The game at a certain point and size begins to lag. I can't believe they can't fix this. The lag is THE SAME on lowest settings as it is on highest. RAM usage is 43% only on lowest setting and 65% CPU usages. The video card is a over clocked Nvidia GTX260. It isn't computer based lag. I don't know what the hell it is. Everything off and lowest setting and all details off the lag is exactly the same. (Entranched expansion version 1.01 this is on but it was the same on all versions). I tried it on my brother's SLI GTX 260, 8 gigs of ram and quad core. Same thing. At about a certain fleet size or game time ...can't tell which one it depends on really. The zoom first becomes sluggish..than out of the nowhere the game just comes to a crawl. You can destroy all your units and lower the settings...the lag stays.
PS: I don't mind if the game is demanding and makes my PC piss its pants but my PC is at 50% usages sometimes and it doesn't help. Thank you AMD and Motherboard detection programs
Can anyone help?
How much core do you have ?
65% CPU usage on a dual core can mean almost 100% on one core and 15% on the other... since sins is mainly using only one core, it is maybe the reason for your "lag"... in the case of sins, it is better a CPU with a single core at 4 ghz that a quad core at 2 ghz...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defragmentation
If this program starts dumping stuff to my HDD...
Defrag does nearly nothing on large, modern drive.
In addition, HHD use is at nearly zero for most large games.
I have a dual core at 3 ghz each. How ever if this is the case I would definitly consider this a PROBLEM with the game and needing fixing as EVERYONE is going quad now. Who the hell runs single cores anymore while wanting to run current gen games? The single core will puke itself. We will soon be getting 8 core CPUs. Not to mention turning the settings down would make a difference I believe.
PS: to the defragmentation comment. I am currently defraggin the HD (400gigs) but from my long PC experience I am condifent that is not the issue.
I can confirm, as of Sins 1.15, the game still becomes a slidewhow with a few AI players ( >= 4) after a while. It seems less severe than before, but it's still there. I'm running on an E4400@2.6Ghz. I would upgrade my CPU, but it seems that even the best Core i7 isn't going to cut it, the game just becomes incredibly greedy with CPU time. It's one of my major gripes with Sins of a Solar Empire.
Well... it might be due to Vista's WoW64 implemntation. I have a Core Duo (32bit 1.8GHz x2) and can run a game for about 10-14 hours (WITH saves) no problem.
Setting down made more a difference about ram used...
Normally, your 3 ghz is more that enough...
By the way, sins is more that one year old... if you add 2 or 3 year time developement ( who is a minimal delay for a game go out )... 3 or 4 year ago, multicore was not a majority... Support for multicore or/and 64 bits will maybe appear in a Sins 2... In some way, Sins is already multicore since a second core can be used for load the texture ( and speed up the global process )...
Myself, i have two Xeon quad core at 2.66 ghz... and have no major problem with the game... playing with veryhigh GFX setting, huge multistar map, 11 player ( i count pirate like a player ) and with the biggest mod who exist...
Something is maybe wrong in your system... can be a lot of thing... bad bios configuration, some non desired software running in the background, driver problem, etc...
well, I am running 32 bit Vista premium edition. Next time I run the game I will attempt to go to the background processes. Though I don't even know where to start turnning them off. First I will see if the defragmentation worked but I doubt. By the way, the game shows good usage of both processors it seems. I am playing with only 3 players now and have 5-6 planets each on a single solar system map. Granted I have a large fleet but come on. The lag is annoying. I have noticed the second core being used on the core monitor from AMD and not just for windows processes, it does spike when i do something in the game so it seems the game at least uses some form of dual core optimization. I'm out of ideas, I want to blame the game but it seems that you don't have that problem if you are playing that size of games. Specially if you are playing with the max 10 players.
Just played a game of Entrenchment tonight with 5 other players online. It ran pretty well. Zooming in on a large army will still pause for a full 2 seconds or more sometimes, but I guess that's with all the texture/effects loading that has to take place at that moment. The general framerate was pretty damn good.
I should test it with AIs though. My most laggy games were against comps, but in 1.13.
Hmmm... you don't give a lot of detail on your own system but let imagine that your brother ( with SLI GTX 260, 8 gigs of ram and quad core ) use 32 bit Vista prenium edition...
32 bit windows system allow only 4 gb address range for ram ( unless your use a PAE kernel )... from these 4gb, some ram is removed for material... if like me, you have a 8800 ultra 768 mb, you will loose already 768 mb address range for only the graphic card... netwerk card/ship, sound card/ship, ide interfeca, etc use some ram too...
Now, let imagine the perfect situation... you use the PAE kernel who allow 36 bits address range... address of your material will be placed over the 4 gb limit so you will be able to enjoy the full 4 gb for your system...
From these 4 gb, 2 gb is reserved for application and 2 gb for the kernel... unless your use the 3gb flag ... who allow 3gb for application and 1 gb kernel ( who is a ninimum for vista )...
PAE and 3GB are easy to implement in Win XP from service pack 2... only need to modify your boot.ini... Vista is more complex and you need to manipulate register key...
Using 64 bits vista will help you a little... a 32 bits apllication like sins run in the WOW64 mode on 64 bits system... this allow 4 gb by application...
So, at the maximum, with Vista 32 bit, you will have 2 gb for application... don't forget that these 2 gb will be shared with the game, the anti-virus, the firewal and any other application running...
Now, some memory use for sins... i have no result with sins alone but i have result for sins with the mod 7DS 2.0 who will be out in a few days... OS used was linux since in one case, Windows have not allow to start a game due to the lack of enough memory address range ( mini-dump )
All graphics option on, resolution 1680*1050, AAx4... Huge Multistar map with one human player, 9 AI and 1 pirate... these value are start value, they grow with time
gfx on low : 1.0943 gbgfx on medium : 1.2324 gbgfx on high : 1.5051 gb ( in 32 bit system, game start but in a short time, mini-dump appear due to shortage of memory )gfx on very high : 2.2962 gb ( don't work on windows XP 32 bits or Vista 32 bits because over the 2 gb limit for application )
Have just finish two more test... same configuration but with mod dissable...
gfx on low : 0.5943 gb
gfx on very high : 1.3901 gb
So in 32 bits sytem, any configuration will start a game... but in very high, the game is only 0.61 gb before the 2 gb limit... soon of later, with huge fleet, with planet fully developed, with numerous commerce ship... you will reach the limit...
Now about Vista... if you have a legal version, you have receive two package... a 32 bits version and a 64 bits version... if you have 4 gb or more, install the 64 bits version... same if the game is not a 64 bits application, it double the ram that a application can use for run... from 2 gb to a max of 4 gb...
Before you reply me that other high quality game like crysis, mass effect, etc run without problem, you need to understand the different between sins and other game... a lot of other game load a first map, followed by a second once the first is finish, etc... Sins need to load everything at the start because the "galaxy" is created at the start... Now, imagine all these top game loading all the maps in the same time... the memory use and lag will be more bad that with sins...
All this post was valid if your computer using Vista 32 bits was with a similar configuration that your brother computer... if you have a other configuration, maybe other "tuning" will allow some ease for the game...but i need the informations...
About Vista... Microsoft have release a KB ( update ) some time ago who resolve some problem in some game ( sins was one of them )... be sure that your system is fully upgraded... It was not a Stardock issue but a Microsoft one... Same think with the Nvidia card... when sins was released, there was a lot of problem with Nvidia card... problem was with the nvidia driver... it was corrected a few month later by a new nvidia driver... if your computer is one year old, that you have only install the driver from the CD, a lot of change that driver will lead to some problem...
For any game type of game, a 2.66 ghz processor ( better two core ) will be more that perfect... a top graphic card is not needed... RAM use was always a issue with sins... but the very recent sins update include a lot of memory optimization...
Myself, i have be working on optimization too... have make some test who was successful... have calculate that for a game with very high GFX setting, 350 mb of ram can be reclaim from the sins 1.05 ... if i have time, i will maybe release a mini mod later for low end machine... just need to modify all .mesh file, modify all da texture and delete the nm texture... i simply use the specular effect from the da map, specially the blue channel for create the bump map effect... since the nm map in sins is not a real normal map but a bump map, i can delete it... a sample of the result can be see below... the ship have a lot of relief, almost all made using the blue channel of the da map... and be sure that i am not a guy who know better that Stardock... at the begin, it is a error manipulation of my texture who have lead me to these solution...
Danman, the upper God of the mod 7DS have already find several way for go over the limit of the game... the Babylon5 mod have made ship with moving part ( thing who was say to be impossible when the game have go out last year )... Stardock itself have make some miracle in the last update related to speed and memory use...
Enough blah-blah... please, post a detail of your material, OS, sins version, etc... i don't promise that i will find the miracle solution for you but i will try... it don't work, you loose nothing... it work and you become happy...
EDIT : forgot to post the picture of the ship with nm map but using the da map for the same effect... all the dots at the top, the big round thing on side with a light iside, the motor like thing at the extemity of wing, and more are created with the da map, no nm map was used...
PS: this model was made for the Halo mod of canadaman... a little publicity for him
love9sick,
i have found your problem... have check your other post... your have wrote in a other topic :
I have a 6000+ AMD 64 as well with 2 gig of ocz 1066mhz high performance ram and 800(something) mem on the GTX 260. All on a performance mobo. It is not the PC at fault in my case. I run Crysis WH when I clock up my CPU at 50+ fps on FULL enthusiast settings and 4x AA turned on at 1680x1050.
2 gig of ram is very low... specially with Vista eating almost 1 gb for running with ease...
Never forget that minimum configuration mean really minimum ; little map, 1 player and AI or two plater, gfx low, etc... recommended is the level for a normal game with medium map, medium gfx, 4-5 player...
Your lag problem is due to RAM... like explain in my previous post, Stardock is not in fault... concept of game like these and crysis are really different... if it was possible to load all the map ( chapter ) of crysis, the game will frooze on almost any computer....
More ram is the key... by the way, 2 gig of ocz 1066mhz high performance ram, mean nothing... if i good remember, Pentium have two channel... if you have one time 2 gb, you will be a lot slower that if you have 2 time 1 gb ( interleace thing )... in my case, i have 4 channel, serial channel... and i have two front side bus...
By the way, i game on Linux when possible... have not yet test the frame rate of sins... but for Serious Sam II... windows give around 200 grame second... on Linux i have 1500 frame second... Visually, it change nothing... eyes capture 30 frame second without problem but at 60 frame second, the difference is already very little...
Sins is not a graphic heavy game... unless like me, you change the particule limit from a few thousand to over 100k... it ask a lot of the processor but with all maxed, a 2.66 with two core have the main used core never going over 94%... ram is a other problem...
So, really, in your case, it is the PC at fault... you have just the recommended configuration... meaning medium map, medium gfx, and medium number of player... push only one of these parameter and your are over the recommended configuration... more, the recommended configuration is for the original sins 1.0 ... since, some optimization was make but some content/option was added too...
One question... don't you find strange to have a graphic card with 800 or something mb and only 2 gb ram ? It seem to me it is like a guy putting a Ferrari F40 motor with 1000 pk in a old chassis Citroen 2pk French car... Your computer seem to be top at everything but limited ram slowdows all... And why use a 32 bit OS when you have a 64 bits processor...
Hmmm... sure that my reply will not please you and that i can loose the karma point you give me... your fault... if you have not give a a karma point, i will have forget about these topic... again, i am not God, i can be wrong but i am pretty sure that it is a memory issue...
Start a game in windowed mode, keep open the windows thing ( forgot the name of the programme ) who show how much of the CPU is used, how much ram is used.... once you have some slowndows, take a look at the ram used... sure that you will not be far from saturate the ram... system will begin swap... a little more slowdown... and finally, soon of later, a mini-dump due to a out-of-memory
If you only have 2 GB of memory in your system now. You might think about
adding another 2 GB to your system. Vista is a resource pig when it comes
to using memory.
yea sweet and all but I swear I already mentioned that on lowest settings the RAM usage is only 43%. This is on three different ram usage programs including windows task manager. My brother has 4 gigs of of Patriot 1066mhz ram on 64 bit vista. I;m not dumb, I know when my ram is low. This game pushes it, I understand why you would think it would be the ram. It is nearly past 93% usage during full settings but low settings, high settings...doesn't matter. Ram usage 43% or 93% ....same lag. Sometimes when I load the game the lag won't be there for a while even WITH A LOT more things going on...than out of nowhere it will come in.
I have a 32 bit vista up to date. I have the newest Nvidia driver from their website. I have the expansion Entranched running in 1.01. Like I said, my brother has a 64 bit windows. Would be dumb for him to run 4 gigs with out he allocation space for it. I thought that maybe it has something to do with AMD CPUs since we both share that and I have yet to hear anyone with a Intel complain of this. There is another guy also with the issue and he has lots of RAM plus my brother. The one thing we all have in common is an AMD processor.
oh and the game that it is doing it on is me vs 2 comps on a single solar system about 24 planets.
I'm out of allocation room. I maybe have only 320mb left.
Same problems.. different thread.
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/341237
It is possible... everything is possible... Nvidia card have know problem with Sins... Vista have know problem with some game... at the processor level, both intel or AMD have already know some concept bug ( microcode update have resolve it )...
Maybe it will be interesting to start a new topic related to the specific problem with AMD processor... if numerous people have similar problem with little sins game on top machine, it will show a pattern... maybe the game is responsible, maybe the OS or maybe the CPU...
I have know some lag with a intel laptop and Vista but it was my mistake... system was reducing the speed of processor for spare energy... and was not always rising the speed when needed... no, when i game, i simply dissable all the thing who spare energy...
So, a lot of thing are possible... more people having the problem will lead to find what cause really the problem...
I am very sorry that you are not able to enjoy the game like i enjoy it... it is really a good game... with epic battle...
have to agree, at a certain point, online or single player... the game goes ahead crawling, not lagging... just crawling ahead.. with sometimes alot of delay between commands or zooming in/out...
given that some friends of myn have epic gaming PC's "quad cores 4gig ram 2 terra harddrive etc".. they also complain about the gaming running slow mid to late game, and becuase people that should be able to run Sins with ease are experiencing lag i do believe the fault lies with programming.... its either that or everyone's computer being at fault... the last option being unlikely
(just be honest, do you have lag mid to late game? any proportion? speed reduction of more then 1/4? thats the crawling thing were talking about... 1/4 may not sound much but an hour battle will suddenly take an hour and 15 min 3 hours of playing will suddenly take 3 hours and 45 min, olmost an hour extra... it really does eat away your time... and i know of no people that dont have this crawling late game)
I got lags or spikes or crawling (dunno how to describe) when i speed up (2x etc) the game flow isn't smooth anymore
on sins vanilla 1.15 (no entrenchment) my comp seems to be fine though.
It seem that i have a hyper epic gaming PC's... 2 quad core Xeon 2.66 ghz, 16 gb ram, 3.5Tb hardrive, 7.1 + 2 HD audio, 8800 Ultra 768 mb ( sure the ultra mean power but related to watt... 350 watt only for the graphic card !!! )...
Have know lag when i was using windows with extreme mod... lag have dissappear with linux but have know some slow down during epic battle...
Myself, i think that problem is relate to material, OS, game and several other factor... in the PC world, make a game is not a easy task, it is not like console where everybody have the same material... what will be good for a computer will be bad for a other one...
At the code itself, if Stardock was using multicore feature and 64 bits code... Machine like mine will have orgasm with Sins... but the game will be dead for low end system...
When Stardock have launch Sins of Solar Empire, they have take a commercial risk... people who like space strategy game are not the majority of player... so, they have try to hit a huge base of potential customer... some already existing code who allow better performance was not used because it will totally exclude some computer owner not able to run the code with optimization...
And yes, sins have sometime problem... recently, a vicious bug related to sync problem was resolved... these bug was reveal by only a few gamers... other people having no problem... now, people have these problem need to gater together, submit the problem to the devs and wait... Solution will not come in one day...
More, we are maybe 1000 people who have know problem with sins ( lag, crash, slowdown, impulse issue, etc ) but we are really a minority when compare to the large mumber of people using sins... If they can, Stardock will try to resolve our specific problem but it will ask time and they will need the help of people having problem since Stardock cannot have all the computer who exist in the world, with all possible configuration of hardware and software...
The majority of people run sins without problem, the majority of AMD processor have no problem at all... something special, maybe a little detail, is the reason of the problem... who know, maybe all these who have the problem with AMD processor use the same brand of motherboard, or a same bios version or have a similar background application running, of .... a lot of thing is possible...
The only problem with Sins and Stardock is that they don't have a bug tracker system... this will ease to see if a problem is recurrent with some configuration, material or software... be sure that the biggest difficulty for the devs will be to reproduce your problem... if they can't reproduce it, they will not be able to resolve it ( if the problem is relatedto the sins code )...
From the recent post in different topic, i can say that code can be partially responsible... in the case of people who was without lag in the beta 3 entrenchment but with lag in the 1.0 release... for people who was always with lag, reason can be everything...
The title of these topic give a wrong signal to the devs... it imply that their code is bad... it was better to write : "i have poor performance and i need help"...
Isn't the 32bit OS RAM limit 4GB? I have 32bit Windows XP and 4GB of memory (Sins eating 1.8GB on Huge Random Map no matter what graphics setting)
I havn't run into a single Minidump in a 23 hour game (9 Unfair AI's) considering that any Beta version of Sins if you sneezed at it wrong it minidumped you, it's kinda odd lol. Good job IC with that.
Yea, 4GB but TOTAL. My GPU and Vista eat a good chunk of that as it is. I add more and windows only recognized an extra 300 or so.
Yea, it can be anything now. It could be something in the background but I have been testing different things off and so on and no help. Not to mention my brother's PC would have to be doing the same thing what ever it is.
I don't mean to offend the developers here. I love this game, it is my favorite RTS ever made and I still play it. If they provide evidence that it is my PC doing this and under their advice I get what I need and it fixes the issue I would admit being wrong and feel a bit embarrased. I am willing to take that risk though, because I want to play this game smoothly for hours. The programming itself seems solid, I get no errors or crashes ever with this game. However I can't figure this issue out for the life of me and the more I test and dig into things the less it seems to be my PC. Hell, I even blamed the Power Supply and thus tried the 850watt Antec my bro has and that didn't help. Frustrated, out of ideas, I came here for help on the issue you know? ..so I wanted a title that can grab a devs attention, however to no avail.
I even tried running the game in safe mode lol, and in classice windows view. I even ran it in XP compatibility mode. Nothing. I have a save file where it does it at. If maybe anyone is interested, but 1.01 entranched is needed.
PS: thanks for the help and posts.
I think it's fair to say that, no one wants to upset the devs & everyone that comes to these forums loves SoaSE. The game is a masterpiece.
I've really really tested this issue, and on more than one machine now, one has:
An Intel core 2 duo 2.8 GHZ CPU, 4 GB RAM (DDR2-800), Nvidia 8800gt 320MB Video card, running Windows XP
The other is an:
AMD X2 6000 3.0 GHZ CPU, 2 GB RAM (DDR2-800), ATI X1950 512MB Video card, running Windows XP
Both have hefty 700 watt+ OCZ PSU's
The lag issue happens on both systems starts about an hour/two hours into a game & gets continuously worse, until its unavoidably irritating.
Both systems are in tip top shape, no HD errors, defragged, No anti-virus running, newest drivers, etc.
It would be great if we could get some acknowledgement that the issue is being addressed. Blair (Moderator) stopped by the other thread we had going on this topic, but never came back.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
