I know that most people on here are only really interested in online play, and fair enough. But me - I'm a sins comp-stomper. I play my fps games online, but with sins I prefer to play the AI and stack the odds against me. I like the challenge of beating back constant attack by an enemy with massive numerical superiority. "Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers".
Anyway, this is just a quick collection of tips for playing against the AI when heavily outnumbered (probably with multiple hard AIs teamed against you). It assumes you are playing as TEC but most is transferrable. The defenses of entrenchment completely alter the balance of power in these scenarios compared to vanilla sins, so lets explore them
The start (same as vanilla sins):
The most important thing for the start is to get your empire frontiers established quickly. Build a few scouts and set them exploring. Decide beforehand how far you are going to go in claiming neutral planets. *Do not push too far!* In early-mid game (the toughest part) it's easier to defend a smaller well-connected territory than it is to defend a larger one, even with the larger economy the large one brings. You ideally want a small number of closely-grouped worlds with the fewest number of entry points. Asteroids are much easier to defend than planets, so if you can use one of these as a choke-point then go for it.
One you have picked your planets, go capture them ASAP. If you feel you can get away with it, a colony cap-ship is the way to go, but I usually end up going for the kol instead, because it's so durable that I can use it as a damage soak throughout the early game. Once you have a planet, get a few (~5) gauss turrets up as soon as possible.
As far as building, the first thing you want is a few light frigates (4 will capture an asteroid without loss). When you go to capture a neutral planet, jump the cap ship in a couple of seconds earlier and it will draw most of the fire. After this, you will want two civic research stations, since you need to get trade research performed quickly, and also may need volcanic / arctic exploitation research. If you can build 3 trade ports quickly, that will give a nice boost to your early-game credit income.
Mantra for the early game: Take only what you can hold, but hold whatever you take.
Mid-game (early):
This usually covers say 30 - 90mins game time, in a large map against multiple AIs. The point here is survival. I'm always tempted to push more effort into building up my economy, but every time I do I get crushed. You need to focus on defense. Get 15 gauss turrets in each frontline planet ASAP (this will slow down the typical early enemy fleet well enough for you to replace your losses). Ideally you want to build enough in the way of defenses that the enemy hold back their attack. If they attack and you constantly have to replace turrets / ships, then your overstretched economy may completely stall, and you will go under.
Once you have the enemy temporarily held at bay, it's time to solidify those positions. Go for starbase research as soon as possible (3 military stations required). Once you have a starbase and 15+ gauss turrets you will be okay. One point though - as soon as you drop a starbase in a frontline location, IMMEDIATELY upgrade its structural integrity by one point. A basic starbase is just a sitting duck, but with one upgrade it becomes a lot more durable. Other upgrades can be done as the enemy fleet enters, but always go for structural integrity first. You can upgrade the weapons once the battle is in full swing, but weapons aren't much use if the base is just debris.
At this stage, I find a small fleet of one kol and a few LRMs are quite effective. When the enemy attacks, jump in with your kol, move near to the static defenses, and try to draw their fire. If some of them do target the kol, you can take some damage and then withdraw it, splitting the fleet and lightening the load on your defenses.
Mid-game (later):
So your empire is protected from the constant onslaught by a couple of starbases and a cubic assload of gauss turrets. Now you can really focus on your economy. As I said earlier, it's tempting to try and skip forwards to this phase, but depending on just how outnumbered you are it might not be possible.
Anyway, with TEC this means two things: Trade ports and pervasive economy. Against a large number of enemies, pervasive economy is essential, and will provide you masses of credits. So, find room somewhere for 6 civic research stations, and get development mandate research done. Then place two more civic labs and work towards PE. Other than this, place as many trade ports as your planets will allow. Always place a trade port on dead asteroids, to help maintain trade routes. If you only have a few planets and space is at a premium, then place star bases on your inner worlds also, and fill them with trade and ship construction upgrades. Go for the black market price reduction research option early too, as the mass of credits will mean you're buying from the black market frequently.
Here you will want to build up your fleet. I try to hold off building an offensive fleet until my economy is close to complete. As soon as you start working through the fleet supply ranks your income takes a nosedive, so try to stick to just one or two research jumps (<400 FS) until your economy is in shape.
During this phase don't forget defense, or you will pay the price with 3-fleet co-ordinated attacks coming your way. Upgrade your starbases (structural first, then hanger, then weapons when the enemy jumps in). Max out your tactical slots with repair bays and gauss turrets. Research mines, and if you have enough cash or metal, then start laying them (see later for more on mines).
Late game:
Finally, when you have a fleet, you will be able to break out. Everyone has their own ideas for fleet formation, but against the AI I find that a mixture of capital ships, a lot of heavy cruisers, and "enough" support carriers works extremely well. The kodiaks dish out and soak up a lot of damage, the carriers provide a fighter screen, and the caps pin the fleet together. Again, I always jump in with my caps a few seconds earlier than the rest of the fleet (helps with mine clearing, and with the enemy targeting your capships first, which you can usually withdraw rather than losing).
The key tactic here is to attack the correct worlds. Attack by prefence a world which will act as a new choke point, cutting off a large section of enemy territory. You can then sit in this new position, heavily defend it (starport + gause + maybe mines). Once it is fortified you can work your way through the cut-off territory at will. This is the key basic tactic in entrenchment, and is only possible with the new defenses. It makes capturing territory a lot more methodical than in sins, where you could expect almost constant counter-attacks to newly captured worlds.
As well as an attack fleet, you will need a defense force. Your starbase and gauss turrets are powerful, but no match for a 3-enemy simultaneous attack with over 1000 fleet supply each. I have found that by far the best ship for the job is the Kol, backed with support carriers. I tried using kodiaks, but 4 kols seem to do the job better than 50+ kodiaks. Basically, the job of the defensive fleet is to draw as much fire as possible away from the static defenses, and if possible to split up the enemy fleet. The starbase and gauss turrets will dish out enough damage that you don't need to worry about dealing it out with your defense fleet. As in early game, the best tactic is to get stuck right into the enemy fleet as it's attacking your starbase position. If a large portion of the fleet is attacking one of your ships, withdraw to the edge of the well and see if that fleet will follow you. Also, keep replacing destroyed gauss turrets until all the constructor ships are gone. Try to place new turrets behind the older ones, to avid the construction ships being directly in the line of fire.
For the defense fleet, I try to have around 20 light carriers. Always build fighters - you just want to protect against bombers, the starbase will do the actual damage. The 14 fighter squads from the SB, the 40 from the carriers, and the ~10 from the kols should keep the enemy bomber number down to a minimum. I tried flak frigates, but they need to get into the thick of it to be effective and just don't last more than a few seconds. I might keep 4 or 5 kodiaks back in the next grav well, to jump in and go for any seige frigates which are navigated around the defenses.
In general:
Remember, when you have multiple enemies teamed against you, the only way to win out in the end is to out-economy them. For this, you will first need to destroy their ships a lot more efficiently than than they can destroy your defenses. Ie if they attack with a fleet worth 50,000 credits total, and do only 10,000 credits damage, then you're on the right path. Equal losses are not acceptable - at least not in defense. Pervasive economy is your friend (as TEC).
Don't over-stretch your economy. Playing with a smaller fleet and replacing losses is sometimes more effective than pushing up the fleet supply and being unable to replace what you have lost.
** CAPITAL SHIPS **
The TEC don't have the fleet-busting abilities of advent capitals, but they have a soild set of capitals to choose from. TEC capitals work best against the AI in groups of 4+ with a good supporting fleet. In entrenchment it's a little easier to level up cap ships, particularly if they're on defensive duty, as entire enemy fleets can be wiped out when attacking a well defended planet. Anyway, lets take a look at the options:
Kol battleship:
This is the most durable ship in the game. It has great armour and good shields / hull, but its real power comes from the adaptive shielding ability. This will block up to 35% of all damage even when shields are down, and will block 65% of all phase missile damage. At about level 5+ you're going to have enough antimatter to keep adaptive shielding active all the time, so a high level kol is very difficult to take out. At level 6+ you will get finest hour, which again can be almost kept active constantly. This further improves the defensive capabilities of the ship.
The kol also has the flak burst ability, which at high level can be quite damaging to strike craft. You can't rely on flak burst to make too much impact on an enemy strike wing, but if used effectively early in the air battle it can tip a close air battle your way. The final ability is the gauss gun. In my eyes this is a bit of an underpowered weapon for the antimatter it costs. That said, it can be a useful ability to have if you choose the kol as your starter capital - helping it clear neutral planets more quickly.
The kol does not deal out a huge amount of damage overall - it's really a defensive ship. I like to have 1 in every large capital fleet (6+ ships), as the kol will usually move in a little in front of the other capital ships and draw the bulk of the initial fire. Combined with the shield recharge of the dunov it can be an unstoppable tank, particularly against the vasari. If you want the enemy firing at any one of your ships, it's your kol.
Dunov battlecruiser:
Not particularly well armoured or otherwise defended, and not dealing out a lot of damage, you will build a dunov for its abilities only:
Shield recharge is the main ability you will want. A couple of dunovs in a capital fleet will seriously improve its durability, since it doesn't take too much antimatter, and can recharge quite a lot of shield points. The other ability of note is 'magnetise', which will cause enemy strike craft to go crashing into the target capital ship. Of similar effectiveness to the kol's flak-burst ability, it can help turn the ide of a close air war. Use it early on in the battle when enemy strike craft are at full strength in order the maximise the amount of damage you do.
The EMP charge can be useful against an advent fleet, for draining antimatter, but for the most part I leave that ability until last. At level six the dunov gets the 'flux field' ability, which greatly reduces antimatter cost for the rest of your fleet. This is an excellent ability to have, so a high level dunov is a very valuable ship to have.
I always like to keep at least 2 dunovs in a fleet. They're better deployed in pairs so they can restore each others shields. Try to keep them towards the back of the fleet - they are not so tough as other capitals, and can't repair their own shields. If you can spare the numbers, 4 kol + 2 dunov + ~20 light carriers make a fantastic defensive fleet.
Akken battlecruiser:
This is the TECs colony cruiser. Has good abilities, but isn't so tough. The obvious ability is 'colonise', but higher levels of this just give you a free extractor. This can save time when colonising planets, but isn't worth wasting ability points on IMO. The other 'normal' abilities are 'ion bolt' and 'targeting uplink'. Ion bolt is great to have in a fleet, as it disables a ship for a few seconds. This is great for persuing fleeing capital ships, as it gives your fleet time to catch up and cause damage. Targeting uplink improves the range and fire effectiveness of nearby ships, and is a great ability to have in a close fleet. I would choose to upgrade targeting uplink first as a priority, and then ion bolt (keeping colonise at one point).
The level 6 ability is 'armistice', which stops all craft in the area fighting for a while. If you can spot an enemy fleet on approach, you can send the akkan in to weaken them, but if you're already engaged in battle beware using it. Not too effective in a defensive battle either, unless you can use it out of range of your starbase.
I always have at least 1 akkan in every fleet. If you can get away with it in early game, this is the best choice of first ship. Colonise saves money on colony frigates, and later on TU will help with the range and damage of your LRM frigates. Also, ion bolt can help you get that early critical kill on the attacking enemy capital ship. That said, sometimes it's more important to capture neutrals quickly and establish solid defensive frontiers. In this case, you should go for the kol instead.
Sova carrier:
Not as good a carrier as the advent halcyon, but still a good ship. Obviously the main reason to build one is the (up to) 6 squadrens they hold. As far as abilities go, I really like their missile platform ability, and go for this first. For some reason, enemy heavy cruisers like to target these missile platforms, which is fine by me - let them waste their precious fire! Obviously the heavy strike craft option helps a little in the air war, but the level six ability is the real winner - rapid manufacturing instantly builds strike craft, which can help a lot especially now that combat SC build rate is severely reduced. It can really win an air war.
I hardly ever use embargo. In MP I hear it's used a lot, but against massed AI hordes it isn't very effective. Frontier worlds will be heavily fortified, and a single sova won't last long, and really won't steal all that much.
Marza deadnaught:
This is the TECs assault ship. It causes the most damage of the five, but isn't so durable. The 'radiation bomb' and 'incendiary shells' abilities improve damage, but aren't particularly game changing. The raze planet ability can be useful, but usually you'll be attacking a planet with several capital ships, so I'm rarely worried about planet bombing damage rate. The level six ability 'missile barrage' can cause great damage to a fleet of lighter frigates, which would be great for early game. Unfortunately by the time it has reached level 6 that window of opportunity will usually have passed.
I rarely build the marza. It could be useful if you have to clear neutrals really quickly, but then you would usually want a 'damage soak' ship aferwards, which the marza is not.
Okay, so, what should you build? I'm going to give a breakdown for an offensive fleet of sizes 4, 8 and 12:
4 cap ships: 1 akkan, 1 kol, 2 dunov
8 cap ships: 1 akkan, 1 kol, 3 dunov, 3 sova
12 cap ships: 2 akkan, 1 kol, 4 dunov, 5 sova
Obviously each one of these should be supported by a good fleet, including heavy cruisers, support carriers with enough fighters. Flak, support cruisers and repair cruisers can also be a useful edition in smaller numbers.
********************************************************
I will edit this post later to include specific information on:
* Use and placement of starbases
* Use of mines
I'll also try to include a few screenshots to better illustrate what I'm saying.
NICE GUIDE!! Thanks!
That's very informative, thanks.
This is great ! And you know what would be even greater ? A replay !
Great Guide!!!! As an exclusive TEC player vs the AI. I can say you done well!!!!
I would suggest though you dont underestimate the Akkan in a fleet either attacking or defending. The increase in range that it brings to the battle is Critical!!! With lvl 3 of this ability your LRF and Anti-sturcture ships can attack and destroy starbases and defense without taking return fire. On the defence end of things it allows your defences to hit those LRF and anti-strucutres. I think honestly the Akkan is one of the most importaint Caps for TEC in Entrechement.
That is my 2 cents. Cant wait to see the rest of your guide!
Yes, nice guide. I've avoided playing against more than 1 AI because if you do 2 or more they all seem to get a hard on for only the human player. Even with multiple stars. I also tend to go for hanger defences because they are fast and flexable but I will have to give turrents a try. They seem to work for the pirates.
After watching a MP replay I noted the heavy use of LRF (This was an Entrenchment replay of a 2v2 FFA). I started a new game and I too picked the Akkan as my cap. At first I would need to resupply my LRF until I started to add the Target Uplink ability. after that I became almost invincible. The LRF even took out a low level starbase with no problem. The range and total firepower add up quick with this combo. I haven't tried a Cielo Command Cruiser plus LRF combo yet but I would think that might do well in a pinch without a cap.
When I play against multiple AIs I pick one to be my "friend" and make a real effort to do all of the missions he requests. If you get him up to 100% friendly and sign all the treaties then that's one fewer AI to defeat.
I have to admit I do get caught up trying t please everybody. Doesn't work. I did play an easy AI just to get the swing of it on a 4 faction map. I picked the faction farthest from me as my friend which worked out in a win
Okay, added information about the TEC capships and LRM and their abilities Comments / debate welcome.
Carbon, you make a good point about the akkan and LRMs. The extra range can really make a difference. The only thing is, if you're fighting a defensive battle in close quarters with fixed defenses then range doesn't always make any difference.
I would add that getting multiple Marzas to level 6 is quite easy in Entrenchment as the CPU will just rebuild the starbases and at 400XP per pop, getting level 4 MArzas late game to level 6 is quite easy if you find non-upgraded starbases. then having 3 lvl 6 marzas dishing out 9000 damage is just a fleet buster.
Marza is definitely TEC's strongst capital ship in the early and middle game. Great damage output, fairly tough, and against the AI absolutely brutal with missile barrage. Late-game there are better picks (namely Kol with flak burst and Dunov with shield restore), but early game Marza is unparalleled for combat power and presence.
In my opinion, the only reason to ever get a Sova is embargo. If you want strike craft, get more light carriers. If you want missiles, get extra Javelis. Embargo is a priceless ability that can be used to drain a wealthy enemy world of cash, prevent it from building new units and structures while you fight, and earn you extra cash while you do it all. Sure, it won't help you win the battle, but in the long-run it will help you win the war. If you want to win a decisive battle, Sova is the wrong choice of capital ship.
Lol "Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers".
Can't agree with you here.
First, missle batteries. No, I don't care about missiles per se, but the dropped missile banks will draw the fire of enemy heavy cruisers. When you're heavily outnumbered, you want to do everything you can to draw the enemy guns onto things you don't care about. This is the biggest strength of the sova when playing multiple teamed AIs
Second - strike craft. Against the CPU cap ships will level up quickly, and at level 6 the instant strike craft rebuilding gives you a massive advantage in a drawn out air war, especially now that build rates have been heavily nerfed in combat. When fully loaded, the sova gives you almost as many srike craft for the 50 fleet cap as light carriers (6 vs 7), but these strike craft are a lot more effective (instant rebuild, +30% damage, +3 armour). I like as many of my fighters to come from sovas as possible.
Finally embargo: Against teamed AIs it's rare to find a neighbouring planet in which a sova would survive alone for long. Also, other than early game, you will want to be taking territory as quickly as possible so that you can thin out the numbers of enemies before they get to their maximum fleet sizes. There aren't many opportunities to spend 10mins in an enemy grav well.
Anyway, I see that the sova would be a poor choice in MP, or against an individual opponent, but against massed hard AIs it's a keeper
Once i setup the Fronts, research begins on the max number of capital ships. 2 fleets of 8 ships - 3 kol's, 2 dunov, 1 akkin, and either 2 marza or 1 marza / 1 carrier. Seems to work well vs 4 hard/unfair ai's. Also add in repair ships and command cruisers for support and the 8ship fleet is very tough.
Overall a very good post on setting up shop with TEC. Also adding in some 40hull/s repair structures behind those gauss and sb's is good too.
This is also with the Mad Scientist mod, i cant play w/o it now cause it makes capital ships much stronger as they should be. The Kol's with multiple banks firing away are devistating. Also turns star bases into Death Stars !
Your turtling tips against the AI have been working very well for me. So well I’m going to increase the AI level I’ve been playing at. I've been playing this way on regular Sins. The AI tends to respect turrents much more so than hanger defences because they will not invade my planets like they would againt fewer turrents with hanger defenses. Now I build turrents and 2 or 3 repair platforms almost exclusively.
A couple of tips I've found useful. Once the frontier or choke point is fortified with maxed out tactical then upgrade the logistics level. This gives you up to 3 constructor drones which helps to quickly rebuild tactical structures in the middle of an attack. An attacking fleet just can't keep up with 3 constructors running around rebuilding repair platforms and turrents.
Build at least 2 frigate factories in a gravity well. If you need to replace fleet then 2 factories can crank out replacements fast.
Also note incoming enemy ships before an attack. If they're just scout ships you'll be fine. If they're LF or stronger then get ready because the AI is probing that area for an attack. Don't think that just because you destroyed the ship they won't be coming back.
I agree. The Sova is often over looked but it is much more powerful than expected especially against the AI. Like you said the AI will focus fire on the missle batteries leaving the carrier alone. They do very well in pirate attacks and come away with higher shields and hull. Good point about the build rates too. Now that the LC has been nerfed it's impoved the value of the Sova. Just not in a way that I like. I still think they should level up in squadrons faster though. My 2 cents.
Glad you found the guide useful
This is a good point - with early-game attacks, as long as you have a few static turrets already, you can often replace your turrets right under their noses. If you build your turrets at the same rate they are destroyed, you can usually win the battle by attrition. Beware that this can put your economy on hold though, as you buy the metal for the turrets. As baron says, having 3 constructor ships will put you in a strong position to defend against a good early-game fleet (say a couple of capships and 30+ light frigates).
It's good to try and keep your constructor ships out of the firing range though, as they will not be rebuilt until after fighting stops in the grav well. I usually build my turrets a little further away from the planet than I might otherwise have, so I can rebuild behind the front line if I need to
When you are placing the "Cubic butt load" of turrents, are you clustering them around the SB? or splitting them with some to each side?
I'm guessing you do the defense research to upgrade them also early on?
I'm a fairly new player and greatly enjoying the game. Just trying to learn.
just one tactic I wanted to share against the AI. assuming you have diplomacy active, building starbases at your current allie's worlds, or anywhere there is a ceasefire, can be effective. If the cease fire should end, or the alliance end, you can cripple that oppenent.
when I did this(playing as TEC), I did full upgrades on the tradeport, hangers, and armor. The only system I had any problems with was one where the AI had a somewhat upgrded SB in also. Sent my fleet to support that fight, and that AI basically crumbled. The trade upgrades also added a bunch to credit income while waiting for the AI to drop the ceasefire (or waiting for the right time to drop it myself)
When building turrents I turn the autocast off. I find it too haphazard as it might place many turrents on the opposite side of the gravity well. My main concern early is covering the planet against seige frigates. Once I've got the planet covered I'll cover structures or turn the autocast back on and click away.
Not unless I've got resources and research time to spare. It's one of the last things I focus on upgrading but I will try it early once to see how it goes.
I've found if you lock the teams so each player is a separate team in the game options screen at the beginning the AIs will fight each other just as much as the human player. I've even seen them totally destroy another AI race. The only downside to this is that it denys you the option of doing missons for other players, so you can't make alies.
I'm going to have to disagree with your lack of confidence in the Marza Dreadnaught. Two of those beasts at level 6 (Which is fairly easy to do against the AI) can absolutely destroy any fleet imaginable with Missile Barrage. I've turned a fleet of roughly 1000 frigate and Higher class warships to a cloud of PC-crashing space debris with 2 marza dreadnoghts using Missile Barrage (Unfair AI). The Sova Carrier is the useless TEC ship, Avoid wasting fleet supply/capship crew at ALL costs on that stinker, until they make Cap Carriers competitive with Light Carriers.
Be careful though, i wouldn't focus so much on the Sova's but rather on kols or marzas. Just my 2 cents, but i feel that sovas, are a tad weaker than a cap should be.
Against 6 AI's in a game now, I am finding that my uber fleet consists of 2 Kol's, 1 Sova, 1 Akkan, 2 Dunov's, and 2 Marza's. No support, no escort, just the caps. Notice that this this is 8 caps, so I can make another identical fleet.
I use the various caps for defence until they get to lvl 6, and then join them together and attack. The hard AI cannot stop this fleet. Period.
Even in late game, the AI is somewhat frigate heavy. Two missile barrages, and EVERY frigate is toast. HC's and LC's are heavily damaged. Also with two ships using flak bursts, SC are gone. Two raze planet ships, and I can destory a fully HP-upgraded colony in about a minute. The fleet carrys a total of 21 squads, which I launch after I have wiped their SC with flak burst, and chases down and kills heavily damaged HC's and carriers while I bomb the planet. A fully upgraded SB doesn't stand a chance (though it will take about 3 minutes to kill).
The only problem with this setup is that I am getting bored with the repetition in wiping out 60+ more planets.
What order do you like to build your cap ships in?
One time I was farming the pirate planet to level up a Marza. It got to level 6 and I put missile barrage on auto cast. I only had 2 light carriers supporting it. I was watching the battle zoomed out. Then all the pirate ships were destroyed in an instant. WOW what just happened? Missile barrage. Keep in mind I had been reducing their numbers during the farming. I don't know that a missile barrage would wipeout a full strength pirate base.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account