I have been having some trouble playing the Centrifuge map against 2 Hard Random AI. So far I've probably lost about 30 straight games on this map. I have found it extremely challenging to come up with any sort of strategy against the AI. I have been basically stagnating after capturing my first 3 worlds. The switch from normal to hard has made the game much more fun but also frustrating. On normal it was almost too easy wasting the AI so I switched to Hard and have been challeneged to the point that I'm ready for some advice.
My basic start strategy has been the following...
1>Buy 100 Crystal.
2>Build Cap Ship Factory. (queue Akkan Cap Ship)
3>Upgrade Planet.
4>Build All Available Resource Extractors.
5>Send Akkan to capture nearest Asteroid.(Cap Ship Factory scuttled)
6>Repeat 3 & 4.
7>Build Two Military Labs.
8>Send Akkan to capture next Asteroid.
9>Repeat 3 & 4.
10>Research Javelin Prototype.
11>Spam Javelins
The problems come shortly after this sequence. Usually I am attacked by all 3 enemies including the pirates, and I have come nowhere near the fleet size I need to drive them back and pummel their planets. I've tried it but I end up getting stretched too thin and losing one or two of my asteroids. The pirates have been manageble but it seems like the AI cheats more ships. Anytime I see them, I get just close to destroying their initial fleet when all of a sudden they roll in with a huge wave of new reinforcements. I have been trying all sorts of variations to this strategy including bypassing the Javelins in order to max out my Military Labs and get the Kodiaks. In one game I successfully did this and was able to hold my planets and back off the AI, but they always (never fail) wear me down in a war of atrition. What I want to know is this...
What can I do to crush one of my enemies quickly. I have noticed in replays that they must cheat more ships because they outproduce me with Tactical structures, Ships, and Logistics. One time I tried an immediate rush to their homeplanet with a Marza and they destroyed it with frigates before I could wipe out their colony. If anyone would care to try this map and give me a viable strategy against two Hard random AI I would appreciate it much. I want to crush!! Maybe I shouldn't be using TEC anymore? Thanks in advance.
The AI is biased against the player. I learned this the other day when 5 hard AI's attacked simultaniously. They make alliances with eachother even at 0% happiness.
Perhaps thats the way that the AI compensates for its lack of intelligence.
Reshearch repair bays, build 3 so they overlab on your boarder worlds laugh as you take out his fleets without loosing a ship.
For starters,
The hard AI is allways going to have a resource boost (it has a multiplier I just don't remember what it is).
If thier is more than one AI they are allways going to gang up on you. Get used to it on the harder settings, the AI can make alliances with each other REALY fast. You can try to get to about %45 and then spam cease fire agreements with a faction on the diplomacy menu.
Then a few questions.
Are you just spamming nothing but Javelins???
Your going to leave your fleet a little lop-sided unless you mix it up at least a little.
What kind of defense are you using on you outpost?
Like Kruppe said, if you build 3-5 repair platforms with a fair sized fleet sitting inside thier range and on orders to hold thier postion. They can hold the planet for like, forever almost without losing any ships.
Are you paying off he pirates?
As for my fleets,I have been spamming Javelins till I get about 10 then I usually switch to Garda, Percheron,and Hoshikos till I can get the Kodiak. Mainly defensive fleets with balance. I have a hard time offensively against the AI because with that Centrifuge map they have numerous routes to go through the back on me. Thats where my biggest problem has been. No offense. Centrifuge is tough. I have crushed the AI on medium maps with more space , but on that small 3 player with the pirates I get overrun in about 30 minutes. I move my fleet to the front to take out a pirate wave and usually do it with minimal if any losses, but while thats going on I have two huge fleets invade my home planet or something like that. I have been using the overlapping repair bays and spreading out a nice wall of Gauss Platforms towards the enemies phase jump entry points. That usually holds them off but like I said they seem to just be able to grind me down. They roll in with 40 or 50 ships to my 15-20, and sometimes both enemies roll in with 40 or more ships and even with repair bays they take me down.
I typically do a minimum of two repair bays and 3-5 GDPs. When I have some extra resources, Ill get the Hangar bays up and do a 3:1 Fighter to Bomber ratio. I'm not sure how quickly I should be pursuing a 2nd or 3rd capital ship, and also whether I should bother with the Protev, since there are several dead asteroids on that map with 5+ neutral mines that can be put to use boosting my resources.
As for the pirates I try to pay them off quite a bit, but I do notice that unless I pay them a ridiculous sum I get outbid. Should I be trying to stay completely defenseve with TEC? it just seems they suck. If I could just get to the Novalith I'd start blasting away their planets one by one. Pirates first of course. I usually can't last that long without them taking a planet or two and losing some research stations in the process.
My most successful attemppt was when I got the Kodiaks and Hosikos, which made a nice fleet to dispatch them quickly, but it still turned out that I was completely on the defensive and eventually overwhelmed by their numbers.I just can't seem to keep up. What am I missing? Or is it the map?
a point on static defense - when up against AI, it doesn't matter where in the gravity well you put it, but if you're fleet is there, they will head toward there. my favorite setup is two repairs, one/two hangars, and the rest is tightly packed static turrets with ships interspersed among them.
get ready to mutitask, doing that map and others like it vs opponents with an incomr 50% higher than you should be hard. But the AI is dumb. If you attack a planet with his main fleet in it, you can circle the well for a loong time, just jump 3-4 ships in and start moving. That will keep your worlds safe while you deal with another enemy
another aproch is to keep scouting and simply build counters to his fleet, you should be able to defeat atleast 50% larger AI fleets without to much trouble IF you design them the right way.
TEC should be one of the better factions to turtle with, given their relatively high armor and repair capabilities (the repair provided by the Repair Bay can be stacked with the Hoshiko's repair function, which can potentially give 60 hull/s repaired, 20 coming from the Hoshi and 40 from the Repair Bay, assuming max research).
It is true the TEC is lacking a lot in terms of raw power when compared against what the Advent and Vasari are capable of bringing to bear (a level 6 Kol is probably a major exception to this), though this is partly made up for by their ability to rapidly produce ships (again, in relative terms).
Pirate raids can be more or less ignored if you have a respectable number of Defense Platforms, Repair Bays, and a Hangar or two (for Cutthroats who don't always stay within firing range of your Platforms). Your Defense Platforms automatically prioritize siege ships, so as long as you have enough guns firing on them and your planet has enough HP to live through the time it takes to destroy the seige ships, your planet is safe. Pirate forces do cut the margin closer when their raid sizes begin to increase and there is an increased presence of Heavy Cruisers.
It's also a good idea to take note of what the AI is mostly using and work out countermeasures. If a significant portion of their fleet is made up of Light Frigates (as is the case early in the game), start building Long Range Frigs. If their fleet contains a large number of LRFs, fighter squadrons and Heavy Cruisers are ideal (though simply outgunning them with more LRFs of your own works).
One strategy that works in theory is researching Timed Explosives for the Arcova Scout Frigate, building a number of them, then directing them all to use the ability on enemy structures. Each cast deals 1500 damage if my memory is correct as well as briefly decreasing damage reduction by 50% (so passing ships essentially deal double damage to them). The problem with this is that the cooldown period for Timed Explosives is 15 minutes, so it works once per wave of scouts.
Finally, reconsider your choice of your first capital ship. Though the Akkan doesn't have the AM regeneration problem of the Protev, its abilties aside from Armistice are rather lackluster. Extra accuracy only helps in asteroid fields/belts, in situations where a Rapture Battlecruiser using Vertigo, or to increase the accuracy of Flak ships when targeting strike craft and the increased range is most effective for the Javelis, but not so much for any other ship. Ion Bolt, though it does disable, is extremely brief and its cooldown time rises at the same rate as the duration of disablement. Consider a more combat oriented capital ship since Centrifuge is a small map and early combat is expected (if your first capital usually reaches level 6, and you are playing version 1.11, give the Marza some thought, since its Missile Barrage will make short work of most frigates).
As far as pirates go, there is one thing I've noticed. The AI will ALWAYS outbid you by like 250 credits when there is what appears to be less than 10 seconds until they launch their pirate raid. Basically, if you save your game when the pirates start to group up, you don't have to outbid anyone until the last few seconds before they depart. This will save alot of money. You need to watch the bids like a hawk though when it nears the end.
You can also try to place a bounty on two different factions. AI generally tends to spend the least amount of credits, so they will enter a bid war against eachother as long as you are not sitting as one of the top two with the highest bounty.
Against multiple hard AIs, you just can't afford to be messing around with pirates, especially early on. While you might be able to crush them, you spend valuable travel time either phase jumping or flying around your grav well to kill them all off.
Are you on 1.1?
If you can hold your own versus the raids from the AI and the Pirates start producing combat capital ships; Kol and Marzas. And use the pirates and the raids to level your capital ships.
Make sure to get your Akkan to Level 6 for the Armistice ability so If you ever get in a bind you can evacuate as many ships as possible. Or hold off for a minute for reinforcements.
I am playing 1.1.
Hope to try some of these new tips tonight and see what I can manage. I haven't used the Timed Explosives with my scouts but I am interested in that tactic. Also that Marza with the Incendiary Shells. I'll have to stick to colonizing with the Protev then.
Thanks for all the different ideas ! Happy Gamin!
A nice pic of Centrifuge Map...
The true map is actually rotated 90 degrees to the right and Tyr is lower left corner, enemy terran planet is lower right corner and Earth is along the top, but thats what I get for a C & P off the http://www.soasewiki.com/index.php/Main_Page
Don't be afraid to use the Akkan for colonizing, especially early game to get xp from destroying militia.
wooosh:) i think you missed the point mate.
CrowBar, when I was first playing thru the maps, I also recall having difficulty with that map (and never completed it)! So after reading your post, I went back and tried playing it again, against 2 unlocked random hards. And I won, first try. But maybe I got a little lucky (as well as, being alot more experienced now). My map had lots of neutral extractors. And, I managed to ally with both AI's, as well as, got them to bid against each other for pirates, and fight each other. All while I built up my army and economy.
While the Hard AI does cheat by getting 1.5 times our income (taxes, crystal & metal), it can be exploited in a few areas, and with time you can get ahead: 1. The AI rarely fights for neutral extractors. They are free income, and they produce more! 2. The AI is chicken; its especially 'scared/afraid' of Cap ships, and will run/retreat letting you take worlds easily. 3. At chokepoints, build defensive structures (2 repair bays & turret/s, maybe hangers) for two/three reasons: pirate attacks, AI seige frigates counter attacks, and finally potentially scare the AI into not attacking. 4. The AI will bid on the highest pirate bounty. So, if you bid first on both (say 250 on each, and 0 on yourself), they will start a bidding war against each other and ignor you. 5. The AI doesn't do trade well. 6. The AI doesn't research well. 7. If you start slow, or the AI perceives you as weak (maybe a 'smaller' fleet), it will offer easy diplomatic missions at the start.
Specific instructions, or what I did differently:
1>Buy 200 Crystal.2>Build Cap Ship Factory. (queue Marza Cap Ship)3>Upgrade Planet.4>Build All Available Resource Extractors.5>Send Cap ship to capture nearest Asteroid. (don't scuttle Cap Ship Factory) a. Build colonizer frigate, colonize nearest asteroid when clear. b. Build another colonizer frigate if neutral extractors are nearby. Send there.6>Repeat 3 & 4.7>Build Two Civil Labs. (not Mil.) Research Modular Architecture so extractors & factories cost 40% less.8>Send Cap ship to capture next Asteroid. (Keep grabbing neutrals.)9>Repeat 3 & 4. Secure this 'choke point' with defenses (and a factory) eventually. As soon as they offer diplomatic missions, if they involve giving money or resources - comply! Once you reach 50% Happiness, ask for cease fires. Also get them into a bidding war against each other for pirates. Send ships, including a few Cobalts now, down to the next planet, a terran planet (ice on your map) ajoining a new ally. Colonize. Repeat 3 & 4.10>Research Trade Ports, both Tier 1 Fleet techs and Tier 2 fleet for 3 cap ships .11>Spam Cap ships first! Take the desert adjoining your homeworld, and fortify this chokepoint. Build tradeports, making as long of a chain as possible. Now you can start to research better ships, etc..
Eventually chose one ally to declare war on, and go on the offensive. If you get the Marza to level 6, watch Missle Barrage reek havok for 25 seconds! (Before you actuate it, turn off all of its auto attacks, and stop it, so it won't get interrupted. For fun, go try it on the Pirate Base).
I just wanted to point out something about the pirate bidding that doesn't get mentioned much for newbies.. The length/strength/intensity of the pirate attack is directly porportional to the amount that was bidded. For example, if there are 1000 credits against you versus 250, the pirates will attack with a bigger force for longer. Now, consider if you enter a bidding war against the enemy, and the bounty sky rokects. And you lose the bidding war - oops... Conversely, note also, that was was bid against you (the bounty on your head) stays even if you win the bidding war. This means that when the next round of pirate attacks come by, you have to outbid even more! Personally, this is like throwing more money into a bad investment bank.. So, my personal feeling is that (esp. for newbies) unless you a) need if for tactical reasons (distraction etc), or are really in a bad spot, try not to bid on the pirates and take your licks like a man..
I wonder if there is going to be any way to actually set a fleets formation beyond tight, loose, or standard. Something like this...
Front ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Heavy Frigates, Cap Ships, Heavy Cruisers
Middle ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Light Frigates, Combat/Support Ships
Rear ^^^^^^^
Support Ships, Long Range Frigates, Carriers
Maybe the developers could add this to a patch or expansion. As of now the tight, standard or loose leave lots to be desired as far as combat mechanics. Seems as of now all battles turn into a mass swarm of ships and I often lose all my weakest ships first. Adding formations would be a cool way to expand the games combat system to make it more realistic in the sense that support would stay back instead of just huddling in a big cluster when set to tight.
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Actually, when you order a mixed fleet to a certain position, they will sort themselves out in more or less the way you described. Capitals are subdivided so that Battleship Capitals (Kol/Radiance/Kortul) are in the front, Planet Bombers (Marza/Revelation/Vulkoras) line up in the middle with Light Frigs and Flak ships, and the Carrier, Colonizer, and Support Capitals are in the rear with Carrier Cruisers, Support Cruisers (both offensive and defensive) and LRFs.
Pirate raid strength also relates to how many trade ships are ripe for picking (Cutthroats and Rogues love chasing after trade ships - sometimes the Corsairs follow them, though other times they will start attacking your defenses).
The problem is the it is not flexible enough, as long as it's an auto function with no way to alter it, there will be stupied ships that sit 1 yard outside range of some critical abillity.
The solution to this problem is to LOCK the teams before the game starts--turn diplomacy off. Then the AIs have to fight each other.
Also, consider coming online and playing humans v. AI games. It would be fun to have human teammates, and one day you might even feel ready to play humans v. humans games.
Doesn't the repair from hoshi's stack? Or is it a waste to use repair from several on a single ship that is being hammered, at the same time?
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