Hi everyone. I just bought that game (the retail box) for 50$ CAD (40$ USD) yesturday and I don't really know if I am glad or not. Let me explain myself.
First: That search function on this forum totally suck. It's totally useless so I have no idea if anyone already mentioned what I'm about to.
Second: I have been looking the forums for long time and I found that this game came out this summer so it's still a young game. When after installing the game and all the updates, I saw the introduction movie wich is really nice. Showing the 3 races with their background and their story. At this point, I was really excited to start playing that game. Unfortunatly, after watching that nice introduction video, an incredible sadness appeared into me; that game has no Story or Scenario at all!!!!
Let me explain. I compare SOSE to Starcraft cause almost everyone will know what I'm talking about. In Starcraft, in single player mode, you have missions related with the gameplay with all the races and you have a story that reunite those missions together. Can you imagine how cool it could be to have same kind of missions/story/scenario in SOSE? Like taking a really well guarded planet, or destroying a specific target, or going to a planet without beeing killed. There are so much possibility of missions you guys can incorporate to that game. Yes, I think it's a big lack that this game do not have any story or missions in single player mode.
Dunno if the dev team have ever thought about that but I think that it should be a primary feature of SOSE cause what I'm doing now? Starting a game that will land for more than 6 hours against computers on random maps? Anything else?
Don't miss understand me. I really like this game till now and I will surely continue to play it alot. I know that there is a lot of work behind this and i can't wait to see the Entrenchment expansion but I think you guys should think about that cause I am sure it could bring something fresh/new and really interesting to SOSE.
Tho' im sure that there will be a *story-mode* at some pont, this game much clooser to CIV/MOO series than sttarcraft, it is a 4x-rts game where starcraft is just an rts
And why is a do this map then this map then taht map better than just playing random maps anyway? I don't think i ever played a campaign in an RTS game, and the few times i did it was more as a tutorial than anything else
My imaginatin >>>>> any crap story
remember we are talking game developers not writers on the level of Ian Banks etc etc.
You have a week. At the end of this week, you need to be able to juggle bowling pins with your testicles.
You spend seven days working on your technique. The pins go under, around, and behind your thighs! You can do forward and reverse cascades! You spin one of the pins around your shaft and pop it up over your head in stacatto rhythm that echoes the beat of "Baby Got Back" while the pins whirl and dance!
At the end of the show, seven pins are standing balanced percariously on the tip of your dong, arms spread, beaming into the spotlights!
Some guy down in the cheap seats at the back starts bitching about the fact the pins aren't painted lapis lazuli and inscribed with the signs of the zodiac.
Sure, you could have done that, but it'd have taken four days and you'd never have pulled off that Around the World thing with the kazoo and the pin on a rope.
You're the guy in the crowd.
ROFLMAO
That might have been one of the funniest things i have ever read. Made my day.
On that note, i do agree that a story mode would be nice. Star craft had a really good story for an rts and thats one of the reasons why people claim its one of the best rts ever. Sins has the foundation for a really good story, its got 3 completly differnet races that are just begging to be explored. It would be a real shame if the game never gets into any kind of detail with the story.
OP, you shouldn't take some of these responses personally. You're not the first to ask for a story mode, and likely will not be the last, so ppl get aggravated at the repetition.
I also agree, a story mode would do wonders for the Sins community. The story of Starcraft is what made the game so damn memorable. It brought millions into the starcraft community and made the game a legend. Once they had the player base, they continued to support and balance the game, and made it into the form of art it is today.
The reality is, it takes years to really balance and flesh out a game. If the process ever really ends. To do that, the devs of Sins need a large player base to finance that effort. With <1million units sold, I'm not sure if they have enough to really support this game, at least not from the initial purchase. The response is what's happening w/the micro-expansions. But sadly, it's highly unlikely that the player base will *expand* from these micro transations. Almost certainly, the player base will slowly shirnk each time, as players lose interest and move on.
I mean, seriously, when Starcraft 2 comes out, who's going to want to play Sins??
Ppl like diffrent stuff, some like 30min games others like to have games last 10hours.
Tho' i will get SC2 and see if it balanced enough for competativ play that does not mean sins becomes obsoleet, Chess vs Poker ya'know
I will, for one, if only because I prefer RTS where you don't have to be a hyperactive 12 year old hopped up on Ritalin and intraveinous meth to play competitively in the bottom rungs of a ladder. I tend to prefer games where micro-managing my thirty-hundred different Terran Marines to get an additional 0.005% dps out at 400 interactions-per-second isn't considered the pinnacle of play. I may -- and this possibly might come as a surprise to some -- prefer a story that hadn't been done before and better by the writers for Games Orkshop in the late 80's.
These may be alien thoughts to some folk. I can only hope their brainmeats don't swell to terrible proportions and explode messily.
Honestly, folks, can we just decide as a community to shun people who wander in, wide-eyed and stunned by the very thought that a development house might not be interested in telling them a story? Can we establish that there are things that are worth-trading off for which are better than a wanky four-hour extended tutorial on steroids? Maybe put together a single, definitive thread on the issue, get it stickied and be done with it except to silently point to the posted sign with a look of horrified disgust at the next goon who drops in and doesn't notice it surrounded in glowing pink neon and firecrackers?
Maybe this can be that thread.
I totally trust Craig and Blair to tell me the backstory of Sins. Seriously, I do. At some point we'll ended up handed an engine with an integrated, complex, brilliantly nuanced scenario / campeign editor within which they finally decided to build their Magnum Opus. I most assuredly don't want it today. Or even soon. The development roadmap for the next 6months-and-change is already set, and it's full of crunchy goodness. None of that stuff should be swapped out to pursue some nebulous crapsack idea that there must be a campeign in every game.
Few games have pulled it off in anything like a worthwhile way, anyway. Homeworld was the pinnacle of that kind of design, in my experience. I rather liked Supreme Commander's, though it was sadly not very experimental in terms of creating contexts for your experience. Starcraft? Seriously, that's not exactly high concept storytelling going on in that campeign. If we could possibly stop ever seeing it used as something to aspire to in terms of campeign design, my eyes might stop trying to boil out of their sockets.
Short version for the TL;DR crowd: Put the issue to bed and be done with it. No campeign in the short term. No pressure for one unless it can be done well in the long term. So mote it be.
Yup, this has been mentioned once in a while...
Originally, there was a campaign mode planned. However, due to the rather small team (five? seven? sth like that) they had to make some choices
Ok, the devs had three options:
1.Don't publish anything and run out of money while concentrating properly on gaming mechanics AND a single player campaign.
2. rush on and make everything at once and deliver a half made product with bad game mechanics and a fast thrown in campaign.
3.Do one thing properly, get some money and then concentrate on the other half.
Well, good news: They stuck with the third point. The Devs already mentioned that they had a story up their sleeves and they are building on it (rumours have it, that it is being implemented in the third x-pansion). In the mean time, they are building the game around user's input. It resulted in the often asked "Entrenchment" X-pansion, which focuses on defense (originally the game was meant to be a fast attack simulation. Now, because several people have asked for it, they are changing that a bit...). The second X-pansion will focuse on the diplomatic aspects (you might be able to buy planets, trade fleets, bribe other's...). And the third one is officially a secret (hehe...). Most probably it will have a campaign mode, perhaps a campaign editor and a fourth race? Just guessing and hoping...).
Be patient, young padawan... For such a small team, they already delivered sth amazing. The rest will come eventually (However, it might still take a year...)
Hmm. I disagree. I think Video games are primarily a way to tell a story, just in an interactive way. With exceptions, no matter what you do in the game, it won’t change the story. It doesn't matter if you play defensively, offensively, use rushes, only use a shotgun, turn left or right, run around in circle, explore every nook and cranny, no matter what you do you still see every point and arrive at the same ending. Just like a book, it doesn't matter if I read fast or slow, upside down, all in one sitting, or over the course of weeks, I still hit every point and reach the same ending.
There are exceptions, KOTOR had different endings, but the story basically stayed similar, and they were preset endings, not endings of your own creation. You also have games like Sim City that don't have an ending, but they are designed for a specific crowd, and even then, eventually those people get bored.
If the story wasn't such an important part of the game then there would be no reason to include it and your games would basically be juggle bowling pins with your testicles, a weird and random feat to master. Sins has a Foundation for a story and awesome game play so it functions without a developed story. If sins game play wasn't so top notch then it would have a lot less fans, but if its game play was decreased and it story increased an equal amount then it would have the same fan base, if the story was increased to that amount and it kept its great game play its fan base could double.
The story that Sins does have is pretty good, and people can see that. It’s got space, and space ships, and planets, and war. We can all understand that and connect to it. Without something we can connect to, either no story or a completely convoluted mess that makes no sense, the game boils down to some form of repetitive task, and those get boring.
And now that my little rant is finished, I agree that I eventually expect that a campaign will be released and it will be as great as this game deserves it to be. I would even settle for a Book, or Movie, or cartoon, or manga, or even a stick figure drawing. Well maybe not the last one. Point is I would like some form of developed story for this game, but I don't need it now, just eventually. It would be nice if we could get a concrete affirmative (Or a no) on whether or not there will be some development of the story, just so we can all rest easy. Perhaps it will come in the 3rd expansion.
And lastly, I would like to point out that StarCraft did have a good story line in generally, but for an RTS it was really good. (I was sorta upset when I had to kill Fenix and Duke in those last few Zerg missions). Any form of story is a type of art, and all art is subjective, so just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it wasn't still good, in fact since the only way to really judge art is by basing how the majority feels about it, and since the majority thinks that Starcraft had a great story, then by that simple fact, it does have a great story.
I agree that the game needs a campaign, even though I personally am not interested in one, simply because it's a very common request.
That having been said, for those who get bored with the single player game, I'd like to cordially invite you to consider playing the game in online multiplayer, at which point you will no longer feel a need to have a single player campaign. Just click the <Ironclad Online> button, make an account, and come join the fun. New players can play humans v. AI games and enjoy having human teammates and someone to chat with and learn from. Those who are more bold might consider humans v. humans games.
So don't fret about the lack of a campaign! Come join the online Sins community!
Silvenus totally understood my point.
I didnt say i want a story campaign tomorrow, I just said that this game a very nice potential to do a story campaign and that it could only be good for the game.
I didnt say that the game actually suck cause it has no story, I said that I was kinda sad to find out that it has no story at all.
And finally, this was an opinion, you can like it or not and it's hard to judge an opinion cause its subjective.
That having been said, I will try online multiplayer but first i'll get some better experience with the game before. Yesturday, I went to multiplayer but I found no game at all. But in main page on this site, there were talking about that kind of bug I think. Anyway, I will give another try today.
***Btw, I know that a moderator already answered to my next question in another post but the search function sux here and I'm not able to find the topic, so here goes my question : How do we remove the interface to take nice screenshot? (I'm not talking about cinematic, it's easy to remove that) Thx.
im pretty sure it's ctrl+shift + Z
I agree. It saddened me greatly that sins didn't come with a campaign.
I am a history buff, of sorts, and I enjoy reading about things like that.
Hell, I'd have settled for a detailed description of the timeline. In text. I'd read it. Yes.
If I am to keep playing this game, I am going to need a full-fledged campaign eventually. Doing random maps is fun and well, but in the end you end up with a desire for more of the back story.
Watching the intro movie for the first time got me so exited, I couldn't wait to find out more in the campaign mode.. Imagine my disappointment when I found there wasn't one.
At any rate, like another poster wrote - can we please have a yes or no if a campaign will eventually be made? I've already prepaid the micro-expansion, so I will definetely buy a campaign expansion. With a vengeance, too.
Seriously guys RTS are for Random Map and Multyplayer. If you want a story you really need to go play Diablo, Guild Wars or any other MMO. Most serioud RTSers could care less about a story. I personally would never play it as has been said before who needs a 16 hour tutorial.
"Most" RTS'ers? I'll have you know I'm an avid RTS'er. I still enjoy a good campaign for the back-story to the game world - and interesting characters in cut-scenes. Is that really so horrible you feel you must berate people who like this sort of thing?
I hate posting in threads like these, because I know someone is going to find a thousand things wrong with what I say and decide to piont them all out and miss the whole point, but since I also just recently purchased the game this topic is near and dear to my heart.
This is very simple and common sense thing to me, so I do not even know why there is a discussion here. In the great scheme of things a single player campaign dosen't matter because most of us will end up playing on-line or using different mods or whatever. However, the game should have had one WHEN released because the damn thing sets you up for one. The only game I can even think of that did not include a single player story line is the Space Empires series. It really wasn't needed due to the nature of the game, and you know what? There is no real opening cinematics, no story line, you just pop in the game, set up your galaxy, and get to work. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I love SE5. The problem here is that Sins pulls you into the story with a great opening movie, and a great background on the warring factions. The game is delivered to us as a 3-way battle for survival in the galaxy, but this is not how it is played. There are not 3 warring factions, there are up to 10 (or more, I don't know max number of players), there are simply 3 playable races. 10 of us can play a game as all TEC, and that completely trashes the entire premise of the game.
I could go on, especially in rant mode, but it really doesn't matter. I'm just trying to make a simple point. Who cares if the game doesn't have a story line? I would like one, but I love the game so far without one. My point is simply that the game appears to be designed for one. If there was no intention of including one, many things should have been left out. If they do intend on including one, the game should have never been released without it. This is not something to be added later, and is probably the main reason why such an awesome, and highly rewarded, game has sold so few copies so far.
On a completely separate note, I have been trying to figure something out in game. Don't hate me for the question, I already mentioned that I just got the game. How do you capture things? I notice in some systems there seem to be structures (extractors) that are pre existing, and it says they can be captured. I couldn't find anything in the manual or in the forums about just how to do that. I played around a bit in game to see what would happen, but I can't figure it out. I have a feeling I am over complicating it.
Actually, RTS is for Real Time Strategy. It refers to the way in which the game is played. Random maps and multiplayer are simple gameplay preferrences. Most serious RTSers simply want a challenging game, and since the AI usually doesn't challenge us we eventually find ourselves online. However, it is great to have some background info on the story, especially one that is built up like this. I should also point out that since so many people have asked for a campaign, saying that most RTSers could care less means you didn't actually read anything here.
Even if that were true, most GAMERS want a campaign. Most GAMERS will have no intention of playing this game more than a couple of times before shelving it forever. It's just the ways it is. Do you play every game you own over and over? Maybe the best ones, or mayber you find one you can play online indefinitely if that's your thing.
If you want to debate that by saying something to the effect of, "Well, this game was only intended for the true online RTSer," you just answered the question as to why it has sold so few copies. I can't believe the devs had that intention, since someone on that side has to know it would doom the game to failure, so I'm guessing it was just an oversite.
thats not gamers thats kids that play with a toys, and imo letting them anywhere near a forum will in the end destroy a game
Gamers use games to compete like jocks compete in sports, if you can't compete i can understand the wish for a campain(16hour tutorial)
a more valid complaint for this game imo, is the lack of a ladder or points system to enhance the compatition(win stats are a really bad way to judge skill lvl)
and if you think 500000-1000000 sold is bad for a game that uses mostly word to mouth and is developed by 10 man crew, well i suggest you atend a class or 2 on buissnizz as you don't have a clue.
and btw this is a 4xrts, as with most 4x games the sory is ... 3 races meet ... start game.
TEC and Advent uses colonization frigs to capture them(they have a 2'nd abillity to capture extraxtors) and the Vasari uses it's scout frig(one of the perks for the race- quick econ)
You watched the intro video? You want a story? Imagine your own. Get in character. It rocks.
Nah, it doesn't. Because like someone previously stated, everyone is at war.
I want a game where I feel the enemy at the gates, they are nabbing solar systems, I am a commander with an army that's basically dead and rusted, with only a few rudementary planetary defenses to guard against uprisings, raiders and the like.
I want to FEEL what it's like to be swarmed by two races, further more, I want to understand the Vasari's motivations for attacking the trade federation, and I want more of the underlying motivation of the Advent.
Is that so horrible?
no ,ofc not. But again remember that this game is made by like the smallest dev team ever, there are lot's of stuff that is way more importantatm
as for story
vasari diddent atack stupied humans just thought they where being invaded and started atacking(or independence day like, ripping worlds apart to resupply for their endless flight-> vasari don't have a clue what is after them
advent farseers fortold that unless they unify humanity a great darkness will decend( what is chassing the vasari)
every time you play a new game you reset the story, if you want more wait for the 4'th race
I Agree with most of this. Sins does set you up for a Stroy, like I said it has a great foundation. The game really should have been released with one. I know i read somewhere that they wanted to get the game out at a certian time and that it would create a huge delay if they included the campaign so they left it out. I think sins would have sold alot more if it had been included since the lack of campaign kinda killed off the more casual gamer.
Is still don't see this great for a story some ppl talk about. do you want to play a game or do you want to watch a movie?
As long as noone has invented skynet(omg gief) a campain is just a movie you reset untill you figured out the plot
almost no games have a really good campain( imo the last great was fallout2)
there really is no history in this game, there has not been a war brewing for 100years there is no revolution brewing the only open question is why the advent have chosen this time to reemerge, i geuss i can make a cutscene where some advent psi fortells that they ned to unify now or be destroyed or something, but it could just as well be LEBENSRAUM, in the end it does not matter tothe way the game is played.(remember you have to do certain things in a campain to advance, it is NOT a tell my own story)
imo the only upside for campains in strategy games is that they sometimes contain maps that are trully slated in favor ofthe AI and as such are really hard but again, beat the map/senario once and never find it hard again.
dev time should go into gameplay that enhances the game balance/replayabillity, not on use once and never again features.( or 3 times for campains with diff endings)
when the last content balance patch is released they can make one(but they wont as they'll start up sins2 development instead i geuss)
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