This was a big gripe in AOW Shadow Magic! You could kill off the AI's really quickly!
I think, I'm one of those that likes the Sauron idea. Either channel your essence into an artificat, or have it so when you die, your essence escapes and it takes a great deal of effort to regain a physical form again. Point is, I'd rather not have it be an instant game over if you die, but there should be some pretty big consequences for dying
This should work like in MoM. The game shouldn't end when your wizard dies.
I don't have a problem with it being game over if you get killed, but I also think it would be cool to be able to "cheat death" with a massively expensive spell to create a special resurrecting artifact.
If your wizard dies, his son/daughter takes over!
The system of AoW:SM ist quite good. But it can give a penalty if your hero died: your hero is resurrected after three rounds and in this time you have no production, because its chaos in your nation.
Or Dominions, where it takes a while and quite a bit of praying to get your player back.
Yes thats the best answer is some sort of penalty until someone else takes over...
...the complete ending of everything is just stupid to put it mildly in my opinion.
What I think would be the best overall solution is to have a variety of options when it comes to preserving or otherwise saving your channeler when he is killed in battle. Each choice should be permanent and have its own set of strengths and weaknesses.
For instance:
1) You clone yourself. These clones share equally in your power, your total power is determined by the combined power of each clone, regardless how far apart they are. When you take power from yourself and imbue it into your empire, the power is taken equally from each clone. When casting global spells, your power is determined by the total strength of all the clones, when fighting in a battle or casting a localized spell the power of the individual clone determines how strong he is in that endeavor. When a clone dies, his magic returns slowly over a given period of time to the others. Reliable but weak.
(if you have 100 magic, and make 3 clones, yourself and each clone will have 25 magic. You still cast global spells as if you had 100 magic, but you and each clone are only at ¼ your full power in individual battles, to clarify. When I say clones, I include the original)
2) You create a successor. In all shapes and forms, this person is a channeler, except that he has no magical abilities until you die. He then becomes you over a short period after your death, and is as powerful and capable as you were at the time of your death. The successor takes a lot of time to train however, and is very vulnerable to assassination, and could possibly even be turned against you. Powerful but possibly unreliable.
3) You cast a spell of reincarnation. This spell takes awhile to cast, and must be completed before you die. Once completed, it will activate upon death and be spent, needing to be recast for your resurrected form. Once triggered there is a small delay for it to complete the resurrection, and the results are not always as expected. You could be brought back as a ridiculously powerful butterfly, with a unique spell called “Swarm of the Monarchs”. Or maybe you get your old body back…it’s a mystery. Reliable, but not always predictable. Only Man (the race not the gender) can use this method.
4) You imbue an item with your soul. When your physical body is destroyed, you do not die, your spirit is still tethered to the world by said item. You gradually make a new body for yourself, and can then once again move about. While in this disembodied form, you can still cast spells but can no longer interact directly with the world, other then to command your empire. If an enemy manages to destroy this item you die forever, though getting it is no easy task. Reliable and powerful but still vulnerable to instant defeat. Only Fallen can use this method.
I think you can see what I’m getting at. Either way there should be some sort of power decrease for using any said method, that way choosing not to protect your channeler from death is a valid choice aswell.
Oh yes! Options are good!
In the successor way I would prefer a disciple that don't become as powerful as you were. Maybe some kind of "if the disciple become more powerful than the master then it leaves" So you have to be careful in your entitlement of your disciple.
In the item imbue thing. Why only fallen could do it? Good avatars could also use it and send a part of their power into the item.
the clone part maybe a bit too powerful.
Anyway, please devs, tell us if we're talking in the wind or if tehres a slight chance that our suggestions on "game over" have a chance to be in the final product.
Your successor idea is pretty good, it'd force you to becareful or else you might accidently lose your backup.
As for why can only fallen imbue an item with their spirit? Because it involves detaching the soul from the body. Its a form of necromancy, which is in of itself taboo, but good guys ingeneral dont like messing with souls, thats why they are good guys
And as for "clones" yes it makes you very hard to kill, however, your avatar and each of his clones are that much weaker for each copy made. So you lose your super unit advantage to some degree. If your avatar or one of his clones fights someone elses...well, you dont stand much of a chance. On the bright side, you're not defeated.
For the imbue item : the good ones could link their spirit with it, not extract their soul. If you limit the imbue item to bad people then what advantage have the good people? In a gameplay point of view it needs some balancing.
The good guys get reincarnation!
Boom you come back...the question is however, what do you come back as? hehe
I think its about equal with having an item be the end all of your existence. The spell cant be destroyed and can always be recasted, it just takes time...where as the item is there always until destroyed.
We're not biased - no way... Remember good and evil are completely subjective choices. Additionally let's not forget the all encompassing gray area.
I like the idea that your main wizard can die, and that it is so fatal as the end for the game. It makes for a more interesting game.
1) In this game you will have to prioritize very hard how to use your mana points. And if you have used it all on cities and other heroes you better protect and hide your main man good until his powers are filled up again.
2) It's the only way to implement real super duper heroes/wizards on the battlefield. There has to be a drawback on prioritizing your wizards powers like that. Less mana for civil duties, and a great risk of being killed if another battle occurs soon after.
Being forced to prioritize hard, and paying the price for your choices are important in a good strategy game! Are you willing to take great risks? Well, be prepared to pay the price for it! I also think it will be a cool game element trying to avoid your enemies when your Wizard is weak.....
The beta testers will be making the final call on this. But my opinion is that if they die, that's it.
That's my preference too, as long as the AI doesn't do something stupid and suicidal like send its Channeler into battle at the head of an army of 6 squirrels. If the AI is competent at protecting itself, then I really like the idea of it being a game ender.
My likes:
Consequences. Losing the capstone of your empire, the channeler, should mean something.
Opportunity costs. Is your Channeler worth more at the front or at the back?
Variation of strategies and game setups. If every channeler has to be a monster in battles ("y'know", he would just die otherwise) weak channelers wouldn't be viable.
Massive, demonic or divine who would be the material of legend availabe and useful even from the start of the game.
Badass hero demigods, who can't be defeated until its corpse has been salted, its high temple razed or its crypt sanctified. Unstoppable forces of destruction/righteousness.
Dislikes:
Disproportionate risk/reward. 10% chance to be out of the game, 60% to win your battle, 30 % to crush the enemy. Is that good gameplay? Ties into:
RNGod hate. No war should be decided with a few randomly generated numbers.
Lack of variety. Happiness is when different sorts of gameplay can meet each other and compete on the same battleground. I.e, Channelers with entirely different functionalities is good.
Whoa! Can you feel the power brothers and sisters?
I'd say this is where tactics come into play. When you are in the battle map using your avatar to lay waste to enemy armies, probably best to keep him near the back, where he can run if things go south.
I mean, these guys can alter the world dramatically. That means they have to be capable of taking on entire armies by themselves, so committing them to most combats (if they are strong because you've been focusing on them at the expense of empire and heroes) shouldn't be too much of a risk unless your opponent is also committing his avatar to combat. And even then it would probably take a while for them to kill each other, so the opportunity for retreat (especially if you have some teleportation spells) is always there.
Yes.
I need to be a beta tester
The thing is, if the channeler's death is end of game, what kind of choices do you have when creating your channeler on small/tiny maps? I guess no choice but have him be strong.
I also believe people will be divided on the issue, and that an option to either call him back or end when he's dead would be needed. But then we'll have to playtest it to know for sure.
Screw beta, give me the keys to the alpha-testing machine! Mwa ha ha ha ha!
Word!
I would prefer that it is not a definitive game over if your channeller dies. Better would be if he turns into a ghost and has to recreate his body some turns later (in his tower), e.g. by using up a grotesque amount of mana points. Also, in any case he should be weaker, and the empire morale should take a major beating. It has to really hurt if your avatar dies, but at the same time, if it all ends when he dies it would be just too risky (=too much chance for a long game on an immense map) to use him in battle. What would happen then is that you revert to saving every turn just to be sure (in single player) and restarting as soon as the battle goes against you. Not very good for a strategy game.
I'm with gorgon. This is the closest thing to a sequal to master of magic we are going to get anyway right? So I vote it should be done the way master of magic did it. You are somehow nerfed and need to get yourself back to life via spell-o-return.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
