Most news from Gaza has been authored by Hamas. But the Palestinian Authority (the ACTUAL representative of the "Palestinian" people) also have a camera crew:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7kq_4y-Kts
Over the last three years Hamas have murdered hundreds of people in Gaza. NOBODY cared. The Palestinian Authority spoke up occasionally, but couldn't be heard over the world screaming at Israel. In the mean time Hamas was permitted to murder Arabs and Jews, freely and without fear of punishment.
Not all Arabs support Hamas. In fact Hamas has more supporters in the west than in "Palestine". Hamas' western supporters have it easy, they don't have to live with Hamas. Palestinian Arabs have documented what Hamas did to them, but the western media and western supporters of Hamas don't care.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OGhj43GAE
The pictures shown are real. They are not staged, and they are not shown selectively. (For example, the wedding party did not shoot at Hamas first and the video is not just showing Hamas' response while leaving out what prompted the response. What prompted the response was _singing_ at a wedding.)
And why do Arab children die in schools? It's simple. Hamas boobytraps schools and blows them up when ready.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU
This is why the civilian death tool went up dramatically after the first few days. Israelis, world-famous for being incompetent babykillers (for example, even though Israelis are evil and target civilians, only 15% of initial victims were civilians), do not actually get better at shooting civilians after a few days of fighting. What happens simply that after Hamas knew that they were under attack, they could get on with blowing up schools. Since all news reported from Gaza by the world media has been authored by Hamas (nobody else can legally report from Gaza, the PA camera crew from above have to fear for their lives and have probably fled by now), the formula is simple: you blow up a school, kill dozens of children, and then report to the world that Israelis have killed the children.
And haters everywhere, white supremacists, Muslim terrorist sympathisers, liberals, they all will believe it.
Because they know two things:
1. They are not themselves anti-Semites.
2. Israelis lie.
Often Jews speak up against Israel. But that doesn't mean those Jews are right. Those Jews are rarely from the middle east and know as much about Israel as your typical liberal. It doesn't even mean that they really think what they say. Just try to live in, say, England and speak up against Hamas and for Israel and see what will happen to you.
The Palestinian Authority sympathisers who made the first two videos cannot speak up against Hamas publicly in Gaza either.
And in most Arab countries merely BEING a Jew is a death sentence.
But until this gets better let us all remember that those who hate Israel are not anti-Semites and do not hate all Jews.
They merely hate middle-eastern Jews.
It's news from Gaza. But the authors are not Hamas.
Realise that almost all the news reported by the media originated from Hamas "journalists".
Whoever considers the Palestinian Authority, the IDF, and Palestinian Christians less reliable than Hamas should skip this article. It probably contains only lies.
Anybody else, please take a moment to understand the positions of three non-Hamas sides in this conflict.
I cant see the links from work. But do you really expect either the "Obama" Mainstream Media or liberals (with exceptions as noted in another thread) to believe anything not put out by Hamas?
I find it hard to believe you are that naive. If Hamas does not spoon feed them the information, it must just be another propaganda effort by the "evil" Jews.
But do you really expect either the "Obama" Mainstream Media or liberals (with exceptions as noted in another thread) to believe anything not put out by Hamas?
No. This is for the sake of people like you, KFC, conservatives and Christians.
You have a right to know the truth.
And Arab Christians and Muslims opposed to Hamas have a right not to be forgotten.
Sadly American Jews are Liberal to the tune of around 75% in America, why I have no Idea, they parrot the [party line including the line of the "evil Jews In Israel" I have great fear that Obama will withdraw American support from Israel putting the Jews back against the wall and making them deploy nukes, this in itself is scary as it will be the beginning of WW3 I believe. If this happens truly we will be in "end days"
You are by far NOT AN ANTI-SEMITE. you just have strong views, anyone branding you an Anti-Semite has their head up their ass. I too am tired of this never ending conflict no matter who starts it or who finishes it. I am sick to death of war period, our war, their war, all war, slowly we have finished defining ourselves {the human race}| as unworthy to live any longer. Face it G-D made a mistake creating us. He needs to wipe us all out and start over without the need for conflict ingrained in us.
It's normal to be sick of this ongoing "conflict" That in and of itself does not make one an anti-Semite. I think there are many that are desensitized by the whole thing, and other that could careless. I don't necessary find fault with these groups. Attention spans are short after all.
I also don't think Leauki is calling everyone that is against Israel an anti-Semite. You have to ask people why they hate another person they don't even know based on an idea. Did someone from that group cheat, pick on, wrote a bad check, etc. to the person? It's too easy to dislike a group for being different, it's much hard to dislike a person that you see and interact with everyday (unless there is a more direct reason). The truth is liberals need something to hate or at least oppose. Now that their great nemesis Bush is gone (and conservative are licking their wounds) what's left? How about the rights sidekick, Israel? Liberals would die without an agenda. The problem here is they are playing directly into the hands of Hamas supporters. The liberals get a cause and Hamas gets a mouthpiece, win win. But I doubt these two groups would really like each other much if you could put them together in a room.
This really puts Obama in a tough spot. Only 60% voted and it wasn't a huge win (popular vote) in what should have been a landslide victory. But he gave up the kitchen sink and promised everything to everyone for a vote. So is he going to leave his core supporters wanting or is he going to anger the silent majority? If he backs out on Israel his core supporters will love him for it but it will just energize the right and independents to vote him out next go round. If he supports Israel his core will erode, can independents make up for the loss? You know it would have been a boring 4 years if McCain won. These next four years should be great theater.
Now, you can lay hundreds of years worth of history lessons on me, but the fact remains, anyone questioning Israel's motives can expect to be dismissed as an anti-Semite, period.
Israel's motive is survival. I wouldn't support other motives. And while I respect people who question Israel's _strategies_ or _actions_, I do indeed believe that questioning Israel's _motives_ is anti-Semitic.
What rational (i.e. non-racist) reason is there to believe that a country under constant attack would NOT have survival as its motive? How sick would Israel (and hence nearly all middle-eastern Jews) have to be to pursue a different motive?
For example, if you tell me that attacking Gaza is wrong because it kills too many people while not achieving anything, I would regard that as a criticism of Israel's strategies or actions but not as anti-Semitic.
But if you told me that attacking Gaza is wrong and Israel doesn't do it in self-defence but because Israel just loves killing people and finally found an excuse again to do so, I would regard that "criticism" of Israel as anti-Semitic, because the axiom "Jews love to kill people" is an inherent principle used to arrive at that conclusion.
(And it doesn't matter to me if you would exclude European Jews and just refer to middle-eastern Jews when you say it.)
I can only personally compare it to the way blacks convieniently use the same shield in America...it doesn't matter if they're wrong or right, it doesn't matter one single iota. What matters is that any criticism, regardless of its source, regardless of its legitimacy, is bound to be slapped down as racism.
Yes. But the fact that all such criticism might be slapped down as racism doesn't mean that none of the "criticism" is racism.
I am sick to death of this conflict. I am sick to death of the finger pointing. I am sick to death of BOTH sides, (there, I said it) refusing to give, painting the opposition as monsters worthy of nothing but death, and the endless blame games that carry on even as both sides bury their dead.
The Arabs might be my opposition but I doubt you will find many Israelis or Jews who will paint them as monsters worthy of nothing but death. So I am not sure I understand your point.
I can confirm that I do believe that terrorists should be killed, regardless of their nationality or religion. I can also assure you that if there was a group like Hamas on "Israel's side" which would advocate a culture of death and genocide, I would be opposed to it.
(There are racist groups on the Israeli side, but they are few in number, have very little support, and no influence in Israeli politics.)
Most of all, I'm sick of this conflict continually threatening WORLD peace, and I'm rapidly approaching the point where I'd be just as happy to see ALL of the combatants nuked to hell and back.
For that I am not sorry because I really don't care.
Even if the death of Israel and all middle-eastern Jews would somehow preserve world peace (and I doubt it would), I would do what I can to prevent it from happening.
But I do also believe that if Israel falls, somebody else will be next. These things don't stop.
You would have to destroy all Jews and Arabs, perhaps, and possibly the Iranians and maybe all Muslims.
Who needs a world war if preventing the world war is likely to cause more deaths?
Because maybe, just maybe, the rest of the world is just as sick of dealing with this shit (and having their peace threatened) as I am.
In that case I would recommend to the rest of the world not to march on the streets calling for a continuation of the war.
I have seen hatred for Israel among people in the west (i.e. the rest of the world) that is far beyond any hatred for Israel I have encountered among Arabs living in the region.
Perhaps it is time to turn this thing around and ask the rest of the world to leave Israel and her enemies alone.
Israel and the PLO are certainly sick of the rest of the world giving money and immoral support to Hamas and have their peace threatened.
But I don't think that the world is "sick of dealing with this shit". Most seem to be taking sides and many are supporting Hamas (instead of the PLO).
I doubt that Hamas (or even Hizbullah) would have much influence in "Palestine" without the support they get from the rest of the world!
By the same token, I doubt Israel would be as powerful as it is without the support they get from the United States and her allies!
Israel won wars against the Arabs when they had Soviet support and before Israel had US support.
All things being equal, without foreign support the larger numbers would eventually win, barring miracles.
Ben Gurion said that "in Israel to be a realist one has to believe in miracles", but how many miracles will Israel get?
I'm fine with that, I really am. I wish the United States would embrace the same philosophy, hit our enemies, hit 'em hard, and to hell with what the rest of the world thinks.
Very good. I can live with that, with "live" being the key word.
But if our two nations didn't share the 'white hat syndrome' why all the outrage and cries of anti-Semitism whenever Israel's activities are even questioned?
It's simple. It's because of what activities are questioned and how.
Sometimes "activities" are simply made up by those "questioning" them.
Often activitives are criticised when Israel does them but not when others do them.
In many cases activities are simply "assigned" to Israel, even if others did them.
In the last few years the world took options away from Israel and then condemned Israel for using one of the remaining options.
And finally some activities are simply declared war crimes when Israel does them.
The most common "criticisms" of Israel are simply about things Israel has never done or been. Refusing to acknowledge guilt for crimes one never committed doesn't mean that one regards oneself as an angel.
America and Israel are not the good guys. But they are the two countries that for some reason everybody holds to a higher standard. We should be proud of that. But we shouldn't allow it to make foreign policy for us.
Holding one group of people to a different standard than others is racism.
but it doesn't answer the question as to why they've chosen to go about it the way they have
I think it's simply a case of showing them that attacking Israel is going to be expensive. It worked with Hizbullah in another widely criticised "attack". Since 2006 Hizbullah have been quiet. A few rockets were fired from Lebanon this last week, but Hizbullah made it clear that it wasn't them and the Lebanese police said they acted against those who fired the rockets. Apparently bringing death and destruction to the source WORKS.
When later this year somebody in Gaza fires rockets into Israel and is punished by some sort of Arab police force for it (not because firing rockets at kindergardens is wrong but because it WILL result in having your neighbourhood destroyed), while Hamas feel that taking credit for firing rockets is more dangerous than it's worth in propaganda value, the mission will have been successful.
Why not boots and tanks on the ground, door to door searches, disarmament, and prisoner taking?
That's actually what they are doing now. The air strikes were just preparation.
Don't forget that all the news you heard so far came from Hamas. For all we know Israel might have hit ONLY terrorists and ALL the civilian deaths might have been caused by Hamas blowing up schools, which they would have done anyway if Israel had invaded without airstrikes.
Incidentally, such searches are very different from what you probably imagine them to be like. Gaza is VERY dangerous territory. You can easily end up in a war between different Arab factions completely unrelated to your search if you don't switch off the militants first.
Apparently bringing death and destruction to the source WORKS.
Note that I wished that bringing freedom from occupation and open borders to the source had worked.
But in both cases Israel did that, in southern Lebanon and Gaza, it brought rockets instead.
Not true, the BBC has a man in Gaza, he's been permanently assigned there for years.
Yes, I have heard about him.
All the news outlets have men in Gaza. But those are ONLY men acceptable to Hamas.
Men not acceptable to Hamas in any way, even those sympathetic to their "cause" or even those vehemently anti-Israel will NOT report from Gaza, you can be sure about that.
Those journalists report what Hamas want them to report.
(And I am sure that some of them don't mind.)
The BBC has shown itself to be fervently anti-American and Anti Israel in its reporting, this is my observation, not just my opinion.
Notice how liberals try to change the question? They cannot debate the issue, so they have to change the question into a rhetorical one that cannot be debated.
The only way to keep them honest (to all others as they will never be honest to themselves) is to keep going back to the original question - which you will find they cannot answer and will not attempt to because it will show them they are wrong.
the BBC has the "local hiring initiative"... they beleive a "local" would give a better viewpoint than a british reporter. So by policy their local reporters are just that, local... So the BBC reporters in gaza are gaza born muslim arabs. muslim arabs who are amiable to the hamas that is.
Little whip, I don't know enough to tell if you are an anti semite or not, but I can tell you are a moron. Firstly, there are no "two sides" like said you are sick of. This article alone discusses 4 completely different factions. The IDF, the hamas, the PLO, and palastinian christians. And there are further "sides" and seperations within various groups.
Furthermore, the most naive thing is the retarded liberal notion that it takes two to have a conflict. Every victim, be it of rape, burglery, war, or almost any other crime can understand it. They did not have "conflict", they had simply been prayed upon. USUALLY there is someone at fault, not ALWAYS, but usually. Only very rarely is there a situation where everyone is equally at fault.
PS. the only reason that this conflict is never ending, is because israel is too moral to commit the collatoral damage needed to end this conflict. The united states has done so multiple times, such as in WW2 against japan and germany, and also against the native americans. The russians have done it countless times, the chinese, every european country has done it... Israel is unique in its AVOIDANCE of civilian casualties, to the point that they are incapable of winning. And they are demonized for it.
Israel: 13 (ten of which were soldiers.)
Gaza: 1000+ (300 of which were women and children.)
So much for a 15% civilian casualty rate, hmm?
Three dead Israeli civilians (as of Dec 27th.)
Three hundred dead Palestinian civilians. (same time period.)
Yet you call their actions humane?
As do I.
I have seen videos of Hamas preparing schools with bombs. I have seen videos of Hamas firing from UN schools and drawing fire to those schools. And I have seen Hamas terrorists firing from behind children.
And I don't believe Hamas' numbers.
But I do know the extreme length the IDF go to to avoid civilian casualties. If they didn't you could expect a LOT MORE casualties in a densely populated area like that (and there wouldn't be any Israeli casualties, I can tell you that).
And just to join in the Godwining here, and since I've already been called an anti-Semite, let me point out that the Nazis used to do the same thing, killing ten civilians for each troop lost.
Israel is doing that but to the tenth power, slaughtering 100 to 1. (roughly.)
I do not believe that the Nazis' enemies fired from behind children or blew up schools.
But your comparison of Israel with the Nazis is noted.
I hope it was worth it for you to show your true colours now. You didn't even put ANY blame for the civilian deaths on Hamas, not even for those who died in explosions called by Hamas. Anything that dies, whether hit by an Israeli bullet or killed by a Hamas bomb is a victim of Israel's slaughter. That is how I read your summary, that is what "slaughtering 100 to 1" means.
I hope it was worth it for you.
We are done.
The US forces in Iraq went through the same thing with civilian casualties when the fighting was more intense. The liberal and Arab media focused on civilian deaths while completely failing to report the insurgents mingling among the population (aka: human shields) or even direct support of the insurgents (seemed like a lot of people dance when those contractors body hung from the bridge). Did civilians get killed, unfortunately yes. But it wasn't near the 600,000 that the loony left would have had you believe (though that number pops up from time to time still). US troops went out of their way to avoid civilian casualties at a high price to them. Remember the US troops blown up handing candy out to children?
That said I take what I hear in the same media that reported on the US war, with a grain of salt. If they were eager to report negatively against their own countries troops (not a problem if you report the positive too, which was few and far between) how can I trust their reporting on Israel/Gaza (or anything for that matter)?
how can I trust their reporting on Israel/Gaza
You can't.
But even pointing out that the BBC, for example, are selling us Hamas statements as fact (while they at the same time ignore Israeli statements) merely leads to accusations of thinking that the whole world is anti-Semitic.
I find it hilarious that America is seen as pro-Israel because of her support for Israel, while the UN, who send money and aid to the Arabs, are not seen as pro-Arab and must be regarded as nautral.
I will see the UN as nautral in this conflict as soon as they fire all Hamas members working for the UN, give as much money to Jewish refugees as they have given to Arab refugees, and build schools and hospitals in Israel like they do in the "Palestinian" territories.
But as long as the UN openly and proudly grant privileges to Arab refugees while officially not acknowleding Jewish refugees, allow Hamas to fire from UN schools,and share phone lines with Hizbullah, I think it is fair to say that they have chosen sides. I am surprised that is even an issue.
(How do I know the UN permit Hamas to do that? I have seen videos showing firing from UN buildings. The UN claim it didn't happen. Why would they deny that Hamas fired from their buildings unless by admitting it they would be admitting a war crime?)
Actually, I dont think it would be a war crime. Admission would have 2 effects. Show they are just paper tigers, and that they do side with Hamas. Neither of which is fatal, but both would destroy any perceived effectiveness they have by any rational person. Something they have for the most part already lost, but which they still hide behind the illusion of.
Actually, I dont think it would be a war crime. Admission would have 2 effects. Show they are just paper tigers, and that they do side with Hamas.
Shooting from a school is a war crime.
But on the plus side, and this made me really happy, German news site n-tv.de have a poll up (no link, but can be found next to some articles) that reads
Keine unabhängige Berichterstattung aus Gaza. Glauben Sie den Bildern trotzdem?
Further reactions from Germany:
Angela Merkel (Christian Democrat), the prime minister of Germany, blames Hamas and "understands" the Israeli reaction.
Frank-Walter Steinmeier (Social Democrat), the foreign minister, condemns the Israeli "attacks".
Joschka Fischer (Green), the former foreign minister (Schroeder's government), also blames Hamas and showed solidarity with Israel. (He is an exception in the Green party, but also their most popular representative.)
Firstly, This is very reminiscent of the first AND second intifada numbers... where israel said it killed under 50 people, lost under 50 people, and the PLO said the about 1000 "israeli sympithizers" were executed. Not to mention that we actually have evidence of booby trapped schools. And that the hamas could be pulling those numbers LITERALLY out of their ass.
But lets say for example that israel killed 1000 of them.
there are about 500,000 people in gaza alone. 1000 / 500000 = 1/500 = 0.002% of the population. Again israel manages to break historical records for the low amount of the POPULATION of an enemy COUNTRY that is killed in a war.
That % was of the TOTAL POPULATION... no "combatant vs non combatant"... which I explained clearly. In vietnam for example. 1-2 million combatants were killed on both the south and north sides. And about 20 million civilians were killed (about 10 million per side), and that is out of 200 million total in the country. So 10% death toll of civilians (20 milliton out of 200 million). I suggest you look up other conflicts and see for yourself how many people died...
Every war you look at, EVER, before or after, except those of israel. Feature such death tolls. Israel keeps on driving the numbers into the lower and lower percentages. Oh, and those 0.002%? thats only of gaza strip cause I have no figures as to how many are in the west bank (which is part of the same country of palastine since 2004).
Yes, Hamas is committing war crimes, but the UN is not.
I think I see the problem. I took your statement to read that the UN would be committing a war crime, when what you were trying to say was that they would then be seen as supporting war criminals. And that I do agree with. But then that goes to the second part of my statement, that while they (UN) attempt to maintain the veneer of some noble body, in truth, they are no better than the scum they do support.
I took your statement to read that the UN would be committing a war crime, when what you were trying to say was that they would then be seen as supporting war criminals. And that I do agree with.
Exactly. (Although I am sure supporting war criminals is also a war crime.)
The UN cannot admit that they allow Hamas to shoot from or hide in UN buildings.
German news site n-tv.de actually gives Palestinian officials as the source of the numbers. Judging from the poll results I told of earlier, it seems that most Germans understand that a "Palestinian official" in Gaza is a Hamas terrorist.
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