
I'm still confused if its before or after Gal Civ. If its before, there should be other non-humans about (since humans were the "youngest race" in the Gal Civ stories) if its after (i.e. the technology of altaria was wiped out by the cataclysm, which is how I read the story) then well, its post-destruction altaria.
I'm still hoping that the Elemental story is beside the GalCiv story rather than before or after it--for two main reasons. First, even though I love a great many hard science fiction writers, when I'm in sword-and-sorcery mode, 'technology' really rubs me the wrong way. Second, and perhaps more importantly, I don't believe it would do either game series a service to make them tightly connected at the 'UI content' level. Close narrative connections between GalCiv and Elemental would doubtless spawn a bunch of needless ranting from folks who are polarized one way or othe other on the 'science-magic spectrum.'
From what I understand it is just after the fall of the arnor, when the younger races are just getting a foothold on their planets.
However, to my knowledge it had mainly been implied they are related rather than flat out stated by anyone at Stardock.
I'm with GW on this one.. I read the Elemental Inspirations pieces as being in a parallel universe sorta thing (like in those crazy episodes of star trek where all the characters were there but in totally different situations and with different personalities), and nothing in them explicitly contradicted that. I hope that remains a legitimate way of viewing it as I have issues with placing a fantasy world as a planet within a sci fi universe.
For me, given the scope of something as epic and vast as the Gal Civ universe it kinda makes the runnings around of people on one specific planet seem inconsequential and kinda sad. I mean you may come to dominate your tiny little pissant world with your "magic" but you're still screwed if one of the great races turns up in orbit with 10,000 battle cruisers and decides they want to turn your world into a giant marshmallow factory! In the majority of fantasy one tends to get the impression that the world on which the action takes place is the entire scope of anyone's universe (kinda like the geocentrism that used to exist on earth) .. and for me that really seems more in fitting with the philosophies and technologies present in the vast majority of fantasy settings.
Ya, I hope there isn't much of a direct connection with Gal Civ. I just don't think that magic and sci fi have much buisness being in the same continuity. An examble of how it has worked though is Warhammer 40k, which might be what they are going for...but even that has hardly any magic + Gal Civ story line has nothing to do with magic. I just don't think it would make since for them to go..."and ya, magic has been part of Gal Civ all along, you just didn't know about it?!?"
edit: Something I just noticed that I didn't pick up on is that one of the kingdoms names is Kingdom of Altar! I suppose this is were this Idea came from
We've already had this discussion. Elemental and GalCiv are two seperate universes.
I maintain that the best comparison would be Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000.
AH, I was unaware that it had already been discussed. Oh well. I don't see that the connection would have caused a problem as this game would have been set far in the past when compared to the GalCiv games. No tech... I had just remembered hearing something about a possible connection and wanted it clarified.
Krull did a pretty good job of combining Fantasy with Science Fiction.
I don't have a problem with this taking place on Altaria just after the war between the Arnor and the Dread Lords. That is the way this appears to be set up by the Journals I read. It really appears like a cross between that and the JRR Tolkien universe backdrop, based on the essence and how things are set up in the Journals.
It's been discussed, but I'd hardly call it "clarified," and I'm not always sure I'd want it to be all that clear. Elemental aims to be more story-oriented than GalCiv has been so far, and any serialized story line benefits from flexibility. Avoiding specific, linear links between Elemental story chunks and GalCiv story chunks will give both titles more freedom to work within their different genres. I suspect that if the devs did indeed spend a version or two letting them both work "in their own little world," they'd lay good groundwork for an eventual Elemental-GalCiv crossover series that would evoke things like Warhammer 40k or Martha Wells' Il-Rien stories.
I'm in agreement with GW on this one as well. I feel a direct connection to Galciv would be dubious at best, an over utilization in some sense. The parallel universe idea has a lot of potential on the other hand, that could be very entertaining while still being original and focused on fantasy.
Ya, I just don't feel like Magic has a place in a game like Gal Civ. Without aleast a few overt refrences to Magic by now I think it could do some serious damage to the series.
This argument is so last century, Might and Magic was a hybrid of fantasy and sci-fi.
It sucks that I made an accurate statement, where's the room for hyperbole! Even millenia wouldn't work!
I'm pretty sure Brad has commented in the past that it's not a direct se/prequel, but it does use a lot of the same characters and plot elements. Sort of in the GalCiv "multiverse" in the same manner as the stories he wrote, but not directly related to the game. That's just on my own foggy recollection though so I could be wrong.
If Brad used names, plot elements, and story chunks from GalCiv, I wouldn't mind. If the two were directly linked, I would have to agree with GW here: SF and fantasy just don't mix in my book!
I wouldn't make an absolute statement that science fiction and fantasy don't mix. It's just that doing it really well is very, very hard, and doing it as backstory for a TBS game just raises that difficulty level because you have so little prose to work with.
I thought the way he phrased it was pretty vague. he said something like
However, the intended relationship between said various games is not particularly addressed.
But I think 'no relation' is the general agreement that many of us have come to have.
Considering my friend Grant's idea for a sci-fi/fantasy combo game or mod (I won't bore you will the details. Unless you want them...), I think it might be better to say that sci-fi/fantasy is sort of its own genre, as opposed to just a combination of the two. However, I want Elemental to be a pure-fantasy game, and it has been promoted as a pure-fantasy game, so hopefully that is what we will get. (Knowing that the Stardock people read these forums, waht we want is probably what we will get.
Sci-fi and Fantasy at their cores aren't much different; you guys are simply over reacting. It's funny to hear someone say an enchanted gem with the ability to shoot forth flames is that different from a nano-flamethrower or that a dragon is much different from a reptililan alien. There are also plenty of bleed-togethers such as steampunk or just High Fantasy with technology in the mix. Airships in many fantasy worlds are an example.
If you think about it honestly, would you really think having magic in our (real) past would stunt the development of technology? Doubtful, if anything such a readily available source of energy or power would of increased the speed of it's development. Peirs Anthony does a great job showcasing just that in his Incarnations of Immortality series where magic was discovered long ago, earth is currently a bit in the future from our real present, and magic is the fourth universal power. Car dealers compete with flying carpet dealers, each with their own perks.
The only limitations on anything in an imaginary world is the ability of the writer, it's really that simple.
Now don't get me wrong, I love Fantasy much more than Sci-fi, but in the end my honest opinion is that it won't make much of a difference. I'm all for making things unique and interesting however, so if technology creeps into this game you have my vote. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers or anything, it's just that in my humble opinion it really doesn't make much of a difference gameplay-wise in the end and if done right will only make the game that much more diverse and unique.
I see technology and magic as fundamentally different concepts because magic, at its core, requires human interaction while technology, at its core, does not. For example: in a sci-fi world, you can have an automated defense system that monitors your facility and shoots down anyone who gets near it. In a fantasy setting, you would actually have a mage (or group of them, more likely) constantly scrying and ready to launch spell. In essence, in a sci-fi setting the "power" comes in the form of tools that anyone and anything can potentially use. In fantasy, however, if you take away the guiding intelligence, it all comes apart (Return of the King, anyone?). The fact is, they are seperate, and mixing them creates something that is not one or the other.
Even though I still want the Elemental UI itself to avoid language that seems "technological," I have to completely disagree with your tech vs. magic mini-definition here. Your core flaw is in mistaking automation for an exclusive trait. In both stories and the real world, plenty of 'technology' requires a live staff to be of use, e.g. a 19th-century telegraph system. In stories, plenty of magic 'just works,' e.g. warding spells, death curses, etc..
I suppose so... forgot about curses and other lingering enchantments.
For those who post about SciFi and Fantasy/Magic not mixing, I say this. There'd be no mix.... We're talking far enough in the past that, for the entities we'd be interacting with, there'd be no technology..least not in a sense of the tech we see in GalCiv. It's already established in the GalCiv games that certain races, like the Alarians, possess the inherent ability to perform "magic". So there's a mix right there that makes sense. It's all about perspective. Far enough in the past, many of the tech we use today would be considered magic. I don't see a problem linking the two... I think it would be cool. The distance between the two in the timeline would also mean you could practically do whatever you want to do to the story and not effect the other...unless you destroyed an entire race or cracked the planet that exists in the "future". Doesn't matter either way to me as I'll LOVE it no matter which way it goes if it's a true to the spririt of Master of Magic.
For me if they occur in the same fictional "universe", it is mixing them. Also, "science fantasy" is its own genre that does not fit into one or the other, and should be treated as such.
I'm not trying to flame, but that's just one opinion. I happen to think they mix quite well...and it's fun to see how the creative talents blend them. Again, that'smy opinion, not necessarily the "right" one. So if there are more people out there of the same opinion, there'd at least be some audience for the sort of thing I'm talking about.
I am well aware of the fact that there have been sucessful science-fantasy mixes. I just like to forget about technology every once and a while and just enjoy pure fantasy.
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