Okay, I bought Sins online with my CC the day I saw it won Game of the Year. Must be decent + Stardock look after customers so bingo - got my xmas money. And the award (and Stardock's rep) proved well founded. Everything about it was very impressive. Long download for me but worth it and grand game.
Then soon after on New Years Eve I see Entrenchment listed for sale as micro-expansion. I buy it cos my experience in this short time with Sins and Stardock combo has been great. Unfortunately, I don't see the word BETA anywhere until after my purchase, after downloading, afterinstalling, when first running the game it says WARNING BETA. Great - paid to be a BETA tester. Very annoying start but I think maybe the game is nearly finished.
But not so. Worse than this hoodwinking, I start playing, same exact game but you got Starbases and Mines now is only difference I notice. Starbases cost too much and dont do crap - better to have put a fleet there for 20k instead of upgrading this mini-turret to cover one corner that they all fly past anyway. And Mines - Yay - stupidiest inclusion I can imagine. Someone forgot to ask themselves "is this actually fun?" as they looked at 5000 mines surrounding every single enemy planet now. Not really mines cos in my limited understanding, mines are dangerous but these are magical mines that only bother me and dont bother the enemy their ships immune to the explosions engulfing my whole fleet.
And still even worse, my game lugs to a grinding crawl... on a super computer I just bought 3 weeks ago, presumably cos there are 500000000000000 magical mines across the universe.
So I say goddam I got tricked by stardock into being a BETA TESTER and even paying for the privelage. Very well done, kudos to you business types but leaves pissed off customer whose experience is no so keen as when I entered into this relationship.
Worse, I think it is time we broke up cos I thought fine - wasted my money, I'll just uninstall the BETA I paid for but Sins doesn't have uninstall in launcher or start. So I use windows remove prgrams to remove Entrenchment but guess what now Sins dont even work. I got lots of files and a big mess and two games I paid for, well one game and one beta, and nothing works.
So, all that irritation needs to go somewhere so here it is. My feedback - if something is a BETA test that may completely ruin customer experience and completely ruin customer original gameand not even be uninstallable, perhaps DONT SELL IT YET!!!!
Ta. And now, unable to even play Sins, I am off to shops to buy the other game of the year Fallout in hopes the shop will not have a BETA version like your sneaky impulse does!
Original game was good, but overall experience is now much bittered. I hope someone who makes this decisions reads this. Thanks but no thanks.
We apologize for the inconvenience. January 1 was set as a placeholder release date for Entrenchment after the initial release was pushed back, but due to the server failures over the holiday we were unable to push the date further forward until after it had already popped up "for sale" for a short while.
If you mistakenly purchased it during the time it was showing as live on Impulse and do not wish to preorder/beta Entrenchment, please inquire with sales@stardock.com about a refund.
Actually, being a beta tester was a perk for those who pre-ordered (which I do believe it says you are doing). you don't pay to be a beta tester, it's just something you get for pre-ordering. it's your choice on whether or not you actually download the Beta.
(edit: missed the post above)
also, you're complaining because the BETA isn't perfect? THAT'S WHY IT'S A BETA! if you don't want to be a beta-tester, then don't download the beta.
the only real downside, tho is that you have to remove Sins and reinstall it to get it to work again w/o the beta. just update it only to v1.12
Since it was installed with Impulse, Impulse uninstalls it. You can easily play the original Sins without Entrenchment beta.
Hey AU_Armageddon, try to relax. When the full version comes out, you won't have to pay again for it.
You should look at this as a positive thing; a chance to check out some new features. I personally found that the mines make the game unplayable, same as you. So I just decided to uninstall Entrenchment and wait until the full version comes out. Sins is plenty of fun even without the expansion, so I can wait.
If the expansion was not meant to be released yet, as Kryo just said, then we should consider ourselves quite lucky for the sneak peek.
Ah I see, so I am merely victim of coincidence - bad timing and not bad practice. Apology accepted Meester Kryo, ta.
Orodum - I don't want to be a BETA tester or d/l a beta and never did. The product was sold as complete without the word BETA being anywhere in purchase process until you actually run it. I found it to be an unexpectently ugly practice given Stardock rep, but Meester Kryo has clarified it was an accident with refund available so I am happy with that response. It is the principal of the thing - knowing they are not intentionally being deceptive fixes everything. Mistakes are not good, but given all factors of timing, these things can happen so that's life.
Thanks amnatar, I was unaware impulse was required to uninstall the game. As it happens, mine's a complete mess cos I let windows try uninstall the bETA and windows has wrecked the original too. I like it better when games including xpacs all have an uninstall tab so there is no confusion as to process but mebbe that is a BETA quirk.
Ta all. Moving on...
You'll probably have to delete the registry values now and just wipe the install folder, then re-do it. And yeah, because it's a beta it's not fully complete there. When it launches officially, we are supposed to be able to select if we want to play vanilla Sins or Entrenchment but right now it just over-writes.
I completely agree with AU_Armageddon. I did the same exact thing he did not even knowing it was beta. I'm such a fan of Sins though I was like whatever that's cool. But unfortunately a great game I'm in won't load anymore. Been playing it for a couple days and now I'm bummed I can't finish it.
Very cool though that kryo responded with an explaination, apology, and an offer of refund. I like Stardock.
Looking forward to the final (stabile) release.
It's ten bucks people. That's two cups @ Starbucks and a newspaper.
There's some good feedback here, actually. Impulse should NOT show a release date on something if the release date isn't known. Don't put in placeholder dates, especially ones that are obviously wrong. "Release Date: Unknown (currently in beta)" would have prevented this misunderstanding.
lol maybe someone should pay more attention. I do have to agree with this but if your going to buy something you have to take teh consequences. It's not stardocks fault you didn't pay attention to forums or anything. You're just one in a long list of people to already make thoe complants. I agree with you. Vasari are also lacking a torpedo ship which i'm mad about but starbase's aren't crap they are actually good its just that you need to know how to play to use them well. Starbase's are actually right now overpowered its the upgrades. Please i've seen another post like this. It's STUPID you post was badly thought out ill planned and no one forced to buy the game before looking around. I'm guessing if it says beta test warning i'd think it was in a beta test. Sorry if you're having a stupid block but thats not our problem and don't make it. Personally i think entrenchment does need more but i'm not complaining it's not even out yet. ALL BETAS ARE ROUGH. The reason to join the beta isn't to play for fun ( i have to admit it is fun but...) you're improving the game not getting it early.
I understand if AU's "attack" on Stardock is upsetting, but the issue has been resolved. Please avoid personal insults.
People are now expected to go check the forums in order to verify that products the store are properly labelled?
If multiple people are all complaining about the beta policy and the way it's presented in the Impulse store, maybe there's an actual problem.
It doesn't say beta test. It says "pre-order" in one easy to miss spot on the page, except during the time Kryo mentioned where it didn't.
They admitted there was a problem there, which is good customer service.
... sigh. Did you read his post? He didn't know he was getting a beta. When you think you're buying a finished product and you get an early beta, yes you're going to be disappointed at the results. It's not on the customer to research if something for sale is a beta or not, anything for sale that isn't release quality should be clearly marked as such. Doing otherwise leads to bad customer experiences like this.
It's a simple problem to fix. Your hurling insults at him really doesn't do anything helpful whatsoever, unless your goal is a rabid fanboy defense of Stardock. (Which isn't necessary, kryo handled it in the first reply.)
Ok i'm sorry for saying that i'm jsut angry that peopel are attacking stardock. I don't think peopel should attack a company when it's just trying to stay up. I'd say they are doing great. When i meant check the forums or at least check this site i meant to find out if this is beta. I'm sorry for being insulting and i was just angry. Besides if you wait a month or 2 the real game will be out i don't know that is so bad. A month wait. I've waited quite a while.
So I say goddam I got tricked by stardock into being a BETA TESTER and even paying for the privelage. Very well done, kudos to you business types but leaves pissed off customer whose experience is no so keen as when I entered into this relationship. Worse, I think it is time we broke up cos I thought fine - wasted my money, I'll just uninstall the BETA I paid for but Sins doesn't have uninstall in launcher or start. So I use windows remove prgrams to remove Entrenchment but guess what now Sins dont even work. I got lots of files and a big mess and two games I paid for, well one game and one beta, and nothing works.
I have to say is this attacking really. Stardock tricked him into it. This sounds more like a rant than a complain. I would have liked it if it was more fact based than opinion. I agree that teh issue is resolved with his complaint about not knowing it was a beta and i have to agree taht would be fustrating.
Paying for the privelage of being a beta tester is also very plausible. Would you want to create a game going into a million dollars in debt just to wait until the game came out to make money. I think it provides income and if it was free to join it's just like giving you the game free.
It doesn't say beta test. It says "pre-order" in one easy to miss spot on the page, except during the time Kryo mentioned where it didn't. They admitted there was a problem there, which is good customer service.
Agreed and sorry.
rabid fanboy defense of Stardock
Us rabid fanboy's also have to have something to do.
Did i even imply that. I didn't say that. He's also on the forums now. He must have been angry if he didn't check the forums before to know it was beta that he created an account JUST to insult stardock.
The way it sounded to me is that he jumped into the game without thinking about looking around. Do you buy something without at least checking a little bit about it. I've done that and its a win lose scenario. It may be great it may not. Entrenchment is in early beta testing. Thing is he complained about how poorly the game is. Its not just him insulting how stardock does it's selling and marketting and everything but he's also targetting ironclad about the game. The game is beta. He must have learned it was beta at the loading screen and then relized "oh no" a quick post about not knowing it was beta would be fine.
This WAS an insult to how stardock does things. I'm sorry but if you or armageddon could run starddock better or are even qualified to please let me know. I know i'm not.
Also you pretty much attacked me. 99% of what i said is up there being picked apart. I'm sorry if i'm defending someone with a little bit of anger. I do agree with you no insults were needed but the post was poorly thought out. He could have stated taht he didn't know and he'd like a refund. Small post no longer than a few lines. He CONTINUED on to attack the game and say how horrible it was. IT'S A BETA.
FORMAL APPOLOGY HERE. Sorry for attacking armageddon about this post. I wrote it on a bad day. I appoligize scencerily but i still am angry that you did just as much attacking unto me as you accused me of. I'm sorry if this post sounded angry at peopel it's just meant to help peopel relize that not everythign is perfect and we can't expect that of stardock. (Nothing is perfect.)(Expecially my previous post.)
Well, he also said "Ah I see, so I am merely victim of coincidence - bad timing and not bad practice. Apology accepted Meester Kryo, ta." before your first post. So it was like you jumped on him after he'd already backed off and had the situation resolved, which got me going.
It's cool. It got fixed for him, that's the important thing. I just hope they take note and correct the release date issue in a future version of Impulse.
touche' sorry i didn't see that reply lol i must have skipped it (BIG OVERSIGHT) i did read teh whole post and i got down a few before i wrote my own. I red teh first 3 literally then skipped like 2 then kept reading at teh 2starbucks coffies and a newspaper. Seriouslly i did. WOW i feel um... stupid... ya
If Windows has made a mess of it, just delete the game directory, C:\Program Files (x86)\Stardock Games\Sins of a Solar Empire, and the settings/saves files C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire Sins doesn't make any registry changes so that will completely remove it. If you do want to reinstall just original Sins, open Impulse, it will detect that Sins is gone, but that you've paid for it, so under the games tab it will list Sins of a Solar Emire, and Etrenchment, separately, as available, just select the original, you'll have to go through the long download of the whole game again, but atleast your original purchase won't have been wasted.
I think by placeholder date they mean for the system, not for buyers, it is likely that the system is designed so that a release date is necissary for them to put it up for sale, and as the system is designed for distribution of (at the very least) all of stardock's software, they can't just rewrite it for a single game by Ironclad. By allowing people to pre-order it they've reduced congestion and thus errors in placing and processing orders when the stable version is finally released, and they've set up a system that allows people who are interested to test the beta, which in turn means the release will be that much sooner.
I remember when I bought/pre-ordered Entrenchment it clearly states you have access to the beta version till the official release, I would check this up to confirm on impluse but I am at work.
itkept the Jan 1st date and said it was released for sale after that. that was the problem. it said you could get the full Entrenchment, but you could only get a beta. but i believe that issue has been resolved now
I see a lot of things here I agree with. I too "purchased" the beta without the realization that it was in fact a beta. Better announcement of the prodcut would be appreciated. The fact that it's not listed as a beta anywhere on the product page, directly accesible from the "Top Sellers" list, made it seem like a late Christmas present. Since it's been removed fromt the "Top Sellers" list I'm assuming that there are more people like me who made the same mistake. The fact that my listed price in the confirmation email was $0.00 made me realize I haven't paid for anything yet.
The beta, as it stands right now, is a mess. The starbases don't work, meaning the upgrades don't do anything, and I had all sorts of resource malfunctions buying ships, upgrades, tech and so on. Credits/Minerals being mysteriously added then removed, being able to purchase items on "credit" or going negative was kind of a let down. My experience was that the client never got "chunky". But my buddy and I didn't want to finish out game because of the game play issues..which leads me on to my next gripe.
Stardock...please don't go the way of the dodo by becoming a crappy game company. I dislike the idea of having to download a client specifically to ensnare me into Impulse..unless I missed something that was the only way to get the most recent release...if I'm mistaken I'd love to be corrected. Secondly, after uninstalling entrenchment the correct way I soon realized that it didn't peel back to the previous version of the Sins client. Instead I had to redownload and reinstall the client. Once again, if I'm mistaken I do appologize. Long story short, my joyfull "Entrenchment is here!" call to the rest of the clan quickly became "It's not entrenchment, it's a wannabe beta that will make you vomit and then force you to completely start over with your sins client!"
In my opinion, and I've been playing games for longer than I care to consider, it's hard for a developer to make a great game like SOASE is, truly amazing in fact. It's very easy for a game developer to fall from grace simply because they want to make things cooler. EA almost lost my business with EA link and Northern Strike, I have friends who still aren't able to redownload NS after reinstall of 2142 without paying for it a second time for a "fresh copy". We aren't rocket scientists but we're not blathering idiots, true gamers don't need a flashy program or easy access. If it's a great game that comes wrap in poop, we'll still install it and then wash our hands.
My experience with downloading Entrenchment, I paid for it, then a window popped up saying something along the lines of the beta version is available for download, would you like to do so now. If I were you I would have then researched the beta, there are multiple instances on the forum of the DEVs saying outright that it's a messy beta, not a clean release candidate.
I have to agree with Orodum.
I bought the game as a beta just like i did with SINS and i enjoy trying out the beta's and get a real impression of the game and the effort the compay puts into listening what beta testers say.
PS i looked at the time stamps and did anyone else notice Kryo posted in under 10 mins offering a refund? Now that is some service. I dont care if he was surfing or whatever and just happened to see the thread it still shows a lot about the company.
yea its a bit of a letdown to think your getting a new expansion, only to find out its still in beta. Kinda like when you see the release date, and it comes..only to find out its pushed back again, and again. Frustrating but the crew here wants to make sure its ready to go, not full of bugs and glitches. Thats what i like about stardock, that and so far they have top notch customer service.
I myself will not get involved in the beta, not because i dont like the idea, i just have to spend it for necessary things instead of entertainment. *shakes the evil fist of doom at the economy*
At least in my experience with other betas, I expected quite a few less show stoppers for the game... eg, its basically unplayable for me in anything but single player. I was more thinking I'd get to see how the devs balanced the game and worked with our feedback to make the experience better... and now all I care about is getting a bug fix so there are no longer desyncs... I was probably playing 2-3 sins games a week before the beta rolled out. I haven't touched the game now in over 3 weeks. How about some sort of hotfix, or are the desyncs all tied to the rediculous amount of mines later in the game?
It's pretty nice to have instant (optional) access to the beta when preordering the expansion, since it gives you a good feeling for what your buying, and if it turns out to be "broken" (like all the desynchs in MP) then you can shrug, uninstall it and wait for the final release. (and at only $10 hard to pass up)
If more companies offered free beta access to preorder buyers, games would get a lot more play testing and come out a lot more finished instead of the 1/2 finished piles of junk you often find on the store shelves. (UBI Soft/EA anyone?) Then again if other companies had 1/2 the quality rep & support Stardock/Ironclad does I;d actually have difficulty deciding where to put my $$. (As it is stardock games are a "well of course it's worth the money" purchase.)
Most companies' betas are little more than prerelease demos. Ours are not. The only reason there haven't been any updates yet has been because of the holiday break.
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