Well, i've been involved in a massive long debate about whether or not hyperspace in star wars is another dimension, universe (some times people interchange these, remember, they're different!), or just simply going faster than the speed of light. (ftl)
What is it? What are you're theories? What are your takes?
Let's stop mucking up WitchFire's thread. That's for the awesomeness that is Saints of a Solar Empire. Not debating. Plus, more people will have input this way! Yay! Debates! Argueing! Setting ourselves at other's throats!
WE already know that alternative dimmension and alternative universe different because the words are completely different.
Now to clear this mess up after somebody posted in the wrong spot because this discussion was redirected by "SSAF"
One Phase space specific jump lines, if you dont follow them your screwed and can't get pulled out by a gravitivic anomaly between the two jump points.
Two hyperspace is just most likely faster than light and can jump any point in the galaxy to any other point in the galaxy unless strong gravity or imitations of gravity pull you out, or crash into the celestial object and die!!!!!!!
I've pretty much made all of my points, actually.
yep that was my last except someone new comes in
That's why i set this up. We all know each others stance, i was just wondering if anyone else would see this and add any new details.
Btw, i'm looking into this on The Force.net. I'm sort of interested now, and i want to see what it really is. Maybe someone there would know.
You know, the Great Hyperspace War was an actual war in Star Wars history. just thought I'd throw that out there.
Oh yeah i thought about that and forgot to mention it.
yeah, i heard about it in KOTOR, but there wasn't really anything mentioned about it, it was only referenced
Yep. That's why i chose the title. I couldn't twist Stark Hyperspace war to fit this, so i used the Great Hyperspace War.
if my memory serves me correctly, it was the first major war fought between the republic and the sith (the species i mean, and its disciples). most people don't know that there have actually been several distinct groups known as "the sith." its quite fascinating, actually. there's a lot of information on wookiepedia about everything star wars-related (thats where most of my information comes from). in fact, i think they recently reached 60000 articles.
on the hyperspace issue, i think we should all recap, just so those who havent found the greatness that is Saints of a Solar Empire (much better than the other fan fiction posted on the sins forums, i have found) can effectively argue for or against our points. i believe that it is an alternate universe, although an alternate dimension is possible. straight-up ftl is just not possible, lucas wasnt stupid enough to directly violate the laws of physics.
Lucas didn't violate the laws of physics in Star Wars?! Are u sure LOL?
FTL would take very long, even with ten times light speed, and there is also the time alteration factor at such high speeds. if that was true, then the fleets would never arrive anywhere in time and would be strung out throughout time. its just unfeasible if it was conventional FTL and not interdimensional travel.
I don't know about that one. Out of all the Space Scifi, Star Wars, is perhaps the worst when it comes to laws pf physics and everything else.
i should have said blatantly, not directly. we may know parsecs are a unit of distance not time, however, your average consumer does not
Gues what Scifi is?
It breaks the laws of the universe that all of humankind knows.
Scifi is not ment to be our universe all the time. StarWars, StarTrek, etc. they are not our laws of physics.
This debated is to figure out how hyperspace works, think outside of the box. Our laws of physics should not constrain our immagination. So right now screw the laws of physics right now. FTL could be possible maybe that hyperspace is 1 million times FTL or a new dimmension that allows fast travel.
That is my wisdom for now....
The great DarthCaedusMorgan has spoken.
Remember all we really know is newtonian physics with a little correction from Einstein. Quantum physics is a different story and could theoretically disprove all of what we now perceive as truth. My two cents...now continue to think outside the box.
Don't forget about bending space, think of it as a ship surfing on a wave of distorted space. Go LHC, show us some cool hadron collisions.
I'm going to stop now for fear of sounding too nerdy.
Hyperspace in starwars is another dimension where things are(simply put) smaller and you don't actually travel any faster, but you get there faster.
Think of it like this. You have point A and point B and in order to travel between them you need to head directly towards them. Now you find an alternate route that allows you to travel there in less time because your actually traveling over a shorter distance.
Thats best thing ever that made sense and a great explanation, kudos for you and a giant space cookie.
I've been thinking about it for some time now, but I've found the book Defender: Hyper Swarm to be an excellent explanation for hyperspace.
Yep. It is fine for soft SciFi to get around the limits of the speed of light by coming up with space folding, short cuts through other dimensions (think of two points at opposite ends of a sheet of paper and you fold the sheet so that they are touching), etc. However, in Starwars they refer to parsecs as a unit of time rather than distance and they make the jump to light speed not FLT as would be required to cover the vast distances.
it was pretty clear from the books that hyperspace was a seperate dimension than the regular universe. They frequently refer to them as real space and hyperspace. Jumping to lightspeed from realspace breaks some kind of barrier that allows you entrance to hyperspace.
quote from wookiepedia http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace
After the course was plotted in the navigation computer, the ship moved to the bearing matching that course and activated the hyperdrive. The ship then accelerated so rapidly that the passengers within the vessel seemed to see the stars stretched into parallel lines when they made the 'jump' to hyperspace. The fact of the acceleration was also observable from outside the vessel, where a ship jumping to hyperspace would appear to undergo a sudden, massive burst of speed and disappear from the physical universe. When entering hyperspace, the starship left conventional existence, or realspace. This phenomenon, known as pseudomotion, occurred as the massive acceleration results in a motion which rendered conventional notions of velocity irrelevant. At hyperspeed, the entire universe is compacted into a blue-shaded 'tunnel' of high-speed blur, effectively cutting off the ship from the normal methods of scanning and detection.
After the course was plotted in the navigation computer, the ship moved to the bearing matching that course and activated the hyperdrive. The ship then accelerated so rapidly that the passengers within the vessel seemed to see the stars stretched into parallel lines when they made the 'jump' to hyperspace. The fact of the acceleration was also observable from outside the vessel, where a ship jumping to hyperspace would appear to undergo a sudden, massive burst of speed and disappear from the physical universe.
When entering hyperspace, the starship left conventional existence, or realspace. This phenomenon, known as pseudomotion, occurred as the massive acceleration results in a motion which rendered conventional notions of velocity irrelevant. At hyperspeed, the entire universe is compacted into a blue-shaded 'tunnel' of high-speed blur, effectively cutting off the ship from the normal methods of scanning and detection.
I like these kinds of debate. I know why most people love them too. There is no right or wrong answer since it's all made up. So everybody can argue forever and never be proven wrong.
Wether it's another universe, dimension faster then light or just a mind boggling illusion all of the answers are false. There is no true answer.
You all have opinions and those are all true.
Enjoy your debate
I'll say this in this thread too. Wookiepedia, while incredibly useful, cannot be fully trusted to be The Truth. Many, many things on it are pure conjecture made by fans. Treating it as the cold hard truth is foolish.
Sorry, just had to say that. Admittedly, hyperspace is sometimes talked about as though it is another dimension, many, many things about hyperspace are not consistant with that fact. For instance:
During the clone wars it's known that a Republic ship going at the speed of light impacted a planet and ripped it apart. And also contrary to popular belief, Katana Fleet didn't stay in hyperspace. Every time it's mentioned it's said to be 'constantly jumping around', and when Thrawn finally finds it, the Katana Fleet isn't in hyperspace, it's drifting out in the middle of space. But really, hyperspace probably isn't another universe. First off, a different universe can't explain the hyperspace cannons. For those of you not well versed in ancient star wars history, hyperspace cannons were just that. They literraly fired a ship into hyperspace. You can't fire something into an alternate reality. Also, gravity wells affect hyperspace wa-a-a-a-ay to much to be another universe. Gravity wells wouldn't extend to another universe, since the mass creating the well wouldn't exist in that other universe. Another thing i noticed, and this is pure conjecture, is that ships cannot see other ships even in the same fleet as them in hyperspace. Were hyperspace another universe, they should hypothetically be able to see any ship using the universe along with them. Going faster than light makes much more sense, because at those speeds other craft, even those the next to you would not be visible. Lightwaves would not have enough time to cross the distance, thus, the other ships would be for all intents and purposes, invisible. I've already mentioned the collision of a ship into a planet, which wouldn't happen if hyperspace was another universe. And the hyperspace disturbances outside the galaxy, which while being a plot dvice to keep everyone in, also fit the ftl theory. The movement and gravitic disturbance of a galaxy's rotation could screw up space around the arae, preventing ships from accelerating to fast. Plus, Outbound Flight was sent to use the force to calm the disturbances. Now how cold the force influence an alternate universe?
It's impossible to know the interaction of gravity in one universe on another universe. Think, if gravity could bleed over from other universes, why aren't there massive random gravitic anomlies all over the place as massive objects in other universes cause gravwells. It's too rediculous to say that every universe has the same number of celestial bodies in the same places, causing the same effects.
Those were all rehashed arguments from the SoaSE thread. Thought i'd post 'em here.
while I do admit that there are some impossiblities in the Star Wars universe (freaking turbofan engines on the X-wing in a vacuum!) the main point we are debating is the likely plot device.
and to tell you the truth, I'm beginning to think that hyper is just outside our dimension - cloe enough to be affected by it, but far enough where it isn't part, technically. like the bent stick/sheet model - traveling along the surface of the stick/sheet is nowhere near as fast as bendin the stick and traveling straight through the space between the points. the space that isn't filled by the stick/sheet would be hyper and the stick/sheet would be realspace.
and the reason that there aren't gravitic disturbances is because chances are that the in the other universe, there are no galaxies on the same place occupied by our galaxy.
as for how the Force could affect another universe - simple, there happens to be Force there as well. another explanation - ITS THE FORCE!!!! The all powerful, the one true destiny, the alpha and omega. okay, maybe I went a little overboard there.
Star Wars takes place in our dimension and universe - in the very beginning it says "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away," not "A long time ago in another dimension or other universe"
I believe in the Hyperspace of Babylon 5 - not Star Wars...
Star Wars seems more like "phase jump" from location to location
Scifi is fiction, and thus it does not need to use the same laws. Star Wars may or may not even be in the same universe.
I think its possible that at one time hyperspace was just going faster then light. But with other scifis having hyperpace differently they changed to follow suit. A lot of scifis tend to be more '"real" , and I use the term loosly, then Star Wars. I think its mainly the newer ones that follow this trend.
Has nothing to do with hyperspace, but it does have to do with the "real" thing. The lasers in Sins and some other Scifis act like lasers. Laser turns on goes to target. You can see the laser while it is on. You turn it off and its off. In star wars they don't act like this. Perhaps they are not really lasers...since you would not be able to see this burst come out and travel like it does. It would be to fast. Perhaps its some kind of tracer that follows the real beam which could be IR. Sorry, I work with lasers so this one with star wars bothers me.
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