They have to deal with the huge pile of garbage that is Impulse!
"so you are telling me that in order to download your software, i have to download other software, after downloading IE7...."
"then after jumping through those hoops, Impulse wont start up....."
Your forums are filled with paying customers who cant use the product they purchased.
Next time i'll wait for the torrent and skip this epic nightmare.
It doesnt pay to be honest I guess.
Let's see, major reasons to pirate games:
1) Demo. There is no demo. The demo is so short that it's an insult.
2) Rental. There is no local rental store. The rent stores suck. It's rare that a pirated game lasts more than a few days before it gets tossed out. But rental stores are too good an opportunity for piracy.
3) No cheap access to a play center, I.E. an arcade. There are none with any decent library for 100 miles. No place to try out games other than on your own.
4) Internet access. There is no way to shop online. The online stores suck. Piracy is still the #1 way to download games! This is changing with Steam, Impulse, and the like.
5) Hatred for local superbusiness. Some people refuse to buy games at Walmart, Best Buy, etc. Probably from a bad past experience, or simply because they feel the games suffer from a severe case of PRICE FIXING. $50 may not seem like much, but there are hundreds of games out there.
6) Waiting for the bargain bin. An extension of price fixing, it's just SO easy to wait a month or two for the unsustainable prices to drop. It's not as though there's a shortage of games on the market, there's plenty to keep your interest for a long time. Only the FEW quality games can keep their prices over time.
7) Waiting for the upgrade. An extension of bargain bin, this user can't play any high end games, and is saving up for a new PC. He's also likely broke. He tells himself he's just "testing the specs", but in no time he's hooked.
8) The teenage bum. The kind with no job, few friends, and no allowance, but a shiny home PC and nothing to do. He may want to buy games, but is either too poor or too lazy to leave the house.
9) The hardcore dedicated pirate. For some reason the DRM nuts will tell you that the market is FULL of these guys. Bullshit, it's just buzzword marketing to sell their DRM product. However there is a real, dedicated community that simply looooves crypto, so DRM only buys time.
10) The OCD archiver. These guys download EVERYTHING because they can. They may focus heavily on niche markets, but these "pirates" usually archive other stuff as well.
11) The DRM rebel. These people know that DRM ruins games. They pirate out of spite, saying that there IS a demand for games, but will refuse to pay for DRM. They were probably burned too many times by failing installs, or scared by the dangerous hidden software that gets unearthed. But in the end they're voting with their dollar.
I agree with both mickeko and Bobucles.
mickeko put the real situation in the most succinct terms of all, and his prediction WILL come true...because, well, people are predictable.
Bobucles gave the very REALLY long answer that mickeko mentioned before.
That said...piracy will end when the internet is ruled by true AIs (i.e., hardware AIs instead of software AIs). It's a tad sci-fi, I know, but we inch closer and closer. Some might fear a hacking of AIs...but that will only apply to software AIs. No one who might live would ever be able to hack a hardware AI...unless they learn how to hack a brain, but I think hacking a human brain would be easier. That'll be refreshing...seeing that arms race of programming lost in a single stroke. I get tired of hackers thinking they're gods.
AI in game are not real AI... it is simply a software ( hardware AI will change nothing ) who follow some basic rules... these rules are created by Human...
A real AI is a AI who have a base rules set but who is able to create new rules or modify existing one in function of experience... at a local computer, it is great to have so AI... you become better and the AI become better... on a remote server, with all the gamers, very fast, AI will become to much hard and beat every player...
For game, it is better speak of SI ( simulated intelligence ) that AI...
That a good list Bobucles.
I would add one more
12) The Entitled. Has the money, but prefers to save it for things that he/she cannot steal. Transfers his/her network of poor experiences with any corporation, developer, or publisher and maps these experiences to ALL companies, regardless of their differing policies and history. Pirates and enjoys games, then actively seeks out reasons to dislike the game to comfort their cognitive dissonance.
My favorite pirate is 13) The Converted
Speaking like this, I think you mean "I love myself"
Impulse works just fine, I didnt need IE7; I'm currently using Google Chromes browser and its flawless. Never had any problems with Impulse
I'd rather use Impulse than Steam
I had to read through seven whole pages of this to find someone else making the basic point that IE7 is not any kind of requirement for Impulse. I have never had IE7 on this machine, and Impulse works fine for me (though I do wish that it would let you decide where you want to install a game, rather than just going ahead and putting the game wherever it feels like it). I have IE6, which I only ever use for Windows Update itself; for all of my real browsing, I use FF3 (or Flock, or any one of several other niche browsers that aren't Internet Exploder).
And yes, my machine is secure, 100% legal, and patched; I just run Windows Update on my own terms, manually selecting which files I want to download (security patches) and which files I don't (IE7, WMP11, Windows Spyware Removal Tool).
As for Chrome, I tried it out for a while, and liked some of its features; but it's just not there yet, and I also refuse to have yet another permanently resident auto-updater program hanging around trying to phone home for updates all the time, like GoogleChromeUpdater.exe (or AdobeUpdater.exe, or any other such programs). Nothing on my computer calls out to the internet without my initiating the procedure; programs which don't let me control the use of my own machine get uninstalled in a hurry.
Considering we're all tared with the same brush, turn about is only fair play I feel. But moving on.
*Looks at logo* And yet, there is more than one person in this thread who's openly admitted that when they snagged a copy of Sins (your product I believe) it grabbed them by the balls and they promptly went shopping. Which does raise an interesting question: If those people hadn't of pirated your product in the first place would they have brought the game anyway?
Personally, no I wouldn't of. So in some respects Copyright infringment directly led to a sale. Which leads on to another thought: Most people aren't an island of one out there in the world there will be others thinking the same doing the same. What percentage of sales can be attributed to a pirated copy of Sins? Then how many of those people brought Entrenchment (which is apparently flying off the virtual shelves). Are these figures even quantifiable...
It's something that has been danced around in other threads of this nature, but I'll come out and be blunt. Would you have prefered I hadn't of aquired Sins dubiously and thus never made my legitimate purchases?
After all, no one in their right mind would ever refuse to pay for a bad game, right? They just meant to pay full price for a 3 day rental, before throwing it out and never touching it again.
I haven't yet met a prirate that never bought a game.
In my case, it is almost the reverse situation...
Have read a good review in a computer game magazine... Have go to a few shop but i have not find the game... Have download the pirated game... once in the shop, i have buy it... short time ago, i have but it again and it is very possible that i will buy more box... i try to convert some of my friend to strategy game... usually, strategy game are ugly but Sins is very sexy...
Have complain about the distribution from the beginning, nothing have change since... have delete my pirate version of Entrenchment ( cannot update the original game and Entrenchment )... when i will be tired of vanilla sins, i will simply buy a other game... i will not wait years for have some expension pack...
I think that almost all people who have post here and have say that they have use a pirated version before are not really converted... yes, they have buy sins after but if sins 2 come out tomorrow, they will download a pirated version for the numerous reason post here...
To be honest, i think that the majority of pirate don't buy the game later... for economic reasons... in some very poor country, pirated game is the only solution... in some case, it is not download by the end user itself, it is simply sell in some little market... from my numerous visit in Russia, specially in village and little cities, you have no real computer shop... these people earn very little money... on the market, you see only illegal copy of games, music, video, etc...
Game publisher have not the power to stop pirate... put so much protection your wish, soon of later, someone will break it... Only Goverment can stop Piracy... not by creating new laws but by enforcing these who already exist... if the country is too much poor, other solution need to be found... by example, game can be "printed" in the country itself for a lower cost due to the cheap labor... this will only be possible is gov don't make war each 6 month, is Gov is not corrupted and steal all the money, etc...
Blue Stardock orb in the upper left:
Preferences -> Folders -> Install Locatios (click the drop down and choose Games). Change to whatever location you wish.
It's been bandied around a few times (and usually shot down in flames) but if ISP's offered a "Peer 2 Peer" account I could signup for, which had a premium attached to pay to the various IP and (C) enforcment groups in my country (the UK) I'd pretty much be the first in the queue to take it for a test drive.
I mean you can buy "Music" CD blanks, which have no difference in the dye or different quality controls but have a premium attached to them. As above that premium is paid to the music assiciation (I think it's the BMA?) the idea being if I exclusivley use these "music" CD's to store my illgotten gains in the MP3 department... I'm legal. I think they also make "Video" DVD blanks for the exact same reason; or at least trialed them.
Which suggests a modicum of acceptance and offers a way to convert your illegal MP3 in to a licensed and paid for MP3. So it all boils down to money and perhaps the BSA should simply state how much cash it wants added on to my ISP fees for them to bugger off...
You can't steal something that has no tangible Value, nor can you be robbed of something that can't take Value away from nothing.
I love how Companies big or small try and make outragoues claims about them losing money to an industry of pirates when there was nothing lost.
Did you lose a CD/DVD??? no, did you lose any form of material(something you can touch not Virtual). is your online service being overrun by pirates, nope didn't think so.
Now if you go to a store and Steal a CD/Game then yes there is a lose because of packaging/Marketing materials and having to take a hit, because the company won't make any money from a product they bought from a Distributor.
That is a Tangible lose, Not a Virtual implied lose.
Now d/l from a torrent Has non of these effects. And as mention in teh DRM Article by Ironclad this is the same thing. People don't want DRM, people don't want Online Systems such as Steam and Impluse. They are a joke regradless of how well they might think they work. If i Buy a Product i damn well better Have something Tangible in my hand especially since "These industries" whine and bitch and complain about Material and ramp the price up.
Now you can agrue about online software other then games, however Say Nero($75), Intermapper($750/skies the limit) or other such software has way more Virtual Value and can be used for longer periods of time and has more function and use. You don't see companies like that bitch and complain. People will pay for something when it has Value and meaning. and gets the job done.
If your counting on people who will never pay for a product to begin with you are a moron. and ya you can wallow in your self pitty how omfg all the pirates are stealing our money(wah..... what money to begin with???)
and you can cry about all that work, well umm yea, your on the clock, and yea you only made the game once. It's like any job that requires labor you only get paid for what you do. You made the game you try and sell it thats your pay. and you use that income also fix what's broke otherwise you'll just make a bad name foryourself and hopefully your sales well continue for awhile, and when people stop buying hopefully you have some form of Manangement and put aside a nice portion for the company to use for the next game to pay your workers and maybe upgrades(god knwos companeis spend way to much on crap that just cost up).
now you could also be one of those unfortunate companies that set themselves up thinking hey lets try and make a quick buck or sell to the casual gamer who will stop playing our games in several months that way we can screw the hardcore gamers and fanbase to the point were they will turn on us and we won't make jack because no one bought the game.
And i'm sorry but i don't think when you pay your taxes you can inlcude, "people where pirating our game we didn't make any money" and any Inteligent investor will just see "people are pirating the game thats why we can't pay you back" as an excuss.
I pirate games, and i buy games, Hell i even buy software in upwards of several thousand dollars for my company.
Now the piraters that i do Disagree with are the 10-16yr olds who just do it because it's fun and they can, they have no real understanding as to why people like me or the poster would pirate. Pirtaing is also making a statement.
"If you werent such a d.bag i woulda bought your game but instead you decided to do whatever you did to upset your potential customer." There fore you won't make any money from me, sorry but your not losing money your just not making it. I wonder if any of these people even understand economics/business.
Demo's is a def, Shabby online systems regardless again of how well the company thinks they are. I hate steam for the life of me, yet i have all of valves titles. However i have no other options. Just as impulse.
I live in a area where Sorry to say internet is not readily available. Now trying to d/l Several gigs of game content on a T1 is not fun. and then u punish me more by making me half to authenticate everytime i wanna play a game offline wtf, who's retarded idea was that??? that college degeree i'm sorry buddy but it's not working for you and umm yea you have no real understanding of business or marketing.
I have several CLients that are on dial-up and or satelite, you make them suffer as well. And major ISP only care to install in places where they will make a huge profit. so cities with less then 25k tend to get shafted and have to relly on Dial-up/Satelite or fixxed providers like me.
Yeah, when you make statements that are completely ignorant, then yes, you're an idiot at least in that area. I don't care if you're a rocket scientist, wading into an argument you know nothing about while speaking outloud is a bad idea. I don't buy beer, or coffee either, most of my friends don't as well, we're gamers, we drink Iced Tea and eat fast food and snacks. We're not 50 and we don't drink a coffee while we game, ever. Who the hell even does that?
Why would they pay 20 dollars for a game that took two+ years to make that /they don't like enough to pay for it?/ They're not fans of Civ4, of Hearts of Iron, of Europa or of Galatic Civ's. They just don't like the Grand Strategy Genre, which is fine. I'm not the biggest fan of FEAR2 or GoW or any of those. So I /don't buy them./ But my friends do, and they want to play Co-Op with me, so I /download them/ play them and then delete them forever. I do this with console games too. I /buy/ Super Smash Brothers, I /borrow or burn/ Super Mario Galaxies. I still play Super Smash Brothers, I will never beat Galaxies. If I am never going to fully enjoy a game, multiplayer, singleplayer and all, then why would I pay for it? I have a temporary use for the game, I use it, and then I delete it. If I was interested in playing MP, (Such as with L4D) I will buy it (and I did, as with Sins).
Pirate Car gasoline? Clearly you've never heard of those people who fill their car up and then drive off. It happens /all the time/ and is an immense issue for Gas stations. If you have the balls to do it, power to you. Until then, stop making irrelevant comparisons.
Yeah, they can. But people rarely do that. What makes WoW fun is all the other people, and private servers don't have that.
Just as a side note, they actually do get a decent population - the Largest actually had a queue similar to normal WoW servers at peak time which is what led to Blizzard using a court order to shut them down. Since that only applies to American servers however, you can still join International servers (you just get no peak times/crap latency).
Thank you! That is good to know.
The developers get paid real money to really work on real software so you can have your nice "virtual" experience.
. . . and if people who never pay for products expect to be supported by the companies who create said products, they are morons as well. The companies are under no obligation to give products and support to people who don't pay for the products and support.
They make themselves suffer when they decide that somehow, in their own little universe, not having a game is somehow akin to being tourtured.
So convince them they can make a huge profit in your town. Problem solved .
Actually if you want to keep your own little ISP business, I suggest pull out a loan and buy a larger connection, even if that means paying for the physical installation of wiring to your town. Something closer to backbone speeds instead of a T1. Since you already apparently run a modem bank, I suggest offering DSL, and advertising in the local phone book or newspaper. As big an ad as you can afford. And start hiring. A kid out of college with a business degree may be willing to work for you for cheap. And oh, yeah - don't do anything without a business plan.
The thing is the people with pirated copies of things don't expect the company to support them, provide patches or indeed anything. I mean every so often you'll get someone with a blatently dubious copy appear and whine but you send them packing. But that is not the norm.
Now supporting legitimate copies, hell yes, but failures in customer support/relations are subjects for a different thread. Same with full patch vs deltas for bandwidth constrained people.
That statement is "eye for an eye", a concept any child has mastery of, so I'm not sure how exactly that's a step above a teenager who pirates because he just doesn't care. At the end of the day you're still just making petty excuses to justify taking something you have no right to. It's a luxury good--if you don't like the terms it is offered under, suck it up and do without.
While it may be true that some people are just too greedy, ignorant, or self-righteous to ever pay for the software they use, that doesn't mean their actions should be condoned. You can dissect semantics all you like, but no number of excuses will change the fact that piracy is immoral and unethical.
You don't see companies who produce specialized or commercial software complaining as much because the groups using said software are more easily found out and held accountable for piracy, and have a lot more to lose.
There is no such requirement on any of our products.
You'd be surprised just how often pirates try to get support or gain access to online play. IC support only started requesting serials with support tickets because there were literally floods of pirates bogging them down.
I probably wouldn't. I'd just weep for the species.
If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
-- Exodus 21:23
Not something I would expect any child to have mastered the concept off. Tit for Tat I would have agreed with. But there are differences between that and "eye for eye".
this is abit pointless dont you think your all fighting over something stupid
1) impulse is easy to use yet sometimes has it moments
2) its easy enough to go and buy and a game well here in the uk it is atleast (that includes online buying)
3) pirate copies are useless and normally for online play you have to wait till someone figured out how to do it
ill admitt i actaully pirated Sins i liked it so i went out and bought it to play with my friend that lives in Island as a xmas present my miss's got me the expansion.
Kryo is right suck it up. either pay or dont play and dont complain sheesh its a game
Eh, fair enough, but it's mostly subtle semantics. In more modern understanding they're effectively the same; they're both the concept of an injured party taking revenge on the offender--the hebrews just condoned (even required) it legally.
No disrespect Ron but it isn't. Nor is it even included on most Windows XP install discs. You can even rip it out entirely and the OS still functions.
How did you get it to install under Chrome? Agreed that I'd rather have Impulse than Steam. Java really irritates me. Plus the region locks mean when you move you can't necessarily take it with you.
Not to undermine the problems that anyone may be having with Impulse but I've found it very easy to use. My experience with Steam was not so good - I bought Half Life 2 while I was at Uni and my dorm room only had dialup. Before I could even play the damn game it had to decrypt or validate every file online. It took about 4 hours, plus install time. Not impressed.
In any case it's very easy to complain about delivery methods for updates and all that, but we're not the people who have to manage the logistics of it. It's just sometimes devs get it wrong. In this instance I think Stardock got it right. I quite like the idea of having a sort of 'portal' only for legitimate users. I know that it'll be standardized, and we're all getting our updates from the same source.
As far as copyright and piracy goes, it's a strange one IMO. The trouble is...the entertainment industry as a whole has shown that it can exist in the face of piracy. Cassettes and VHS were supposed to destroy the music and film industry, yet companies continued to produce the hardware that would allow people to openly violate copyright and mechanically reproduce and transfer media. So when people see movie budgets that could feed 3rd world countries for a decade, they probably find it hard to understand how piracy affects the industry. I think gaming is in the same boat. I read somewhere that despite the economic downturn, the gaming industry had seen something like 40% growth. Crazy times!
It's gotten to a point where it's impossible, impractical and nonsensical to apply absolute morality to the situation. No company or entity has the reach to impose the law to the letter, and ultimately a lot of people know this. If they did, the internet and this whole concept of masses of free flowing information and ideas that we've become so used to, probably wouldn't/couldn't exist. And a good number of us would hand ourselves in along with every piece of digital media we own that infringes copyright (knowingly or otherwise).
Of course, I'm not saying that this is nessecarily a great thing - it's just a curious state of affairs we've all found ourselves in. I produce a lot of audio/music related content, and I know it stings like hell to think that someone has just helped themselves to my work. I just have to write them off as people who were never likely to buy in the first place. Doesn't make it right. It's just the nature of my work and my industry.
Now, all of this considered? I completely understand why Stardock/Ironclad have gone the way of Impulse. It's a major incentive to own the game. That coupled with the fact that they're so active in improving the software will (hopefully) win them a large number of loyal customers. I'm definitely one of them anyway I've got my updates, and I've got access to what appears to be a great support network and an active forum. Can't complain.
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